Full Counter: please increase CD to 15 seconds in PvP

[mortrialus.3062]

@witcher.3197 said:

@JVJD.4912 said:

@witcher.3197 said:

@JVJD.4912 said:and here i thought the duration of the spell needs to last longer cause most of the time its gets wasted

Warriors have always sucked in pvp and are hardly represent in the legendary category, i think we can give them this niche to bridge that gap

Always sucked in PvP? lol

Warrior was meta many many times in PvP, just has a habit of going back and forth between gamebreaking and useless.

Go look at the statistics for past pvp seasons in and tell me how many warriors were there in the legendary category? you can also dig the old forums posts in those seasons about how a warrior in your group has been viewed as a instant loseDon't know which game you are playing but its definitely not gw2

You said "always sucked" - for me "always" goes farther back than 1-2 seasons. Warrior was meta defining on several builds in the past - hambow, cele axe, shoutbow, gs/hammer, then with HoT condi longbow later gs mace. I love how warrior becomes bad for 1-2 seasons then gets the most broken build in the game and everyone's like "LOL IT'S FINE WAR WAS ALWAYS BAD WE NEED THIS".

kitten off dude.

You listed the best builds warriors have had over the years, but all of those builds have been consistently worse than every other classes' best build. If you think GS/hammer or GS/Mace were "meta defining" I don't really know what to tell you.

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Spellbreaker does not get punished for missing FC, the evade frames are to thank for that. The worst thing to happen is you're both reset in the engagement. FC is at most on an 8 sec CD that takes one bar of adrenaline; you don't even need to turtle someone for something that readily available to come back.

You are punished because you whiffed your most important attack. Same with any other attack. Fighting Games have survived for years with characters that have counter attack skills just like full counter without them breaking the game from Street Fighter, to Blaze Blue, to Dead or Alive to Smash Bros.

I seriously hope you are not trying to compare punishing skills in fighting games like Tekken to this game. They are so vastly different that while the concept of punishing is something that can be done, the way they interact isn't even comparable. You are not punished for missing a FC; whiffing is not punishing because that took no input from another player to bring a negative effect for what you did. Counter attack skills are one thing, but the idea that this specific one is punishable is another, and it's not punishable. Not getting the effects of burst skills or damage etc because you missed a skill is no punishing because you don't lose things, you just don't gain them; big difference. If you were hurt when you whiffed FC, then that would be different, but all you lose is a bar of adrenaline, which is just a resource cost.

I'm actually not comparing punishing skills where you use a skill and the animation if missed leaves you vulnerable to attack. That doesn't exist for almost any skill in GW2. I'm comparing it to specific counter attack skills where a character enters a counter attack state and if they are attacked in that period they avoid damage and attack back. They're in far too many fighting games to count.

Your comment is a bit silly. It's like saying "If you waste a dodge roll, it's not punishable you just wasted a resource cost." If you waste a dodge you're advertisign to your opponent that it's okay to attack you now for 10 seconds I believe? If you fail to land a full counter you advertise to your opponent that it's okay to attack you now for 6-8 seconds give or take some adrenaline.

The issues I have with full counter are the AoE daze component.

The way you talk about Warriors getting hurt and taking damage from missing full counter is also ridiculous.

[Lighter.5631]

@Loop.8106 said:

I'm once again going to use guardian as an example, because it's the class I know the ins and outs of. Guardians rely on their boons for both damage (Retal) and sustain (Aegis + Protection + Fury). These all offers counterplay in the form of Boon-rip. Meaning, Necros, Spellbreakers and Sigil of Annulment. (Even Domination mesmers if people for some reason would run that). We have very limited Stability which makes us susceptible to CC's, therefor we must assign our utilities to Stunbreaks. (Judges Intervention for example.)

you are definitely not susceptible to CC's..by using aoe blind, block, stab chain, also F3 blocks a tons of CC even with stab being stripped( these are also the ways to counter spellbreaker boon rip), trap also limit enemy's engagement..renewal focus is also a get out of jail free card that's anti CC.now what's a class that's really susceptible to CC's? a warrior without pulsing stab

you do not want to go in to a team fight that's more then 1v1 without pulsing stab..

anyway, i do wish anet listen to you and nerf the hell out of defense line, so i can see what anet will do after that, im so curious, because defense line is so essential or you are food against any competent team

[ukuni.8745]

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@ukuni.8745 said:i got to page 2 of reading befor i decided to post this but yea.Leave FC alone, except make it only hit the target that triggered it, its the surviveability that makes SB strong not full counter, mind you full counter is kitten easy to trigger and anyone who says it isnt is just a really bad bandwagonner who likes to spam as much as the people hes saying is triggering it.

That would make Full Counter useless. If you go to use Full Counter on the target in melee, but someone at range or a minion triggers it (e.g. You go to Full Counter a Spellbreaker, but a Ranger arrow hits you)., then you've wasted Full Counter because the player who triggered it is not in range.

well i guess you better not spam full counter so you can make sure it lands on the right target kinda like how so many warriors are saying other classes need to not spam to beat it funny that isnt it.

[Aomine.5012]

@roamzero.9486 said:I would make the CD 10s across the board (WvW included), reduce the range, and make the stab/resistance it gives only apply when it hits an enemy.

No need to nerf the PVE version honestly.Not like anyone will take a Spellbreaker in PVE anyway, so at least let them faceroll Open-world with Full-Counter.

[Mikeskies.1536]

@ukuni.8745 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@ukuni.8745 said:i got to page 2 of reading befor i decided to post this but yea.Leave FC alone, except make it only hit the target that triggered it, its the surviveability that makes SB strong not full counter, mind you full counter is kitten easy to trigger and anyone who says it isnt is just a really bad bandwagonner who likes to spam as much as the people hes saying is triggering it.

That would make Full Counter useless. If you go to use Full Counter on the target in melee, but someone at range or a minion triggers it (e.g. You go to Full Counter a Spellbreaker, but a Ranger arrow hits you)., then you've wasted Full Counter because the player who triggered it is not in range.

well i guess you better not spam full counter so you can make sure it lands on the right target kinda like how so many warriors are saying other classes need to not spam to beat it funny that isnt it.

I don't spam Full Counter. And using Full Counter in a group fight, you cannot really choose who procs it if three people are attacking you at once. It's not really possible to make sure the right target procs it.

[Mutaatti.2789]

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@ukuni.8745 said:i got to page 2 of reading befor i decided to post this but yea.Leave FC alone, except make it only hit the target that triggered it, its the surviveability that makes SB strong not full counter, mind you full counter is kitten easy to trigger and anyone who says it isnt is just a really bad bandwagonner who likes to spam as much as the people hes saying is triggering it.

That would make Full Counter useless. If you go to use Full Counter on the target in melee, but someone at range or a minion triggers it (e.g. You go to Full Counter a Spellbreaker, but a Ranger arrow hits you)., then you've wasted Full Counter because the player who triggered it is not in range.

That is called strategy. Ranger hits you, for triggering FC, and melee friend or pet comes and doesnt take impact on FC. That would make warrior atleast killable instead of being immortal 1v1 against anything else than scourge (another OP class).

[Sykper.6583]

@Mutaatti.2789 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@ukuni.8745 said:i got to page 2 of reading befor i decided to post this but yea.Leave FC alone, except make it only hit the target that triggered it, its the surviveability that makes SB strong not full counter, mind you full counter is kitten easy to trigger and anyone who says it isnt is just a really bad bandwagonner who likes to spam as much as the people hes saying is triggering it.

That would make Full Counter useless. If you go to use Full Counter on the target in melee, but someone at range or a minion triggers it (e.g. You go to Full Counter a Spellbreaker, but a Ranger arrow hits you)., then you've wasted Full Counter because the player who triggered it is not in range.

That is called strategy. Ranger hits you, for triggering FC, and melee friend or pet comes and doesnt take impact on FC. That would make warrior atleast killable instead of being immortal 1v1 against anything else than scourge (another OP class).

It would also get rid of that spec entirely. Or at the very least in compensation if you want it to play like this the effects of 'landing' a FC still go off if this scenario happens.In other words, if target is in melee and triggers FC, they have to dodge FC to avoid taking the damage, CC and having the effects of FC occur (meaning you can reduce SB's survival by fighting and dodging in melee with it). If the target is at range and triggers FC, since they are at range FC still stops that hit but FC doesn't AoE/CC anyone, FC effects like Guard Counter STILL occur regardless. Ergo you turn the fight into an attrition with the SB. I would argue this can lead into some higher level tactical play where you can either try to beat SB down from range and deal with his defensive FC effects triggering always, or take a risk to dodge his FC at melee and deny him the buffs.

This keeps SB in the teamfight for survival while cutting down the AoE pressure it puts out while everyone mindlessly spams. You happy?

Edit1: I'm personally of the opinion that there are other methods to deal with SB that don't completely change it like this solution, but I wanted to throw some feedback considering A) this is probably a mechanical mess to work with and apply and B) probably not going to happen, we are gonna see number changes instead cause its easier.

[terrorshard.3854]

I just want soulbeast to be not trash

[Mikeskies.1536]

@Sykper.6583 said:

@Mutaatti.2789 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@ukuni.8745 said:i got to page 2 of reading befor i decided to post this but yea.Leave FC alone, except make it only hit the target that triggered it, its the surviveability that makes SB strong not full counter, mind you full counter is kitten easy to trigger and anyone who says it isnt is just a really bad bandwagonner who likes to spam as much as the people hes saying is triggering it.

That would make Full Counter useless. If you go to use Full Counter on the target in melee, but someone at range or a minion triggers it (e.g. You go to Full Counter a Spellbreaker, but a Ranger arrow hits you)., then you've wasted Full Counter because the player who triggered it is not in range.

That is called strategy. Ranger hits you, for triggering FC, and melee friend or pet comes and doesnt take impact on FC. That would make warrior atleast killable instead of being immortal 1v1 against anything else than scourge (another OP class).

It would also get rid of that spec entirely. Or at the very least in compensation if you want it to play like this the effects of 'landing' a FC still go off if this scenario happens.In other words, if target is in melee and triggers FC, they have to dodge FC to avoid taking the damage, CC and having the effects of FC occur (meaning you can reduce SB's survival by fighting and dodging in melee with it). If the target is at range and triggers FC, since they are at range FC still stops that hit but FC doesn't AoE/CC anyone, FC effects like Guard Counter STILL occur regardless. Ergo you turn the fight into an attrition with the SB. I would argue this can lead into some higher level tactical play where you can either try to beat SB down from range and deal with his defensive FC effects triggering always, or take a risk to dodge his FC at melee and deny him the buffs.

This keeps SB in the teamfight for survival while cutting down the AoE pressure it puts out while everyone mindlessly spams.

You happy?

Edit1: I'm personally of the opinion that there are other methods to deal with SB that don't completely change it like this solution, but I wanted to throw some feedback considering A) this is probably a mechanical mess to work with and apply and B) probably not going to happen, we are gonna see number changes instead cause its easier.

But this would make it impossible for Spellbreaker to time Full Counter in a group fight. You plan on using Full Counter on a melee attack, then a stray arrow hits you a millisecond sooner. Full Counter itself needs a slight range reduction and Last Stand and Revenge Counter need slight nerfs. Anything else is overkill.