Speed of Synergy - Adjustment Discussion

[Overedge.2435]

Speed of Synergy, the Scrapper's minor master trait, feels a little backwards to me. Currently:

 

Using a heal skill grants superspeed in a radius around you. Using a healing skill's associated tool-belt skill grants you personal superspeed.

Self Superspeed (7s): Movement speed is greatly increased.
Superspeed (5s): Movement speed is greatly increased.
Radius: 240

 

Your personal heal grants area superspeed, while your toolbelt skill grants only personal speed. When considering other abilities that the Engineer possesses, specifically elixirs, I think the application of superspeed should be swapped: generally, the toolbelt skills are more likely to affect allies (such as a thrown elixir), so I think that the superspeed to allies should be moved to the heal skill's toolbelt ability instead of the main activation, while using the standard heal skill grants only personal superspeed.

 

Does anyone feel that a change like this would affect balance? What does everyone think?

 

 

[Kodama.6453]

It would also be a nice, since most of the healing skill toolbelt skills are more "dispensable" than your actual heal skill.

 

It feels bad to have to use your healing skill, even if you are not in need of healing, to give your group superspeed. Using your toolbelt for this task doesn't feel as bad, since most of them are just "side effects" anyway (at least on the heal skill). Only exception would be the toolbelt of the med kit, since it is your actual heal, but since it applies both portions of superspeed (personal and group) anyway, it doesn't matter.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

Good idea

Edited May 11, 2021 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Overedge.2435]

34 minutes ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

it's inaf 90% boon duration to perm quicknes while your on alac boon

 

 

 

Noah, did you reply to the right thread? My original post was about superspeed, which isn't affected by boon duration or anything like that.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

Quote

Noah, did you reply to the right thread? My original post was about superspeed, which isn't affected by boon duration or anything like that.

@Overedge.2435

 

i was more mean that if  it will proc x2 times Aoe Superspeed insted of 1 aoe and 1 self, it will help with Quickness uptime as you will need only 75% boon duration not like now 90-100% and your almost losing it

 

So it's good idea 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Arewn.2368]

-delete-

Edited May 12, 2021 by Arewn.2368

[Ghos.1326]

22 hours ago, Overedge.2435 said:

Speed of Synergy, the Scrapper's minor master trait, feels a little backwards to me. Currently:

 

Using a heal skill grants superspeed in a radius around you. Using a healing skill's associated tool-belt skill grants you personal superspeed.

Self Superspeed (7s): Movement speed is greatly increased.
Superspeed (5s): Movement speed is greatly increased.
Radius: 240

 

Your personal heal grants area superspeed, while your toolbelt skill grants only personal speed. When considering other abilities that the Engineer possesses, specifically elixirs, I think the application of superspeed should be swapped: generally, the toolbelt skills are more likely to affect allies (such as a thrown elixir), so I think that the superspeed to allies should be moved to the heal skill's toolbelt ability instead of the main activation, while using the standard heal skill grants only personal superspeed.

 

Does anyone feel that a change like this would affect balance? What does everyone think?

 

 

I would like this trait to be removed as a Minor trait.

But if Anet decides to keep it, then I'd say your suggestion is 100% solid.

[Overedge.2435]

36 minutes ago, Ghos.1326 said:

I would like this trait to be removed as a Minor trait.

But if Anet decides to keep it, then I'd say your suggestion is 100% solid.

Are you saying you would like it removed completely, or moved to a major trait choice?

[Ghos.1326]

1 hour ago, Overedge.2435 said:

Are you saying you would like it removed completely, or moved to a major trait choice?

Probably moved to a major trait choice, something offense oriented (object in motion for example)

[Overedge.2435]

3 minutes ago, Ghos.1326 said:

Probably moved to a major trait choice, something offense oriented (object in motion for example)

Maybe add its effect to [Gyroscopic Acceleration], since that already involves superspeed (and to me is rather underwhelming otherwise)?

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

I only see one risk with your idea. The med-kit.

 

Currently Bandage Self counts as a Heal Skill, while technically being a toolbelt skill. Upon casting, it applies Superspeed to our allies and ourselves. 

 

With that change, they would have to make a decision. If they continue to treat it like a Heal Skill, the group-buff vanishes. If they treat it like a toolbelt skill now, the group-buff remains. Especially the first option would annoy a lot of players. Those who play Healscrapper and intend to use the new Kinetic Accelerators group-quickness option. 

 

The users of Medic Gyro would also face a little problem. The Gyro only has a cooldown of 20 seconds. But its toolbelt has by design 25 seconds. That is 5 seconds more time to wait. Not every build can buffer Superspeed for such a long duration, it is not affected by boon-duration anyway.

 

I think for users of A.E.D., Elixir H and Healing Turret, the issue can be neglected. Fusing the trait with Gyroscopic Acceleration, would make it optional for sure. But that trait is already quite powerful.  Fusing it with Kinetic Accelerators would be rather problematic (see above). So Object in Motion would probably be the better choice imo. 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by HnRkLnXqZ.1870

[Overedge.2435]

3 minutes ago, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

I only see one risk with your idea. The med-kit.

 

Currently Bandage Self counts as a Heal Skill, while technically being a toolbelt skill. Upon casting, it applies Superspeed to our allies and ourselves. 

 

With that change, they would have to make a decision. If they continue to treat it like a Heal Skill, the group-buff vanishes. If they treat it like a toolbelt skill now, the group-buff remains. Especially the first option would annoy a lot of players. Those who play Healscrapper and intend to use the new Kinetic Accelerators group-quickness option. 

 

The users of Medic Gyro would also face a little problem. The Gyro only has a cooldown of 20 seconds. But its toolbelt has by design 25 seconds. That is 5 seconds more time to wait. Not every build can buffer Superspeed for such a long duration, it is not affected by boon-duration anyway.

 

I think for users of A.E.D., Elixir H and Healing Turret, the issue can be neglected. Fusing the trait with Gyroscopic Acceleration, would make it optional for sure. But that trait is already quite powerful.  Fusing it with Kinetic Accelerators would be rather problematic (see above). So Object in Motion would probably be the better choice imo. 

 

As it stands, the med kit self-heal already applies both the self superspeed and the group superspeed when you use it, so if this change went through, that's actually one thing that wouldn't change. And...well, I probably need to test this, but I don't think the applications stack, do they? So the group gets 5s while you have 7s?

 

As for medic gyro, I've been looking at these changes from a WvW perspective since that's been my primary game mode these days, and medic gyro actually has a 30s cooldown there. I hadn't even thought to compare cooldowns across modes.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

Superspeed overwrites itself. In the case of the med kit and Bandage Self it appears that the group Superspeed is applied first, then the self Superspeed. When I test it, I end up with 12 seconds, while my allies have 5 seconds. Now if the effect of the trait is switched and the skill not faces a change, the 5 seconds will overwrite the 12 seconds xD.

 

I know for WvW this does not matter, but I doubt they would only change it for that game-mode. I keep the PvE community in mind as well.

Edited May 12, 2021 by HnRkLnXqZ.1870

[Overedge.2435]

32 minutes ago, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

When I test it, I end up with 12 seconds, while my allies have 5 seconds. Now if the effect of the trait is switched and the skill not faces a change, the 5 seconds will overwrite the 12 seconds xD.

Actually, in that case, I don't think anything would change. The skill applies 5s to the group and 7s to you, which adds up to 12s on you. Superspeed applications aren't supposed to stack, so maybe that was a sort of exception made for that skill since they're applied simultaneously?

[Noah Salazar.5430]

@Overedge.2435 @HnRkLnXqZ.1870

You are both wrong

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Renny.6571]

13 minutes ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

@Overedge.2435 @HnRkLnXqZ.1870

You are both wrong

 

Superspeed only overwrite lower amount

 

 

 

No. Superspeed will overwrite no matter what the duration is.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

Quote

No. Superspeed will overwrite no matter what the duration is.

@Renny.6571

edit:

Sorry you got right

i got to wrong conclusion as after you pres f1 bandage, then gyro, it's trigger  perfectly on 5s xd

 

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Noah Salazar.5430