bravan.3876

Yes Tyc smash little pink men. Go rampage throw big rock at tiny pink man for big hurt, hurr hurr. 190 IQ Warrior mains unite 6k Rush with quickness to hit the skill visibly out of range and 1 sec before the animation can keep up is the way dude. 190 IQ Warrior in your dreams!

nade holo is the type of innovation we want to see from players-CMC 2020 Ok i failed the quote, i admit! :joy: I actually couldn't decide between laughing and crying at that point. Bunker Chrono was also such a great innovation, just like every other braindead playable broken meta build in the last years. It is just the usual "find the mistake in Anet balance"- move ppl are better at then in actually increasing their skill lvl.

Reaper is used by good player and good player tend to win. Nade Holo is what Anet wants to see ppl come up with. Get rekt and l2live with it.

The gamemodes are nice it is the bunker wars and braindead hard cc spam meta that is boring. And it is boring in conquest as well.

I like your self-harm troll posts :joy: Yes it is just not ok that Mesmers have a value from a dodge trait on every single dodge like every other class in the game. I also think that Mesmer needs to pre use other skills to create a clone before dodging or has to spec into another trait like DE to make it work on every dodge is not disadvantage enough for the annoying pink class. Mesmer should invest 2-3 dodges or maybe 2-3 other traits to get a reward from a dodge trait on every single dodge! Also agree to the weakness on mirrors, they are imo not bad enough already, and the weakness might hit in 1 out of 10 mirrors on more than zero targets, clearly op! Cripple as major gm trait is just too much of a reward, running with torment is already unhealthy enough, fully with you here too. /s Your other points are not even that crazy tbh. Makes no sense that simple cc spam gets higher reward than interupting a target in Domination (they rly should switch the more stacks to the interrupt trait and the lower stacks to the cc spam reward trait) but Anet prefers lower skill ceiling stuff, its a casual game though. For SoI it makes more sense to exclude f4 completely from the cd reset and leave the others f1-f3 to get fully resetted. With just a cd reduction a Mesmer can less tactical work with. Now you can time the SoI use when you rly need the shatters back. With only cd reduction you have even less to think about timing in terms of when to use SoI and in terms of when to use the shatters. Without fully reset SoI is just another cd reduction trait you just have to click yourself at some point with lower tactical uses than it is now. But neither of it should happen without giving Mirage its second dodge back.

The only list flandre/miaz could seriously have more than 10p is either a wintrade or a troll ranking.

At least 5 years of braindead meta melted every brain and skill

I agree and when you re-check the thread you never see me jumping and flaming on other ppl ideas while i get jumped and flamed for at least 50% of my ideas because ppl accuse me of hating Condimes and that i try to nerf it into the ground as an undercover agent or something. They even jump on ideas do not include any nerfs. They flame ideas they obviously do not even understand. It is ridiculous.

You can say that about literally every single trait for Mesmer though. Duration is not important, what is important is that it procs Ineptitude. Ineptitude still provides condition damage. It still can provide condi damage. Which is why it's meta for PvE Condi builds. The fact that alternative utility surpasses the condi damage provided by the spec (Due to nerfs) doesn't negate the fact that the spec still provides condi damage. 75s CD (35s PvE) not 90. Though, the stat boosts are not on a cooldown. No. Illusion is the one spec that provides enough condi damage increase to justify over running other utilities or sources of damage in PvP (I.e. Domination is used for the extra Vuln stacks and Boonrip) Just like happens within Illusions and Mirage specs, where Condi damage traits are passed over for more impactful utilities (I.e. Master of Fragmentation instead of might from Phantasmal Force or lulScepter trait. Elusive Mind instead of Infinite Horizon due to nerfed Ambushes) Not to mention that i said 1 (111111) at max 2 condi dmg traitlines. Means it doesn't even matter if ti is 1 or 2 for my point about mechancial trade offs in traitlines when traiting into elites. Condi builds for Mesmer have no trade off in terms of dmg when going for elites because they in general only have 1 or max 2 traitlines for that on core. Then where are your suggestions to bring condi output on core traitlines instead of making full of counter combo mechanic on elite ? The topic of this thread is to give alternatives to the one dodge nerf not to buff core Mesmer. We try to find solutions to make Condi Ih Mirage playable with 2 dodges without it being a problem in Anets eyes anymore what it obviously was. Anet wants trade offs, Anet wants reduced defensive and offensive power from mc. And that is what i am trying to do and what you need to do if you want any suggestions in this document to even be considered by Anet. Anet doesn't even accept the replacement of a core traitline for elite traitline as trade off. I do that at least but it is a fact that Condimes has lower trade off than power builds when traiting into elite. I try to solve this problem with a dmg transfer and not a nerf. A transfer that leads to more Mirage specific gameplay, more different to core, that is what Anet wants elites to be anyway. Not an upgrade from core just another playstyle. We talk about mechanics here and not pls buff the power lvl of my main mimimi and what is viable or not.Why Condi Ih was more of a porblem and a more passive style than power has 2 reasons: the worse ambush design on condi weapons and the weaker trade off in traitlines in terms of dmg. Both leads to Condimirage not rly need to use Mirage specific gameplay (ambush gameplay) in an active way (offensive dodges) enough to balance out mc.That is the topic and not buffs or nerfs. The power lvl in terms of how much dmg power and condi IH Mirages can do AFTER the mechanical rework is easy to adjust by Anet then and don't need to be discussed here. This can't be too hard to understand! your main problem is having an opinion and instantly working under the assumption that you are right.this is not " mirage with ih and 2 dodges post" its -> "Mesmer changes suggestions for CmC"mesmer includes all specs @"Jazz.4639" said:To give you guys a perspective and hopefully reduce the confusion about what is the topic for the first document. my plan is to make several and for that shorter and more focused documents to specific topics. Doc 1. Mirage/ chrono mechanic issues. Alternative nerfs to mc instead the one dodge deletion, some minor chrono suggestionsDoc 2. Mesmer class balance issues. Core weapons skills and core traits, rework/ buff & nerf suggestionsDoc 3. we can find a topic together, from what you guys wrote until now i think the first 2 documents would cover most points you made until nowYou rly need to learn to read

You can say that about literally every single trait for Mesmer though. Duration is not important, what is important is that it procs Ineptitude. Ineptitude still provides condition damage. It still can provide condi damage. Which is why it's meta for PvE Condi builds. The fact that alternative utility surpasses the condi damage provided by the spec (Due to nerfs) doesn't negate the fact that the spec still provides condi damage. 75s CD (35s PvE) not 90. Though, the stat boosts are not on a cooldown. No. Illusion is the one spec that provides enough condi damage increase to justify over running other utilities or sources of damage in PvP (I.e. Domination is used for the extra Vuln stacks and Boonrip) Just like happens within Illusions and Mirage specs, where Condi damage traits are passed over for more impactful utilities (I.e. Master of Fragmentation instead of might from Phantasmal Force or lulScepter trait. Elusive Mind instead of Infinite Horizon due to nerfed Ambushes) Not to mention that i said 1 (111111) at max 2 condi dmg traitlines. Means it doesn't even matter if ti is 1 or 2 for my point about mechancial trade offs in traitlines when traiting into elites. Condi builds for Mesmer have no trade off in terms of dmg when going for elites because they in general only have 1 or max 2 traitlines for that on core. Then where are your suggestions to bring condi output on core traitlines instead of making full of counter combo mechanic on elite ?The topic of this thread is to give alternatives to the one dodge nerf not to buff core Mesmer. We try to find solutions to make Condi Ih Mirage playable with 2 dodges without it being a problem in Anets eyes anymore what it obviously was. Anet wants trade offs, Anet wants reduced defensive and offensive power from mc. And that is what i am trying to do and what you need to do if you want any suggestions in this document to even be considered by Anet. Anet doesn't even accept the replacement of a core traitline for elite traitline as trade off. I do that at least but it is a fact that Condimes has lower trade off than power builds when traiting into elite. I try to solve this problem with a dmg transfer and not a nerf. A transfer that leads to more Mirage specific gameplay, more different to core, that is what Anet wants elites to be anyway. Not an upgrade from core just another playstyle. We talk about mechanics here and not pls buff the power lvl of my main mimimi and what is viable or not.Why Condi Ih was more of a porblem and a more passive style than power has 2 reasons: the worse ambush design on condi weapons and the weaker trade off in traitlines in terms of dmg. Both leads to Condimirage not rly need to use Mirage specific gameplay (ambush gameplay) in an active way (offensive dodges) enough to balance out mc.That is the topic and not buffs or nerfs. The power lvl in terms of how much dmg power and condi IH Mirages can do AFTER the mechanical rework is easy to adjust by Anet then and don't need to be discussed here. This can't be too hard to understand!

You can say that about literally every single trait for Mesmer though. Duration is not important, what is important is that it procs Ineptitude. Ineptitude still provides condition damage. It still can provide condi damage. Which is why it's meta for PvE Condi builds. The fact that alternative utility surpasses the condi damage provided by the spec (Due to nerfs) doesn't negate the fact that the spec still provides condi damage. 75s CD (35s PvE) not 90. Though, the stat boosts are not on a cooldown. No. Illusion is the one spec that provides enough condi damage increase to justify over running other utilities or sources of damage in PvP (I.e. Domination is used for the extra Vuln stacks and Boonrip) Just like happens within Illusions and Mirage specs, where Condi damage traits are passed over for more impactful utilities (I.e. Master of Fragmentation instead of might from Phantasmal Force or lulScepter trait. Elusive Mind instead of Infinite Horizon due to nerfed Ambushes)Not to mention that i said 1 (111111) at max 2 condi dmg traitlines. Means it doesn't even matter if ti is 1 or 2 for my point about mechancial trade offs in traitlines when traiting into elites. Condi builds for Mesmer have no trade off in terms of dmg when going for elites because they in general only have 1 or max 2 traitlines for that on core.

You don't get the point, the point is, there is only 1 at max 2 offensive traitlines (Duelling/ Illusion) where you even find condi dmg related traits. And it doesn't matter if a Domination/ Duelling /Illusion power build is viable for conquest or not. Fact is, for full dmg boost you need all 3 traitlines on power while condi per se doesn't have 3 dmg traitlines available. That is why condi can switch between different utility or sustain lines way easier without giving any dmg up they otherwise could trait for. It is again a mechanical discussion you try to make into a power lvl and what is viable discussion. Learn to stay on the topic. The point is, that condi builds mechancially by traitline design always run with only 1 at max 2 dmg traitlines because they simply don't have more. With other words: Condibuilds have a weaker trade off in terms of dmg when specing into elite traitlines. That makes turning Mirage into something that needs to do different stuff than core to apply the same dmg way harder than on power. That is why i suggested a dmg transfer by stat penalty: The lower base dmg on shatters on weapons compared to core is supposed to be fully compensated by more potent condi ambushes with higher ability to boost back shatters and weaponsskills with offensive dodges. It is not a nerf it is just a transfer to make playing with Mirage specific mechanics more necessary also for Condimirage. The only nerf will be the vita penalty which is directed to replace the nerf to the dodge. And that was not even my idea, it is mortrialus consept. We are here to give Anet alternatives to the nerf they already did, so we give alternative nerfs to replace the one dodge change, which just do not contradict the whole Mirage mechanic. I told you often enough, that just getting 2 dodges back and not giving up anything for it will not happen. Also in this thread it was written pretty clear that Anet wants to nerf mc in its offensive and defensive power. So we have to look for ways to do it without making Condi IH mirage unplayable but ideally add some more skill ceiling to it.

How unconstructive and narrowed you want to act in a forum is up to you dude. There is no penalty for narrowness in the big internet. Good is, that i don't need your agreement or understanding either and that you are not the one deciding anything. Means hopefully you will never be a kind of person gets hired by any game company. That would be even worse for the game then current Anet devs. I am open for constructive criticism and suggested improvements to my idead when they use facts or at least logical conclusions based on knowledge and/ or facts. What most of you just do when it comes to me is biased and destructive anti-behavior. Ofc that will not convince me from anything. But do what you want to do, i will just ignore you. Play the clown childish boy if you prefer that over a constructive discussion.

Viquing seriously, it doesn't matter why ppl choose what they choose, fact is, there are only 2 traitlines giving clearly offensive power (dmg) for condi, if we ignore the offensive boons in Chaos. Means even when you want to play a pure glass condi build with 3 offensive traitlines you will not find a 3. Domination never rly gave anything to condi builds (at least not until they changed vulnerability to work also on condis). Domination atm is used for the utility (boonremove) not for any condi pressure. And it is used in a hybrid build because for a pure condi build Domination would be less useful than any of the other traitlines. That is just a fact. Means while power builds can go for Domination/ Duelling/ Illusion and get lot of power dmg out of each of them, do condi builds at max need 1-2 traitlines ro maximize dmg from traits. And a pure condi build use Illusion/Duelling Mirage, even today. Means in terms of offensive power, condi dmg builds do not need to give anything up when using Mirage or Chrono instead of 3 coretraitlines in terms of dmg. There is no room for discussion.That is also why old condi IH Mirage could go for only one offensive traitline and use Mirage/ Chaos and still had more dmg than a Powermirage with 2 offensive traitlines. "Hey guys what if Mirage had less health, and less power damage, and less, condition damage. That's a good idea right." kitten lol -1 dodge-vitality-power damage-condition damagePerfectly balanced, as all things should be You guys are big brain again. First of all you get +1 dodge that is what the consept d is about. -vita was not my suggestion i just added the dmg penalty to transfer burst shatter dmg to ambush might/vulnstacks, in a way that a Mirage using his 2 dodges also offensive has same dmg then core just not from shatters/ weapons alone (as it is on core) but more from comboing ambushes with shatters and weaponskills. Means the dmg penalty is just a transfer from dmg not a dmg nerf. I explained that good enough and you still don't get it. Kind of sad. bruhI am not sure if this is only a knowledge problem or if it is an iq problem making you miss simple logic and facts or if being over-afraid is just limiting your brainwork.When you guys could stop being biased and over-afraid that i might want to overnerf your golden horse Condimirage than you maybe could start to talk constructive to me instead always that defensive. I am here for brainstorming not to get flamed for every single idea ppl get over-afraid because they worry that it means they will not be carried enough anymore. When i say the stat penalty should be a dmg transfer and not a dmg nerf by giving condi ambushes more boost potential for the (lower compared to core) base dmg on shatters/weapon skills then i mean it like that and it is nothing that would even nerf any dmg potential from Condimirage. It should just force Condimirage more into offensive dodging to maximise its dmg by comboing shatter and weaponskills with ambushes. The dmg Mirage lose by stat penalty (power and condistats) should be given back to ambushes, so that a Mirage can reach a decent amount of dmg near to core but it is forced to use one of the main mechancis from Mirage for that (ambushes) what also will reach the goal of making Mirage more of a sustain dmg dealer instead pure shatter burst compared to core. I rly don't get why this idea gets so much hate while it doesn't even include any nerf when you look at it while using your brain and think deeper than only"oh shit stat penalty... must be a nerf from Bravan because we are certain Bravan hates Condimes". Narrowed, rly narrowed.

"Hey guys what if Mirage had less health, and less power damage, and less, condition damage. That's a good idea right." kitten lol -1 dodge-vitality-power damage-condition damagePerfectly balanced, as all things should beYou guys are big brain again. First of all you get +1 dodge that is what the consept d is about. -vita was not my suggestion i just added the dmg penalty to transfer burst shatter dmg to ambush might/vulnstacks, in a way that a Mirage using his 2 dodges also offensive has same dmg then core just not from shatters/ weapons alone (as it is on core) but more from comboing ambushes with shatters and weaponskills. Means the dmg penalty is just a transfer from dmg not a dmg nerf. I explained that good enough and you still don't get it. Kind of sad.

As said, i think you talk staff ambush and autoattack dmg down too much and you literally do that with almost all condi related skills, but whatever. Also when you as one of the very few Mesmers mains had problems to hit staff and scepter ambushes decently, you maybe should rethink how you position yourself and your clones. More than one Mesmer main (just as me as multiclass player playing it myself from time to time) already told you, that hittting those ambushes never were any issue for them/me. And: Even after the nerfs staff ambuhs is still pretty potent by itself. The moment Mirage has 2 dodges back it would be a very stong pick for the ambush alone (with IH). Btw based on above thoughts i also would recommend to add a condi dmg stat penalty (and maybe a power stat penalty but this one lower than the condi stat penalty because of above thoughts) in addition to the vita penalty suggested in consept c. That way condi builds have to give up the condi burst potential from core shatters in exchange for dmg-boost effects on Mesmers own ambushes, that will create more need to prepare shatter and weaponskill bursts with an ambush to stack might and vulnerability before. Could @"mortrialus.3062" agree to that addition? Imo only Powermirage rly needs to give up some burst potential on shatter combos and overall dmg on weaponskills (by either losing Illusion, Duelling or Domination traitline) compared to core. The dmg and might/vulnstacks on condi ambushes ofc then need to be potent enough to compensate for the stat penalty, means a Condimirage using dodges offensive to push the shatter dmg on burst combos will have around the same dmg than core when played well mechanically. Just that the dmg is not only from shatters but from ambushes dmg+buff/debuff+shatters/weaponskills buffed by ambushes. With adding a power stat penalty it might be not necessary anymore to nerf the dmg lvl from power ambushes when giving 2 dodges back. This stat penalty should not lower the Mirages condi or power dmg, it should just transfer the dmg from shatters itself to the Mirages own ambushes in terms of buff/debuff effects+the dmg part). So that the Mirage is forced into offensive dodges to make shatter and weaponskill combos as potent as on core. Greatsword Mesmer ofc would maybe also prefer more dazes on their ambushes, the problem is what i already said to Jazz: By now i think there was a reason Anet only developed one weapon like sword and the other weapons were only about dmg. Means it might be not balanced to turn a second weapon into something like sword. Adding buff/ debuff effects (best way is to use might/vuln just like on gs and not only condi dmg or duration buffs) to create the need to dodge offensive to buff shatter and weaponskills by a pre-used ambush is maybe the only way (but see above my answer to Jazz). No, i don't want monogameplay, i just want other playstyles to be skillful and interesting to play too. I never said delete Condimes and nerf it into the ground, i just say it needs to be mechanically harder to play. Not necessary weaker in its power lvl (it should still be viable but only when played well, not for every noob to be carried 2 divisions above his actual skill lvl as from old CI Mirage or current Holo/ Condirev). Scepter atm is a channel not a cast and that is why it is that long. The problem with no casttime or very short casttime on single hit ambush skills is, that Anet obviously want ambushes to be interruptable at some point and not 100% covered by the dodge frame. But to compensate for the longer casttime (compared to Engi rifle) the projectile speed could be made like instant (or as Jazz suggested make scepter the no projectile ambush and give it a cast animation on the char which can be interrupted for 1/4 secs after the dodge frame but then the skill reward will hit instant on the target when not interrupted or dodged. Means no traveltime at all (like berserker warrior rifle f1 skill but with pre animation on the char and when the animation is finished an instant hit speed when the warrior finally shoots). That would just replace the instant part from the casttime to the traveltime. Could you agree to that?

That is around the dmg on one target gs ambush does on the interrupt mirage build, what still dodges offensive on gs (the channeltime on gs is also 1 second, both staff and gs can hit more than one target). I just tried it and often didn't do more than 1,6k with one gs ambush (no clone) on npcs and golems in the mists. Means gs Mirage do not rly dodge for the ambush dmg itself in the first place, they dodge offensive for the buff and debuff effect to have overall more dmg on other skills after that. Dodge dmg traits doing up to 3k is more than enough reward, or you want such broken stuff like on Holo atm? When the pure dmg reward gets too high it will not give any incentive to dodge offensive either because the dmg is so high that dodging pure defensive and hitting the op dmg here and there as passive side effect would be rewarding enough. The pure dmg part needs to hit a specific equilibrium where it is neither too high (because then offensive dodging is not necessary to get enoguh reward out of the dodge trait) but also not too low (what would makes the reward not worth an offensive dodge). Means up to 3k dmg + buff/debuff effects is already pretty good. When staff gets more of the buff/debuff stuff to create the need to combo it with other skills (shatters/ weapons) then it will create the incentive to dodge offensive. When the dmg without ambushes on Mirage isn't already high enough, that it doesn't need to use ambushes offensive to have enough dmg then it will work. Deleting the condi dmg from normal clone autoattacks will also lead to more need to use dodges more offensive for ambushes to have enough dmg. Just as it already is on Powermirage. A Powermirage not dodging offensive will not even come near the dmg of core (in terms of burst anyway but also over time). While old Condi IH Mirage even had enough dmg to use another defensive traitline (Chaos) and still had enough or even more dmg than a condi Coremes using Illusion and Duelling (another point btw, for a full dmg build Condimes only needs 2 traitlines, while Powermes needs 3 to compete with core in terms of dmg). Do not hesitate to come up with a staff rework that would give you enough incentive to dodge offensive for. What needs to happen to staff for you then? Just saying my suggestion will not do it is easy. So what would do it in your view? It is rly hard to discuss with someone always downtalking stuff and think nothing that has counterplay is viable. You even defended old CI as not broken. You understate the value from condi builds and skills a lot in my view. For example yes scepter 3 got nerfs, but it still does good dmg. Just as scepter and staff ambushes are better than you try to make them look like. @"Jazz.4639" @viquing.8254 I also miss how superspeed or quickness would create the incentive/ need to dodge offensive? Those are effects don't need specific timing, they are always useful and also not strong enough to give offensive dodges enough value (it would be enough for the Mirage to get them as passive side effect when dodging an attack). Also blind is a defensive effect that does not create the need to dodge offensive or to time them well just for the blind (you just dodge the attack you need to dodge and be happy that you don't need to dodge the next attack because blind is passively applied too). It just will higher the defensive uptime from a dodge. The difference to daze is, that daze also has an offensive value and when you can combine it with vulnerability stack traits as Powermirage can and even have another restriction to interrupt to get additional value, then you have a very high incentive and need to dodge offensive to time those dazes for more burst combo dmg or for an interrupt. I understand the concerns that immob, slow and chill are maybe op for ambushes but on the other side in particular immobilize creates a need to dodge offensive to prepare a shatter or scepter 3 burst. And when it is well animated with decent but not too fast projectil speed (like Engi rifle 2) and not too long duration then it will have enough counterplay. With that scepter will be the sword equivalent with main purpose utility condition (but immob instead daze). Means i would make scepter ambushes make one hit skill, applying immob in additon to confusion dmg on Mirages own ambush, no additional dmg on clones ambushes. Staff just gets more buff/ debuff main purpose and less dmg purpose comparable to gs. Replacing fury with vulnerability stacks seems to make sense for that. Axe: Who said condi weapons cannot have the same utility effect than a power weapon? There is no need tryharding to find another utility effect that might or might not work well. I think axe can get a daze just like sword (maybe that would even make Ineptitude an interesting trait again. Also condi builds want to use boonremove trait Vicious Expression or the more defensive trait PB don't need to use sword for it, a weapon with zero condi dmg application). Turning axe into beams instead projectiles would make sense here. Other possibilities: Axe can just get buff/debuff boni and become a second equivalent to gs in its mechanics. Axe could also become some kind of hybrid between gs and sword. Means it gets more buff/debuff effects (might/vulnstacks) but less than gs and also gets a short cripple or superspeed in addition. Clones would only apply the utility/debuff effects.

Yes ofc getting a clone daze after a dodge is an additional defensive effect, but you have to trait into that (atm even a major gm trait). Instead you could just give a trait that gives a short thoughness buff after each dodge, or gives prot or aegis or a trait that in general buffs your stat sustain, so you can just facetank the skill that would be delayed by a clone daze. We have those kind of traits also on other classes (look a Warrior even gets rewarded for eating a cc with high thoughness bonus for quite some time), they are even more passive and with even less counterplay. Also you forget, that Mesmer has pretty high downsides for being forced to have illusions up for offensive and defensive plays. Often those costs (double opportunity of interrupting Mesmers abilities before the reward from the illusion procs, cleave of illusions before they can do anything etc) overshine the good effects of having npcs around (confusion from clones, bodyblock ability etc). And having clones and phantasms who are out being independent from cc that is on the Mesmer is like a basic mechanic.It also means you can interrupt Mesmer actions twice. You can interrupt the illusion generating skill on the Mesmer or when you fail that you can also interrupt (or cleave) the illusion itself. No other class can be interrupted twice from opponents before the reward of the skill even procs. No other classes weapon skills can be countered by cleaving npcs before they do anything. Also you forget, that IH is already the worst dodge trait in the game. The Mesmer either needs to generate clones with other skills before dodging to even have an effect from IH with each dodge, or they have to use another trait (DE) to make sure each dodge gets the traited value from IH. No other class needs 2 traits to have a reward on each dodge from their dodge trait. That is why i think it is kind of balanced to allow Mesmers to have utility effects on clones also working when the Meswmer itself is stunned. It already has several trade offs. You will just add another one which also kills skill ceiling in addition. The only thing that needs to be avoided is, that this illusion generated dodge reward during stun doesn't become too strong and doesn't neutralize the applied cc to the Mesmer completely (like a stunbreak on dodge would do). Means yes, a blind on dodge, a short immob, a short daze on clone ambushes (i mean it is a 1/4 sec daze it is laughable, the interrupt you can avoid by stabi, aegis etc or just not casting until the clone dazed you. Means Powerblock is rly no argument here, it is no problem to avoid getting interrupted by any sword clone when Mesmer dodges. It is simply a missplay from the opponent when you get interrupted by that slow and well animated leap animation. For example a Warrior will still get plenty hits on the Mesmer out of his 2 secs stun, around 1 sec he can just fully dmg the Mirage and even when not, the offensive power of the Mirage and its ability to move out of danger zone are still neutralized by the hard cc, so there is still value of hitting the cc and there is still a skill ceiling and a reward for the Mirage to dodge the cc itself). Means: Ofc a Condimirage that can dodge while stunned and avoid some follow up (and IH will just increase the delay for the opponent to hit the Mesmer, in case of daze or blind) is kind of ok in terms of balance, but not that he also barely has costs in his offensive power by being able to counterburst with high condi or power dmg pressure from clones during being stunned. Also: When you make condi ambushes equally to power ambushes, means more utility based and with creating the incentive/ need to dodge also pure offensive then the Mirage will not have that much dodges left to dodge while being cced in the first place. Means you limit the mc power in 2 ways with the condi ambush rework already (no counterburst dmg on clone ambushes anymore + less defensive dodges from the need to dodge offensive also on Condimirage), there is no need for more restrictions to IH as one of the weakest dodge traits in the game due to Mesmers class mechanic, what then also kills skill ceiling instead adding it, slows down the gameplay and makes it more clunky. Don't forget that you have to invest a whole traitline to get access to mc. Just my 2 cents.

They destroy duelling condi output : sharped image killed. Which trust it or not, was the key under the letting clone autoing output.Otherwise you would see same passive build as prepatch.About ambushes, you will never hit with chaos ambushes without old CI or by burning blink or jaunt and scepter ambushes were obsiously telegraphied. Mean if an opponent stay between 3 clones (easy to brain thoses IA.) and get hit by a 3 clone setup + visible animation ambush, maybe he should get hurt no ?You really trust they will give some shatter or weapon output ? Me not. The probability to have follow is around 0. Tha'ts why with dps boost we, at last, didn't have dead traits. Yes i think that, they always nerf and buff things around. When it turns out that Mirage or Condimesmer in general has not enough dmg to compete, then they will buff dmg numbers at some point. But that is a different story to a mechanical rework of Mirage mechanics to balance out mc and give Condimirage the same incentive to dodge pure offensive for combos (combos incl ambushes as preparation for more dmg) and timed utility effects depending on opponents moves. That is simply needed to balance out mc (and it is the easiest way and the most logical way, because the mechanic already exist and is tested live on Powermirage).It will not even be any different for current Condimirage because they neither use IH nor any ambush to apply condis atm. That is why i don't get why you guys are so afraid that the mechanical change leads to less dmg on Condimirage. It will not even affect current Condimirage builds at all. The only change will affect current Condimesmer builds condi dmg output (Core, Chrono and Mirage) is the deletion of condi dmg on normal clone autoattacks and that is supposed to be compensated by giving that dmg back to shatters.

You again talk about power lvl and amount of dmg, i talk about mechanical changes, what has nothing to do with how much condi or power dmg will be on the ambush mechanic in the end. I talk about that the mechanic on condi ambushes need to be more similar between power and condi to balance out mc on condi as well. And that means that clone ambushes have either zero (like sword) or very few dmg (like gs) and be more about either buff/debuff effects like gs or utility condis like sword. Meanwhile condi ambushes are still mainly about dmg and nothing else, while even the clone ambushes were almost as potent or even potenter than the mesmers own ambushes. They also were that potent, that shattering them was inferior dmg to let them live for the ambush dmg. They also still include nothing with enough impact except dmg, means nothing a Condimirage could work with more active and differently timed from pure defensive dodging and nothing that gives the incentive to combo ambushes with other skills like weapons/ shatter to give those more value. You also again miss, that current Condimirage doesn't even use ih and for that has zero clone ambushes. It also only use Mirages own sword ambush and that not even for the purpose of applying condis. So you compare apples with oranges anyway. Hmm,You argument is that power mirage was never a problem. Which has more to do with the fact that it wasn't viable than about the inherent mechanics.And that is wrong. I explained long and often enough why and i think doing it again will not make you finally understand.To everything else, yes ofc Condimes needs to have condi dmg on shatters and weaponsskills as useful follow ups. But that is not a Mirage problem that is about how Anet can revert senseless core nerfs (like overnerfing Sharper Images because of the overperformance with scepter ambush, or nerfing shatter condi dmg because of ambushes) after the successful rework of condi ambushes to something equally to power ambushes.After that mechanical rework which will balance out mc by creating higher opportunity costs and harder decision making in dodge management and force Condimirage more into offensive dodges to time specific utility effects depending on the opponents moves and use offensive dodges to combine ambushes to prepare and support shatter and weaponskill dmg combos you then can tweak the dmg numbers on ambushes, weaponskills and shatters to a balanced lvl. It is the same than for Powermirage which maybe needs some little tweaks on ambushes too when getting 2 dodges back. Because 2 dodges increase also the offensive power from ambushes by making ambushes available more often. But that is up to Anet to fine adjust. But that mechanical rework needs to happen to balance out mc and it has nothing to do with how much dmg Condimirage will have in the end (important is just that clones have no or only very little dmg anymore, equally to power and that Condimirage gets a higher incentive to dodge more offensive). And btw it is not true that condi ambushes were never the problem. Ofc they were, the clone ones at least (scepter and staff most of all). Otherwise the current no-ih Condimirage would still have the same condi dmg and would still play the same weapons because clone normal autoattacks didn't get nerfed

That would kill some active outplay options from sword where you want to get a daze at specific times without the mesmer needs to leap and change position himself, for example dodging with a sword clone up after swaping to gs for a gs2 burst into the clone daze. Those are skillful combos have counterplay. Deleting those options would lower the skill ceiling from sword mirage.It is also an unnecessary change when you make also condi clone ambushes more about utility effects and not dmg (what they should have been since pof release anyway, similar to what i want for ranger pets), means a mirage who dodges some follow up while being stunned cannot counterburst with clone dmg anymore anyway. removing 1 specific combo from unplayable build is a small price to pay, not to mention you can trigger ambush and cancel it with weapon swap to do the combo, or simply trigger gs ambush and then do the gs combo. awkward but doable It is not only this one combo, it was just one example. You are the Mesmer main you should know about how to play Powermirage near its pretty high skill cap more than me.And what you say is not a solution considering how telegraphed and slow the gs2 combo already is, sword ambush also is not stowable after it started and starting gs ambush then stow before going for the gs2 burst will most likely not even be enough time to hit gs2 near the daze from the clone leap, not to mention that even my 90 years old grandma would dodge or simply outrun that. I also disagree to how much value you give to those combos. Deleting them is a big price considering we want a more skillbased game and not a less skillful game. Also as mentioned it is unnecessary when clone ambushes are more about utility instead dmg what they should be anyway for other reasons too. Dumbing down Powermirage to nerf the power lvl from condi ih without even adding skill ceiling to condi ih mechanic is not a good option and exactly the same what we have with the one dodge nerf. Just because you are not able to play Powermirage near its skill cap (and probably are afraid that condi ih Mirage gets a higher skill floor/ ceiling too) doesn't mean it is something this game should delete to become even more noobfriendly. I dont mean stowing, I mean weapon swapping, depending how IH is coded it could trigger the moment you start casting, so you could instantly weaponswap.making combo take extra 0,05s or 0,1s would make a difference but as it is right now the build is not good anyways, might as well make it better.AND if it gains sustain damage it might not be forced into one trick pony bursts it has and be able to actually chew through peoples hp piece by piece instead of doing only predictable bursts. And at this point the burst could be left even more predictable and be a thing you use against enemy that you KNOW has nothing left to defend himself, its what you do 50% of the times now anywaysEven on weaponswap it does a big part of the leap animation and locks you into that. Anyway as said, it is not necessary to change ih that way when you make clone ambushes mainly about buff/debuff or utility condi effects and not dmg, how it should be for other reasons anyway (to create higher opportunity costs and harder decision making in dodge management for example to balance out mc). That already prevents Condimirage from being able to counterburst with clones while being stunned itself. Dumbing down Powermirage to deal with Condimirage problems in a way that doesn't even add skill ceiling to Condimirage either is a bad way. Even more when you have better ways available. If a build is playable for you or not also is not a valid argument in balance discussions. In particular since Powermirage has a good chance to be playable again for more than 1-2 player when getting 2 dodges back. Same for Condimirage.

You again talk about power lvl and amount of dmg, i talk about mechanical changes, what has nothing to do with how much condi or power dmg will be on the ambush mechanic in the end. I talk about that the mechanic on condi ambushes need to be more similar between power and condi to balance out mc on condi as well. And that means that clone ambushes have either zero (like sword) or very few dmg (like gs) and be more about either buff/debuff effects like gs or utility condis like sword. Meanwhile condi ambushes are still mainly about dmg and nothing else, while even the clone ambushes were almost as potent or even potenter than the mesmers own ambushes. They also were that potent, that shattering them was inferior dmg to let them live for the ambush dmg. They also still include nothing with enough impact except dmg, means nothing a Condimirage could work with more active and differently timed from pure defensive dodging and nothing that gives the incentive to combo ambushes with other skills like weapons/ shatter to give those more value. You also again miss, that current Condimirage doesn't even use ih and for that has zero clone ambushes. It also only use Mirages own sword ambush and that not even for the purpose of applying condis. So you compare apples with oranges anyway.

That would kill some active outplay options from sword where you want to get a daze at specific times without the mesmer needs to leap and change position himself, for example dodging with a sword clone up after swaping to gs for a gs2 burst into the clone daze. Those are skillful combos have counterplay. Deleting those options would lower the skill ceiling from sword mirage.It is also an unnecessary change when you make also condi clone ambushes more about utility effects and not dmg (what they should have been since pof release anyway, similar to what i want for ranger pets), means a mirage who dodges some follow up while being stunned cannot counterburst with clone dmg anymore anyway. removing 1 specific combo from unplayable build is a small price to pay, not to mention you can trigger ambush and cancel it with weapon swap to do the combo, or simply trigger gs ambush and then do the gs combo. awkward but doableIt is not only this one combo, it was just one example. You are the Mesmer main you should know about how to play Powermirage near its pretty high skill cap more than me.And what you say is not a solution considering how telegraphed and slow the gs2 combo already is, sword ambush also is not stowable after it started and starting gs ambush then stow before going for the gs2 burst will most likely not even be enough time to hit gs2 near the daze from the clone leap, not to mention that even my 90 years old grandma would dodge or simply outrun that. I also disagree to how much value you give to those combos. Deleting them is a big price considering we want a more skillbased game and not a less skillful game. Also as mentioned it is unnecessary when clone ambushes are more about utility instead dmg what they should be anyway for other reasons too. Dumbing down Powermirage to nerf the power lvl from condi ih without even adding skill ceiling to condi ih mechanic is not a good option and exactly the same what we have with the one dodge nerf. Just because you are not able to play Powermirage near its skill cap (and probably are afraid that condi ih Mirage gets a higher skill floor/ ceiling too) doesn't mean it is something this game should delete to become even more noobfriendly.

That would kill some active outplay options from sword where you want to get a daze at specific times without the mesmer needs to leap and change position himself, for example dodging with a sword clone up after swaping to gs for a gs2 burst into the clone daze. Those are skillful combos have counterplay. Deleting those options would lower the skill ceiling from sword mirage.It is also an unnecessary change when you make also condi clone ambushes more about utility effects and not dmg (what they should have been since pof release anyway, similar to what i want for ranger pets), means a mirage who dodges some follow up while being stunned cannot counterburst with clone dmg anymore anyway.