Next Elite Progression.

[Dadnir.5038]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

So our ideas need to keep these philosophies while being different from the current 3 play styles of core, reaper, and scourge?

Well, objectively there is still room for quite a few different e-specs that follow the principles of those philosophies, even if thematically or from a player point of view it's a bit disappointing.

• Defensively, there is room for damage transfer to a pet just like there is room for differents use of barriers.
• The necromancer still have plenty of conditions that are thematically fitting and could be used as the focus of an e-spec (poison, weakness, slow and even the infamous confusion)

That said,

Must have moderate to considerable levels of aoeThis isn't part of the necromancer's philosophy, a lot of the core tools affect single targets. Anet is just overdoing it on reaper and scourge because being bad at cleaving was necromancer's main concern before HoT.

[ZDragon.3046]

@derd.6413 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Deadvillager.1956 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:SNIIIIIPSo when we really start looking at ideas that could make necro different as far as playing there wont ever be something thats just a better version of something core kit kinda already has.

That feels a little too bland of a description to me. IMO, every espec up until now took something from the core necro, twisted it and put it back. Reaper is not just a better spite, it is spite on steroids with intimidating and (almost) devastating blows added in. Scourge is a curse traitline focused around longtermed wells that can pulse damage, support, corrupt or all of the above at the same time (kitten balance team make up your mind!). This in turn makes all the elite specs feel very coherent and fun to combine, in contrast to other classes that are stuck with effective but weird feeling trait combos.

Well thats kind of the point i was making there should be nothing wrong with elite spec ideas such as vampire etch even though we already have a blood magic line. There should be no reason to argue that its not a good idea just because it would be a better version of x or y. But there seems to be alot of that going around.

As for the next elite spec, we might have the freedom to either grab the next traitline and blend it with literally anything we can think off OR we think of ways to introduce completely new mechanics for necro by abusing the shroud. Stealth: use life force to turn invisible for a maximum of x seconds, time spent invisible increases your damage. Mobility: use life force to create death nodes around you, use life force to teleport between death nodes. Blocks: use life force to gain x buff on abilities F1-F5. Instashot: use life force to turn into a death tornado exploding once your life force reaches zero, damage amplifies with the time spent in the death tornado. Its really easy, someone just has to put time into it. And there is people getting paid for exactly that.

Well the idea is that some people are pretty much saying cant do that cause blocks dont fit into necro, stealth simply wont fit into necro while i dont agree with that its just the counter argument that I often get tired of hearing. We can stick to necro philosophies and people wont like them when they are strong resulting in their culling and if we consider things out side of the box from necro philosophies we simply put "cant have it because of that reason"

I find that especs that get added (at least the well deigned ones) ar least try to put an interesting spin on core concepts which i don't see in forum suggestions.

"The same but better" rather then "the same but diffrent" (if that makes sense)

Well for something to be the same but different you need to give it something somewhere that it otherwise is not good at or simply never had good angle on doing.So looking at @"Dadnir.5038" here when I think about this.

We must keep necromancers core philosophy. This means in short

• no hard blocks
• no mobility increases
• no additional evades
• no stealth
• no break target
• is condition dependent even on power builds
• Is vulnerable to crowd control
• Must have moderate to considerable levels of aoe
• Must use Hp to sustain itself rather than damage avoidance of any kind even if tools are not given to increase this effect to the equality of damage avoidance tools
• Must apply a plethora of conditions including cripple / weakness
• Must have scattered Boon corrupt
• Must be slow this includes any weapon that comes from an elite spec (must be slower than all other professions that can use that same weapon type)
• Self boon generation is limited to might, protection, a bit of swiftness (again)

And this is just to name a few of the obvious ones.

So our ideas need to keep these philosophies while being different from the current 3 play styles of core, reaper, and scourge?

no,that'd be unreasonable but you have to put more thought into it then "let's add stealth because jumpscares, lol"

Well i don't think anyone ever said it like that here in fact people pointed out pretty legit key factors of killers and slashers having the power to literally vanish from the perspective of their victims regardless if a jump scare happens shortly after or not its a pretty common thing in most movies for the slashers and or killers to remain hidden even some times hiding in plain sight from their victims. So i don't think anyone was specifically saying "Because jumpscares" For some ideas when it comes to ghostly themes, vampires, even what could have been considered in reapers case as an out of the box idea the idea could easily work. :astonished:

[ZDragon.3046]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

So our ideas need to keep these philosophies while being different from the current 3 play styles of core, reaper, and scourge?

Well, objectively there is still room for quite a few different e-specs that follow the principles of those philosophies, even if thematically or from a player point of view it's a bit disappointing.

• Defensively, there is room for damage transfer to a pet just like there is room for differents use of barriers.

This would require that the pet not die instantly to anything else that might hit it which would invalidate the whole point of its properties but thats something would be left for anet to decied. We know for a fact none of the current minions would work well with this idea at least in pvp or wvw because any of them can be 1 or 2 hit by often what can be consider chip/cleave damage.

• The necromancer still have plenty of conditions that are thematically fitting and could be used as the focus of an e-spec (poison, weakness, slow and even the infamous confusion)

I was not worried that the list of conditions is too short but worried said elite specs would focus to much on conditions. Ideally it would be nice to get elite specs were it can easily be built to be power or condition and work well from both sides based on player preference instead of being locked toward more of one side than the other.

Also slow and poison when i want those even if its for a power build.

That said,

Must have moderate to considerable levels of aoeThis isn't part of the necromancer's philosophy, a lot of the core tools affect single targets. Anet is just overdoing it on reaper and scourge because being bad at cleaving was necromancer's main concern before HoT.

Now we have an crazy amount I thought reaper had a good amount in its own right and scourge just pushes the limit to the max yet i still feel like we will see more wide spread stuff in the future.

[derd.6413]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Deadvillager.1956 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:SNIIIIIPSo when we really start looking at ideas that could make necro different as far as playing there wont ever be something thats just a better version of something core kit kinda already has.

That feels a little too bland of a description to me. IMO, every espec up until now took something from the core necro, twisted it and put it back. Reaper is not just a better spite, it is spite on steroids with intimidating and (almost) devastating blows added in. Scourge is a curse traitline focused around longtermed wells that can pulse damage, support, corrupt or all of the above at the same time (kitten balance team make up your mind!). This in turn makes all the elite specs feel very coherent and fun to combine, in contrast to other classes that are stuck with effective but weird feeling trait combos.

Well thats kind of the point i was making there should be nothing wrong with elite spec ideas such as vampire etch even though we already have a blood magic line. There should be no reason to argue that its not a good idea just because it would be a better version of x or y. But there seems to be alot of that going around.

As for the next elite spec, we might have the freedom to either grab the next traitline and blend it with literally anything we can think off OR we think of ways to introduce completely new mechanics for necro by abusing the shroud. Stealth: use life force to turn invisible for a maximum of x seconds, time spent invisible increases your damage. Mobility: use life force to create death nodes around you, use life force to teleport between death nodes. Blocks: use life force to gain x buff on abilities F1-F5. Instashot: use life force to turn into a death tornado exploding once your life force reaches zero, damage amplifies with the time spent in the death tornado. Its really easy, someone just has to put time into it. And there is people getting paid for exactly that.

Well the idea is that some people are pretty much saying cant do that cause blocks dont fit into necro, stealth simply wont fit into necro while i dont agree with that its just the counter argument that I often get tired of hearing. We can stick to necro philosophies and people wont like them when they are strong resulting in their culling and if we consider things out side of the box from necro philosophies we simply put "cant have it because of that reason"

I find that especs that get added (at least the well deigned ones) ar least try to put an interesting spin on core concepts which i don't see in forum suggestions.

"The same but better" rather then "the same but diffrent" (if that makes sense)

Well for something to be the same but different you need to give it something somewhere that it otherwise is not good at or simply never had good angle on doing.So looking at @"Dadnir.5038" here when I think about this.

We must keep necromancers core philosophy. This means in short

• no hard blocks
• no mobility increases
• no additional evades
• no stealth
• no break target
• is condition dependent even on power builds
• Is vulnerable to crowd control
• Must have moderate to considerable levels of aoe
• Must use Hp to sustain itself rather than damage avoidance of any kind even if tools are not given to increase this effect to the equality of damage avoidance tools
• Must apply a plethora of conditions including cripple / weakness
• Must have scattered Boon corrupt
• Must be slow this includes any weapon that comes from an elite spec (must be slower than all other professions that can use that same weapon type)
• Self boon generation is limited to might, protection, a bit of swiftness (again)

And this is just to name a few of the obvious ones.

So our ideas need to keep these philosophies while being different from the current 3 play styles of core, reaper, and scourge?

no,that'd be unreasonable but you have to put more thought into it then "let's add stealth because jumpscares, lol"

Well i don't think anyone ever said it like that here in fact people pointed out pretty legit key factors of killers and slashers having the power to literally vanish from the perspective of their victims regardless if a jump scare happens shortly after or not its a pretty common thing in most movies for the slashers and or killers to remain hidden even some times hiding in plain sight from their victims. So i don't think anyone was specifically saying "Because jumpscares" For some ideas when it comes to ghostly themes, vampires, even what could have been considered in reapers case as an out of the box idea the idea could easily work. :astonished:

Make it mechanicly fit thematicly you can make everything fit

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Derd, what would be your idea? What would you like to see?

[derd.6413]

@dceptaconroy.7928 said:Derd, what would be your idea? What would you like to see?

i don't really care as long as it's good. (and i'm not that good at comming up with things)

maybe some health sacrifice mechanic? idk

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Gotya. I'm also in the camp of: as long as it good.

[derd.6413]

@dceptaconroy.7928 said:Gotya. I'm also in the camp of: as long as it good.

yeah, the issue i mostly have is that most suggestions are so uninteresting and thoughtless.

Like if you want to play a vamp necro just use blood magic and if you want to play a ghost use soul reaping and spectral skills. If you think they aren't strong enough then suggest a buff, if you think some aspect is missing suggest that for espec material and make it distinct from the base specs.

for example If you want to add a possesion mechanic or something, that's good give it a voodoo theme or something and you've got the basis for a great espec but don't give me soulreaping 2 necrotic boogaloo.