Offense/attack instacast skills should not exist

[mortrialus.3062]

@Fortus.6175 said:

@Zephoid.4263 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:Just giving everything a cast time would create a more clear rock-paper-scissors system, and also slow the game down (therefore would make it boring)

Holy hell how do people think that actual skill based combat would be boring? How is having no reactable elements to damage a positive portion of this game in any remote sense? It also completely invalidates the weakest boon you can provide in this game, aegis. I had a really interesting fight vs a holo the other day where he went into prime light, i popped aegis, but his kitten particle accelerator instant cast super high velocity ability broke the aegis before the prime light beam. Garbage gameplay removing counterplay ability. If anything, instant cast damage abilities lead to piano playing spam combat where using them on CD is braindead obvious (see scourge).

That they give instant-cast abilities to stealth classes is also a kitten crime. Dropping 60+% of your hp and being CC'd because a quick combination of instant cast abilites is not good gameplay. The best you can do is randomly dodge and hope to god you get the timing right on the 6+s of stealth.

Unfortunately Prime Light is unblockable so aegis wouldn't have saved you (1 min cooldown too). but then again, holos are just overperforming in general.

@Bazsi.2734 said:Just giving everything a cast time would create a more clear rock-paper-scissors system, and also slow the game down (therefore would make it boring)

Disagree: see For Honor, Overwatch, LoL, most popular PvP games in general really....

Most of these games have long gone away from instant cast and broken stealth (see Evelynn during the first year or so of LoL) and the few times they exist, they are usually weak or a utility ability (see the amount of times they have had to rework Ryze (like 6 times by now?) due to having instant cast root, which they have finally taken away with the lastest patch and replaced it with having to first land a setup skill that has travel and animation time, which gives a very short lived debuff that ONLY THEN can you land the "instant" root on the enemy).

I can go on plenty more of changes, like how stealth works in WoW and the inability of any class to 100 --> 0 you within the duration of a CC skill, or how For Honor prides itself in having a reactive game play full of mindgames and opportunities to counterattack, etc etc...

Different games, sure, but notice how there seems to be a coorelation between popularity of a PvP and the ability of the game to display the player's skills, rather than their choice of class/build they play.

I mean, imagine being able to kill a person with 2.4k toughness and 18k hp from 1500 range and stealthed (and having the tools to remove the only thing that threaten them; revealed) all within the duration of a daze: (might not be "instant cast" but when it comes from stealth and that far away while having a extremely small window for reaction, it might as well be instant)

Since Prime Light Beam doesn't have a projectile to avoid, it's a massive crit and blowout, starting the cast should put revealed on the Holosmith similar to how Death's Judgement operates. Otherwise with a 6 second stealth window on Toss Elixir S and otherwise no tell the best you can do is try to guess. And if you guessed correctly they can still cancel cast before the cast finishes and try again after burning one of your evades.

[Bazsi.2734]

@Fortus.6175 said:

@Zephoid.4263 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:Just giving everything a cast time would create a more clear rock-paper-scissors system, and also slow the game down (therefore would make it boring)

Holy hell how do people think that actual skill based combat would be boring? How is having no reactable elements to damage a positive portion of this game in any remote sense? It also completely invalidates the weakest boon you can provide in this game, aegis. I had a really interesting fight vs a holo the other day where he went into prime light, i popped aegis, but his kitten particle accelerator instant cast super high velocity ability broke the aegis before the prime light beam. Garbage gameplay removing counterplay ability. If anything, instant cast damage abilities lead to piano playing spam combat where using them on CD is braindead obvious (see scourge).

That they give instant-cast abilities to stealth classes is also a kitten crime. Dropping 60+% of your hp and being CC'd because a quick combination of instant cast abilites is not good gameplay. The best you can do is randomly dodge and hope to god you get the timing right on the 6+s of stealth.

Unfortunately Prime Light is unblockable so aegis wouldn't have saved you (1 min cooldown too). but then again, holos are just overperforming in general.

@Bazsi.2734 said:Just giving everything a cast time would create a more clear rock-paper-scissors system, and also slow the game down (therefore would make it boring)

Disagree: see For Honor, Overwatch, LoL, most popular PvP games in general really....

Most of these games have long gone away from instant cast and broken stealth (see Evelynn during the first year or so of LoL) and the few times they exist, they are usually weak or a utility ability (see the amount of times they have had to rework Ryze (like 6 times by now?) due to having instant cast root, which they have finally taken away with the lastest patch and replaced it with having to first land a setup skill that has travel and animation time, which gives a very short lived debuff that ONLY THEN can you land the "instant" root on the enemy).

I can go on plenty more of changes, like how stealth works in WoW and the inability of any class to 100 --> 0 you within the duration of a CC skill, or how For Honor prides itself in having a reactive game play full of mindgames and opportunities to counterattack, etc etc...

Different games, sure, but notice how there seems to be a coorelation between popularity of a PvP and the ability of the game to display the player's skills, rather than their choice of class/build they play.

I mean, imagine being able to kill a person with 2.4k toughness and 18k hp from 1500 range and stealthed (and having the tools to remove the only thing that threaten them; revealed) all within the duration of a daze: (might not be "instant cast" but when it comes from stealth and that far away while having a extremely small window for reaction, it might as well be instant)

I love when people mention other games as examples, because I can just ignore that part. I mean Transport Tycoon doesn't have a stealth system so why does Guild Wars 2 has to have one?

So about instant casts in general: I would have a problem if you could 100-0 someone by just relying on them. No help/buffs from allies, just you alone stacking modifiers and maybe approaching in stealth. That really has no counterplay apart from passive procs. For example on WvW you can oneshot someone from stealth with Malicious Backstab instantly, without warning. That's not okay, nothing about WvW balance is okay. (Maybe remove PvE gear from the gamemode?)However, the death-breakdown you linked... I wouldn't even call it burst, it indicates a setswap and there are kneeling/standing skills in it, possibly done by 2 thieves. Also being out in the open when there is an enemy DE around is just asking to get bursted down. So that is a totally fair outcome, you being deleted in seconds.

And yes the window to react is really small sometimes. This is a fast paced game, people with average (and even more so below average) reflexes can't get really good at it. I doubt I could climb back into the top 50 anymore, I'm getting older and slower aswell.

Oh and just one more thing:

@Zephoid.4263 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:Just giving everything a cast time would create a more clear rock-paper-scissors system, and also slow the game down (therefore would make it boring)

Holy hell how do people think that actual skill based combat would be boring? How is having no reactable elements to damage a positive portion of this game in any remote sense?

Holy hell how do people think that actually slowing down a game would make it skill based?

[Swagg.9236]

You know what a really cool gap closer option would be? The raptor leap. Or the rabbit super jump. Or a griffon swoop. Imagine if this game had actual movement tech and things that used WASD instead of relying on scripted garbage which has zero tech outside of esoteric map knowledge that let's people instantaneously noclip through terrain and onto a selected target at the press of a button.

@Crab Fear.1624 said:I'm gonna go ahead and get this out of the way:

Steal is not getting a cast time.

o im laffin