Addressing the CORE(Necromancer Balance)

[kKagari.6804]

I think all the blame can be made out to the boons and conditions system. Back in GW1 classes were unique because they provided unique effects. Sure, there were still conditions, but the majority of them were debilitating rather than straight up damage. The moment everything got homogenized into the GW2 boons and conditions system it was always going to come down to who can outperform quantitatively rather than qualitatively.

Something like GW1's Spiteful Spirit was nuanced with an indirect crowd control aspect as well as a damage aspect. The cooldown on the skill also ensures you can't throw it out nilly willy. Confusion in GW2 is just not the same: it now does flat damage, you can apply it plentifully and all forms of counterplay is thrown out the window. Theres never a reason to not apply it, and it doesn't impair the enemy it is afflicted on anyways because they know they'll generally still attack you regardless.

We can talk about fixing necromancers all day but I think the damage is much deeper, and it doesn't look like something that can be fixed.

[Lily.1935]

@kKagari.6804 said:I think all the blame can be made out to the boons and conditions system. Back in GW1 classes were unique because they provided unique effects. Sure, there were still conditions, but the majority of them were debilitating rather than straight up damage. The moment everything got homogenized into the GW2 boons and conditions system it was always going to come down to who can outperform quantitatively rather than qualitatively.

Something like GW1's Spiteful Spirit was nuanced with an indirect crowd control aspect as well as a damage aspect. The cooldown on the skill also ensures you can't throw it out nilly willy. Confusion in GW2 is just not the same: it now does flat damage, you can apply it plentifully and all forms of counterplay is thrown out the window. Theres never a reason to not apply it, and it doesn't impair the enemy it is afflicted on anyways because they know they'll generally still attack you regardless.

We can talk about fixing necromancers all day but I think the damage is much deeper, and it doesn't look like something that can be fixed.

I'm not interested in talking about changing the system we're in. If you want to do that create your own post in another forum. Don't use my post as as a platform. I'm going to continue to work in the system we've got because its not going to change. And it has nothing to do with the boon and condition system but the AI system. Which this isn't the appropriate place to be complaining about that.

[kKagari.6804]

Good because neither am I. Nowhere did I suggest my interest in changing the system in this thread. What I did state though, is the underlying cause of the symptoms we have playing as a necromancer. The system is based around an upward progression of power creep, where as in GW1 it was more or less sideways, or slightly diagonal. And whether you like it or not, the Anet are adding in unique effects to the game and they are the way forward to creating more diversified classes.

At the same time they aren't going to implement changes like what you suggested to vampiric presence because Karl has stated earlier this month they balance based on potential, not under realistic settings. As for the implications of using healing power to scale a damage coefficient? It makes no sense because you are essentially eliminating the drawback that everyone else is faced with when taking healing power: you lose damage so that you can heal more.

You can be as combative as you want but it doesn't make your idea any better.

[Lily.1935]

@kKagari.6804 said:Good because neither am I. Nowhere did I suggest my interest in changing the system in this thread. What I did state though, is the underlying cause of the symptoms we have playing as a necromancer. The system is based around an upward progression of power creep, where as in GW1 it was more or less sideways, or slightly diagonal. And whether you like it or not, the Anet are adding in unique effects to the game and they are the way forward to creating more diversified classes.

At the same time they aren't going to implement changes like what you suggested to vampiric presence because Karl has stated earlier this month they balance based on potential, not under realistic settings. As for the implications of using healing power to scale a damage coefficient? It makes no sense because you are essentially eliminating the drawback that everyone else is faced with when taking healing power: you lose damage so that you can heal more.

You can be as combative as you want but it doesn't make your idea any better.

Even with my suggestion you still lose personal dps. Also the group dps is overall increased well beyond that of what the druid healer could provide so this is a non issue. And with the life stealing it still is a major person dps loss, so in the context of the system they have now their is absolutely no good reason for them not to scale it as I and countless others have suggested.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

I'm sorry, I simply cannot agree with you whatsoever on Soul Comprehension. It needs a total overhaul.

I do, however, like the idea of changing minion skills to be a more ammo-mechanic with Death Nova granting additional charges. Not sure how it would work with Flesh Wurm in particular, but it's an interesting idea.

[ZDragon.3046]

Let me start off by saying i love your detailed post

CORE

My only real issues is your call out is to things like with blood magic i hate the idea of trying to make a nasty profession like necromancer over altruistic. Just simply should not be a common thing and anet has sprinkled it everywhere throughout the profession. I say remove all the altruism from core and give it to scourge so that scourge can be that shining support we all want it to be. :DLife stealing should be done based on power but anet should have never tried to scale it from the power stat it should have just be a % of dps period imo. If you scale it from healing power you are still forced into hitting foes to trigger it which means you do less damage as you give another stat for that healing power. Necro already struggles to keep up with other professions using the same stats and with less defensive tools.

MECHANICS

I totally agree that life force should be sooooo much more although i dislike the idea of going all f1 -f5 never liked the idea of having to spaz all those buttons. that aside i like the idea of making shroud skills cost life force but it causes another problem unless those skills are pretty much over performing it pinches necro players into suddenly having to cross a massive skill cap. As you have even less defense or and still no defensive tools and lack of true sustain tools. Pretty much you become what scourge is now and im not sure I would want that for core personally or that it would work

CORE SHROUDThis thing could use some major updates and i like the idea of cutting cast time and after cast on life blast its really something thats needing to be done. (basically turn it into the under water skill plague blast) and it would be fine.skill 2 and 3 are fine as they are in core.Skill 4 needs a conditions attached to it and it possibly should cast a bit faster OR provide one stack of stability to help secure the casting of skill itself.Skill 5 is ok-ish though it does conflict it should maybe pulse chill on each application for torment or cripple. Although I would settle for it to do different condition if the final part of the skill is always going to end with an immobilize or stun as it prevents the previous portion of the skill from being able to reach its max potential as a result. Torment into immobile is just bad choice of design.

Lastly if you put a whole trait line or multiple trait lines into empowering this mechanic its not performing up to standards that it should be.

SpiteYes this line underperform thematically but im not sure its do to the trait lines fault or if its just the lack of umpf in the weapons or core mechanic Yes spite has some useless tools that could be updated but as far as what is used maybe not too much.

WellsLets not forget well of power converting 2 condis per pulse to boons forget the pulsing stability it would simply be like 1-2 seconds of stability anet clearly has shown that they dislike pulsing stability as they removed it from berserker warrior and reaper skill 3. I doubt we will see that come back to necromancer in any way shape or form.And well fo corruption doing the same in the other direction.

The sheer amount of boons and condi in the game now only doing 1 per pulse is a bit lacklusterWell of darkness is almost useless even with dps attached it would out dps well of suffering which would invite them to increase its already lengthy cd. I think well of darkness should have been that hard condi applying well that blinds, immobs, maybe even fears on its last pulse this would allow you to combo it into other skills, wells, etc.

SPECTRAL SKILLSI love your idea on spectral skills though i prase your thoughts for the spectral grasp idea making the next few shroud skills apply bonus chill and damage although for this to work i feel like spectral grasp needs to go back to a single target and be moved to the ammo system giving you a max of 2 pulls maybe 3 at 10% LF gain per pull.Same thing for spectral wall needs to be on the ammo system.

SIGNETSyes yes yes your idea on vamp signet is great no cd on passive procs is very needed to make this thing shine and if this was changed then I could maybe agree with your blood magic ideas but not unless this happensSignet of spite is just a mess its cd is too high and its passive and active portions conflictPlauge signet has no passive positive bonus to the necro itself.Signet of undeath yes cast time is too long but you still only use that signet if you are running a full signet buildSignet of locust meh i guess this one is ok as is but not very useful

These are just some of my thoughts not all of them