Some classes don't have damage issues, just survivability problems

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

They could've fixed alot of what was wrong with Mirage by making their "tradeoff" -300 Expertise, because most of what was going on with the subclass was broken synergies with Core traitlines, mostly revolving around the application of conditions, because while balanced on Core Mesmer (which is almost kind of bad at it), it became OP when applied to the Mirage.

Mirage subclass mechanic is also busted. It should've instead been that they get up to three dodges like Daredevil but require/destroy a clone on dodge, so they have manage clones similar to Chronomancer and spend them on Ambushes instead of just Shatters. Right now they've basically just removed the entire point of playing Mirage since they're literally a one-trick (dodge) pony.

But what do I know, I still play two Chronos in 2020 because I never enjoyed Mirage even at its peak.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Monkey See.1498 said:Mesmer/Mirage is 100% hurting on the damage front. Unambiguously the least impactful class in terms of combat efficacy. Removing Deadshot+Wanterers and gutting all the expertise amulets which even among condition builds only Mesmer was really the only profession making heavy use of was a -50% damage output nerf on top of all the damage nerfs to things like Sharper Images and Duelist's Deception.

yep, P4 lost about 70%-80% of its condi damage :Dthats why nobody plays dueling anymore, vulnerability from dueling provides more damage ten entire dueling traitline now, and it also removes boons

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"Hannelore.8153" said:They could've fixed alot of what was wrong with Mirage by making their "tradeoff" -300 Expertise, because most of what was going on with the subclass was broken synergies with Core traitlines, mostly revolving around the application of conditions, because while balanced on Core Mesmer (which is almost kind of bad at it), it became OP when applied to the Mirage.

Mirage subclass mechanic is also busted. It should've instead been that they get up to three dodges like Daredevil but require/destroy a clone on dodge, so they have manage clones similar to Chronomancer and spend them on Ambushes instead of just Shatters. Right now they've basically just removed the entire point of playing Mirage since they're literally a one-trick (dodge) pony.

But what do I know, I still play two Chronos in 2020 because I never enjoyed Mirage even at its peak.

this is lazy solution, it hurts both power and condi.sharper immagesimmob on swordweakness on PBslow on ATcripple on GS.

[bravan.3876]

@Daishi.6027 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Also in case of Mirage you cannot just give 2 dodges back, Mirage would probably be op then (even on power).

I agree Condi needs to be reworked, but frankly I disagree agree regarding power.

Yes it hit's hard but currently Power Mirage lacks the ability to secure kills compared to more than half the roster, apart from it's same GS combo that has always been part of mesmer. However, unlike it's core counterpart Mirrage cannot afford to slot chaos with it's reliance on dom and dueling. Going this glassy and taking lines for pretty much full damage, giving up it's ability to hide it's burst; should kill

much more reliably

than it currently does. In addition it currently makes these attempts at such a greater risk than what is afforded to more than half the roster. Plus slotting chaos does not offer it enough utility or sustain to make up for the damage loss, and it's the same story for inspiration. Either way it's a dead-end build that functions mediocre at best. To me it literally feels like playing a thief with base 8 ini, which sure I can still kill... and surely people do what they can with the worst of handicaps. But it is in no way fair or balanced.

Also we're talking about damage that comes at the cost of using your evade offensively; this should be impactful otherwise there is no point. Plus the damage coming from the player and not ramp from clone spam offers more than enough counterplay and ease to avoid, which is part of the condi problem.

I think here is no need to have a dispute over that, it is easy to manage: Give Mirage 2 dodges back, rework the condi ambushes and then see how both playstyles are doing. Needed fine adjustment in terms of nerfing or buffing dmg or effect duration/stacks on ambushes from the Mesmer itself and from clones can be easy and fast done. That is the beauty of Mirage having that many tools for fine adjusting, makes the nonsense sledge hammer one dodge change look even more stupid.

Important is, that the gs ambush doesn't get too strong, so that dodging pure defensive is already rewarding enough and so that simple gs ambush spam by itself isn't rewarding enough to make high pressure or even win the fight. Ofc it should be impactful to worth an offensive dodge but also not too much impact, that simple gs ambush spam is all a Mirage needs to do. It needs to be worth an offensive dodge as part of a burst combo not by just spamming it for itself only (few exceptions like cleave or target finishing dmg application ofc). This is the equilibrium margin, i am talking about all the time, the margin dodge trait rewards need to hit to be as active and as skilled as possible.