Guardian Hammer is useless

[Black Bandit.9425]

13 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK, but what's the premise to improve it? It's certainly not because it's a useless weapon. It most certainly has a use and people that know what that use is and how to use it effectively get GOOD use from it. 

I get your argument, I'm not saying its completely useless it has its "niche". Can we argue its not widely used? There are plenty of threads that express this. Most likely due to the fact its not fun to use. Other weapons definitely fill their roll and are fun to use at the same time. Just want to Hammer be that as well. NOT saying make it op, just good on its own. But I understand if thats the least of the Devs issues as there are many other pressing matters.  

Edited August 6, 2021 by Black Bandit.9425

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Black Bandit.9425 said:

I get your argument, I'm not saying its completely useless it has its "niche". Can we argue its not widely used? There are plenty of threads that express this. Most likely due to the fact its not fun to use. Other weapons definitely fill their roll and are fun to use at the same time. Just want to Hammer be that as well. NOT saying make it op, just good on its own. But I understand if thats the least of the Devs issues as there are many other pressing matters.  

Sure, it's probably not widely used. I mean, I don't think we can conclude not used because not fun because that's dependent on the player, not the design. Honestly, I think hammer needs some attention, but not because it's not fun, but because the play on it is very one dimensional with the overloaded AA. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK, but what's the premise to improve it? It's certainly not because it's a useless weapon. It most certainly has a use and people that know what that use is and how to use it effectively get GOOD use from it. 

 

lol no. Hammer is not useful at all. 

 

wvw: not used. Zergs need ranged AOE spikes, which hammer does not give. Roamers need mobility, reliable burst, and defensive utility, which hammer does not give. 

pvp: not used. All the skills are too clunky to use effectively on real players. GS deals more dmg more easily and has more utility. 

open world pve: not used. dps is pitiful. weaker AOE than GS/sword/scepter. CC is irrelevant since no breakbars and mobs die too fast anyways. 

endgame pve: not used. dps is pitiful. Other specs provide perma prot with bigger radius and groups that struggle will CC will just take more revs/chronos. If somehow u cannot change comp then u just go FB with daze on axe2 and u will deal more breakbar dmg than with hammer while dealing more dmg and providing more utility. 

 

For any realistic situation where u might think hammer is useful, I can provide an alternative weapon that is more useful in every way. 

[Black Bandit.9425]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure, it's probably not widely used. I mean, I don't think we can conclude not used because not fun because that's dependent on the player, not the design. Honestly, I think hammer needs some attention, but not because it's not fun, but because the play on it is very one dimensional with the overloaded AA. 

Let's agree to disagree, but I believe if it were fun or useful you'd see more of it than other weapons...which isn't the case. Hammer just needs another look more than just AA.

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

 

lol no. Hammer is not useful at all. 

Sure, from your narrow POV, that's true. From broader perspective, that's wrong and I'm not going to argue with you why. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

19 minutes ago, Black Bandit.9425 said:

Let's agree to disagree, but I believe if it were fun or useful you'd see more of it than other weapons...which isn't the case. Hammer just needs another look more than just AA.

 What's fun is subjective and it has its uses, even if they aren't as prolific as other weapons. Not 'fun' and 'not useful' are not reasons to change hammer because one is subjective and the other just isn't true. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

36 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure, from your narrow POV, that's true. From broader perspective, that's wrong and I'm not going to argue with you why. 

Sure, from your biased POV, ur correct. From a factual perspective, that's wrong and I'm not going to waste time arguing with you. 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Hogwarts Zebra.8597

[Obtena.7952]

7 minutes ago, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

Sure, from your objective POV, ur correct.

Yes, that is correct ... I am (with a slight correction) because how useful something is depends on MANY things, including the player using it. Despite your rhetoric, I can assure you some players use this weapon because they find it useful to them ... and others find it fun to use. To think otherwise is a biased.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

28 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yes, that is correct ... I am (with a slight correction) because how useful something is depends on MANY things, including the player using it. Despite your rhetoric, I can assure you some players use this weapon because they find it useful to them ... and others find it fun to use. To think otherwise is a biased.

Yes, that is correct... how useful something is depends on many things, and hammer fails to accomplish any of them, no matter the player using it. Despite your passive aggressiveness, I can assure you that players use this weapon solely because they find it enjoyable, not for any gameplay benefit. To think otherwise is biased. 

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

how useful something is depends on many things, and hammer fails to accomplish any of them

That simply doesn't make sense. Even players finding hammer enjoyable to use fulfills a purpose of 'usefulness'. After all, shouldn't that be a primary reason to make build choices when the game is designed around allowing players to playing how they want to? I mean, if you want to argue it's not useful, you better pony up a definition of what you mean. Seems to me your definition, whatever it is, is simply too narrow to be an honest assessment of hammer here. 

 

The best part of this is it doesn't even matter. If 'not useful' is a compelling reason to change it, it's not unreasonable to think it would have been changed to be 'useful' SOMETIME in the last 9 years ... but it hasn't. It's also not the case that Anet hasn't given hammer attention either ... So what's happening here? 

 

What's likely here is that your definition of 'not useful' doesn't fit any criteria that Anet would use to decide to change the hammer. 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That simply doesn't make sense. Even players finding hammer enjoyable to use fulfills a purpose of 'usefulness'. After all, shouldn't that be a primary reason to make ANY choice when playing how you want to? I mean, what is your definition of 'useful' here? Seems to me your definition, whatever it is, is simply too narrow to be honest. 

 

The best part of this is it doesn't even matter. Do you think 'not useful' is a compelling argument for Anet to change it? how long has it been 'not useful'? If 'not useful' was a reason to change it, it's not unreasonable to think it would have been changed SOMETIME in the last 9 years.

Something is useful if there is a tangible benefit to using said thing. There is no reason to run hammer atm over another weapon, so it clearly is not useful. It may be fun, but being fun is different from being useful. 

 

If a significant portion of the population wants hammer changed, then yes Anet will change it. The problem right now is not enough people enjoy hammer enough to want it changed--which isn't helped by ppl saying "hammer is useful" when in reality, it is "useful" only based on a technicality. Its only use is to satisfy a sentimental attachment towards hammers--nowhere is it actually useful in terms of gameplay

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

Something is useful if there is a tangible benefit to using said thing. There is no reason to run hammer atm over another weapon, so it clearly is not useful. It may be fun, but being fun is different from being useful. 

 

If a significant portion of the population wants hammer changed, then yes Anet will change it. 

There is a tangible benefit to using hammer. You just don't know it, or willing to admit it. I know plenty of people that use the hammer, and not just because it's 'fun'. So you are clearly not in touch with your narrow view of its 'usefulness'. 

 

Don't assume Anet changes things just because 'significant' portions of the population want it changed. You don't know if that's true. You have no idea how many people want it changed, or how that affects Anet's decision to change things.  The fact here is ... you just don't like how it works and your rhetoric reflects that in your denial of its usefulness to the people that do use it ingame. 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

There is a tangible benefit to using hammer. You just don't know it, or willing to admit it. I know plenty of people that use the hammer, and not just because it's 'fun'. So you are undeniably incorrect there. 

 

Don't assume Anet changes things just because 'significant' portions of the population want it changed. You don't know if that's true. 

What is the tangible benefit to using hammer? All you've been saying is "hammer is useful" without providing a single example of where it actually is useful. 

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Acyk.9671 said:

Please enlighten us about this tangible benefit hammer allegedly offers

 

Why? So you can argue it's not real or doesn't count? How about this ... you tell me why you DON'T think it has a benefit because THAT'S the premise for the 'not useful' argument being used to push the change being suggested in the thread.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Why? So you can argue it's not real or doesn't count? How about this ... you tell me why you DON'T think it has a benefit because THAT'S the premise for the change being suggested in the thread.

Hammer being literally nonexistent in any kind of endgame content is evidence enough. 

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

What is the tangible benefit to using hammer? All you've been saying is "hammer is useful" without providing a single example of where it actually is useful. 

Ironically, I can say the same about you. How is it NOT useful? That's YOUR claim to push change. 

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

Hammer being literally nonexistent in any kind of endgame content is evidence enough. 

No it's not ... it doesn't need to be present in endgame content to be useful to players. 

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No it's not ... it doesn't need to be present in endgame content to be useful to players. 

Ah, so your definition of "useful" is something u can use for a few hours, then once u progress through the game it quickly becomes something to be discarded? 

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Acyk.9671 said:

Why? So you can argue that my concerns are not real or don't count?

Listen ... if people are going to claim hammer 'isn't useful' to justify a change to it, the challenge is for THEM to demonstrate that. Otherwise the claim is nonsense (or dishonest, you choose)

Edited August 7, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

Ah, so your definition of "useful" is something u can use for a few hours, then once u progress through the game it quickly becomes something to be discarded? 

Well, that would make sense if that's what I said ... but it wasn't so ...

 

If you are going to try to tell me things I didn't say, I'm just going to tell you that hammer is useful to lots of players that use it, WHERE EVER they do so. 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, that would make sense if that's what I said ... but it wasn't so ...

 

If you are going to try to tell me things I didn't say, I'm just going to tell you that hammer is useful to lots of players that use it, WHERE EVER they do so. 

Clearly your refusal to provide any evidence can only mean you lack any evidence. I will not continue this discussion unless u can answer one simple question: what is one single situation where hammer is better than another weapon choice? 

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[Obtena.7952]

8 minutes ago, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

Clearly your refusal to provide any evidence can only mean you lack any evidence. I will not continue this discussion ...

There isn't an honest discussion with someone that just invents things I say that I didn't or make absolute statements that are false anyways. You're refusal to acknowledge that the hammer is useful to players that choose to play it WHEREVER they choose for WHATEVER reason they choose to do so is evidence enough that you aren't willing to engage in a discussion in the first place. If you can't bring yourself to acknowledge the use of the hammer by the people that choose to use it by your constant insistence it's 'useless', you aren't a good advocate of changing the hammer.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Obtena.7952