Improving Harbinger's interactions with Blight

[KinkyPotato.4219]

10 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Ah okay I see , you changed all master tier to be elixirs. Blood magic has regen via dodging and the skills apply regen-like effects via vampiric presence and vampiric if you go full DPS on blood except for transfusion.

 

Regen on dodging is highly unreliable in pvp scenarios with a limited radius and uncontrollable trigger, vampiric only applies to yourself and vampiric presence is really only viable if people are constantly attacking (not always possible in pvp/wvw scenarios). 

 

10 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You can't really compare harbinger to other classes though for healing purposes. Ventari revenant is not that relevant after soulcleave nerfs and you need to run salvation to be a real heal renegade as opposed to alac ren, I think the places people really ask for it is on CA CM (Wing6) and Adina (Wing7).

In PVE tempest shouts are taken but generally the only one people really use in WVW is aftershock. The reason is it has a reflect, immob, and protection so it serves multiple uses. The PVP version does not use shouts at all. Tempest traitline only has the heal on auras.

 

You continue to look at everything through the lens of a raider when in reality, that is only a tiny portion of content in the game. How else would you add blight benefits to a support Harbinger? The only thing I can think of is healing. Concentration is already covered with the current iteration of Twisted Medicine.

 

I play tempest all the time in WvW and I use Wash the Pain Away, Flash Freeze, Aftershock and Rebound in WvW with great success. Also, they have Invigorating Torrents which causes auras to grant regeneration and vigor. Given their high access to auras through traits and skills, they'll be stacking a much higher regeneration than necros. The PvP version does not use shouts at all because Tempests are not used in PvP at all. 

 

10 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

I suspect harbinger is meant as an offensive support (similar to StM chrono ,. CQB, or power quickness scrapper) not a defensive one, which is why adding conditional healing isn't going to help. Because necromancers can apply might easily unlike StM Chrono/power quickness scrapper/heal quickness scrapper it's best kept as an offensive support. cQB isn't able to supply as much might as HB , you are relying on scepter (4 stacks) and mantra of potence (5 stacks per proc) more or less. Just like HB must run honor for proper healing, renegade uses salvation, tempest runs water, spellbreaker runs tactics, scrapper drops 2 traitlines for alchemy and inventions, druid that wants boon support runs nature magic, chrono meme heal runs inspiration : if someone wants to run a heal support they should be using blood magic.

Necromancers can apply might easily simply because they use the utility for it. CQB already can provide decent might stacks with Mantra of Potence and Scepter as you stated. Quickness scrappers can equip more blast finishers if they wanted to for Blast Gyro (and Heal Quickness Scrappers bring HGH for might on elixirs). They don't however because might is already covered by dedicated supports. Why focus on bringing more might when 25 stacks are already covered by the Druid/Tempest?

 

Exactly, necros should be using blood magic for healing and Harbinger for boons.  If they want to do a decent job at it, they should have to spec for it just like you mentioned with Honor/Firebrand for Guardian and Alchemy/Inventions/Scrapper for Engineer. I feel like these specs will still perform better than the Harbinger because not only do they provide quickness, they also provide additional utility (Guardians bring stability, aegis, fury and engineers bring superspeed). Harbinger does not have any burst healing with my suggestions whereas Blood does with Life from Death and Transfusion. If the Dark Disciple heal is too strong, just halve its effectiveness on others.

I would compare this more to the Guardian's Battle Presence trait in Virtues. While Battle Presence heals less, it has a larger radius (600 vs 360), has the potential to restore endurance with Purity of Body and is always active with Loremaster (you would need to be out of Shroud, have at least 10 stacks of blight and have available Life Force). Does taking Virtues turn the Guardian into a full blown healer because of the existence of this trait? No, it doesn't - they supplement it with Honor to specialize further in healing. The same can be applied here.

Edited August 19, 2021 by KinkyPotato.4219

[Keefe.3821]

It does seem strange that Transfusion doesn't work seeing that harbinger has boon sharing.

[Infusion.7149]

14 hours ago, KinkyPotato.4219 said:

Regen on dodging is highly unreliable in pvp scenarios with a limited radius and uncontrollable trigger, vampiric only applies to yourself and vampiric presence is really only viable if people are constantly attacking (not always possible in pvp/wvw scenarios). 

 

 

You continue to look at everything through the lens of a raider when in reality, that is only a tiny portion of content in the game. How else would you add blight benefits to a support Harbinger? The only thing I can think of is healing. Concentration is already covered with the current iteration of Twisted Medicine.

 

I play tempest all the time in WvW and I use Wash the Pain Away, Flash Freeze, Aftershock and Rebound in WvW with great success. Also, they have Invigorating Torrents which causes auras to grant regeneration and vigor. Given their high access to auras through traits and skills, they'll be stacking a much higher regeneration than necros. The PvP version does not use shouts at all because Tempests are not used in PvP at all. 

 

Necromancers can apply might easily simply because they use the utility for it. CQB already can provide decent might stacks with Mantra of Potence and Scepter as you stated. Quickness scrappers can equip more blast finishers if they wanted to for Blast Gyro (and Heal Quickness Scrappers bring HGH for might on elixirs). They don't however because might is already covered by dedicated supports. Why focus on bringing more might when 25 stacks are already covered by the Druid/Tempest?

 

Exactly, necros should be using blood magic for healing and Harbinger for boons.  If they want to do a decent job at it, they should have to spec for it just like you mentioned with Honor/Firebrand for Guardian and Alchemy/Inventions/Scrapper for Engineer. I feel like these specs will still perform better than the Harbinger because not only do they provide quickness, they also provide additional utility (Guardians bring stability, aegis, fury and engineers bring superspeed). Harbinger does not have any burst healing with my suggestions whereas Blood does with Life from Death and Transfusion. If the Dark Disciple heal is too strong, just halve its effectiveness on others.

I would compare this more to the Guardian's Battle Presence trait in Virtues. While Battle Presence heals less, it has a larger radius (600 vs 360), has the potential to restore endurance with Purity of Body and is always active with Loremaster (you would need to be out of Shroud, have at least 10 stacks of blight and have available Life Force). Does taking Virtues turn the Guardian into a full blown healer because of the existence of this trait? No, it doesn't - they supplement it with Honor to specialize further in healing. The same can be applied here.

Tempests fell out of favor when the healing amulet (mender's) was removed , up until then d/f aurashare was actually part of the meta. Tempests can't share auras outside their shouts unless they trait water for powerful aura. Also the difference on guardians is Battle Presence is in Virtues, a core traitline.

On heal scrapper people don't use extra blast finishers because you would lose quickness uptime from gyros and/or cleanses. You're not going to have medic gyro because you're using med kit, so you essentially have bulwark and blast with purge / elixir gun. Without blast gyro you won't have as much quickness uptime because it has two source of quickness, one is from the toolbelt's bypass coating. WvW variants usually run elixir gun, bulwark , purge gyro.

You're putting a heal into a trait that puts out quickness, one of the strongest boons in existence. Plus it would be a passive. On a spec that is presumably doing 45K cDPS and 33K+ on condi quickness builds (torment rune or firebrand rune). Just the fact that it puts out 33K on boon support already makes it a questionable proposal.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[KinkyPotato.4219]

38 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Tempests fell out of favor when the healing amulet (mender's) was removed , up until then d/f aurashare was actually part of the meta. Also tthe difference on guardians is Battle Presence is in Virtues, a core traitline.

I'm failing to see how past builds of the game have any influence going forward, unless they're actively thinking of bringing back mender's amulet. What difference does it make if Battle Presence is in a core traitline? 

 

38 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

On heal scrapper people don't use extra blast finishers because you would lose quickness uptime from gyros and/or cleanses. You're not going to have medic gyro because you're using med kit, so you essentially have bulwark and blast with purge / elixir gun. Without blast gyro you won't have as much quickness uptime because it has two source of quickness, one is from the toolbelt's bypass coating. WvW variants usually run elixir gun, bulwark , purge gyro.

In PvE, you wouldn't lose quickness uptime - it's permanent if you're actively rotating out your gyros, using Bypass coating, your Heal Skill ala Speed of Synergy, Function Gyro ala Gyroscopic Acceleration, and Harrier Gear with boon duration runes. Blasting your fire field is easy too with Medkit #5, Elixir Gun #4 and Shield #4. I am aware of the WvW variant as I play that too - you can still maintain an incredibly high uptime on Quickness while also having access to one of the best supportive abilities in the game - the Medkit. Medkit healing roughly 2k a second with every 1 cast (everyone is booned in zergs) is going to heal a lot more than a ~500 hp heal on Dark Disciple. Are you suggesting you'd bring Blood is Power for a WvW Harbinger support which would let you bring more might? That's asking to get yourself killed but I commend you for trying.

 

38 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You're putting a heal into a trait that puts out quickness, one of the strongest boons in existence. Plus it would be a passive. On a class that is presumably doing 45K cDPS and 33K+ on condi quickness builds (torment rune or firebrand rune). Just the fact that it puts out 33K on boon support already makes it a questionable proposal.

Not really passive - there's still an interesting active component to it since it would double your life force drain to 10% a second. On top of that, you're still forgetting that you would need to be at or above 10 blight stacks. If you had to use Elixir of Promise to heal yourself up, you won't be healing with that trait (since it'd remove stacks) until you stack blight again. Similarly, since the duration is lower on blight overall, you'd have to either keep going in and out of Shroud to maintain stacks or use elixirs. If you were to load up on said elixirs to maintain blight, chances are your damage is not going to be that high. Also - Deathly Haste only grants 2 seconds of quickness every 3 seconds currently. You would need at least 50% boon duration to get that to 3 seconds every 3 seconds. So really, the only rune that would somewhat let you stack more quickness over the interval would be rune of the firebrand with Viper's gear. Rune of tormenting would mean there would be periods during the interval of Deathly Haste where you and your group does not have Quickness (unless you're using gear with +Concentration but that makes the damage even worse). The second you pop out of Shroud to generate life force and use your weapon skills/utilities, that quickness is gone. There's quite a bit of thinking going on with it - not everything is a braindead PvE rotation with all boons permanently provided by the Special Forces Training Area. May you link the video of the condition quickness 33k dps? 

Edited August 19, 2021 by KinkyPotato.4219

[Infusion.7149]

26 minutes ago, KinkyPotato.4219 said:

I'm failing to see how past builds of the game have any influence going forward, unless they're actively thinking of bringing back mender's amulet. What difference does it make if Battle Presence is in a core traitline? 

 

In PvE, you wouldn't lose quickness uptime - it's permanent if you're actively rotating out your gyros, using Bypass coating, your Heal Skill ala Speed of Synergy, Function Gyro ala Gyroscopic Acceleration, and Harrier Gear with boon duration runes. Blasting your fire field is easy too with Medkit #5, Elixir Gun #4 and Shield #4. I am aware of the WvW variant as I play that too - you can still maintain an incredibly high uptime on Quickness while also having access to one of the best supportive abilities in the game - the Medkit. Medkit healing roughly 2k a second with every 1 cast (everyone is booned in zergs) is going to heal a lot more than a ~500 hp heal on Dark Disciple. Are you suggesting you'd bring Blood is Power for a WvW Harbinger support which would let you bring more might? That's asking to get yourself killed but I commend you for trying.

 

Not really passive - there's still an interesting active component to it since it would double your life force drain to 10% a second. On top of that, you're still forgetting that you would need to be at or above 10 blight stacks. If you had to use Elixir of Promise to heal yourself up, you won't be healing with that trait (since it'd remove stacks) until you stack blight again. Similarly, since the duration is lower on blight overall, you'd have to either keep going in and out of Shroud to maintain stacks or use elixirs. If you were to load up on said elixirs to maintain blight, chances are your damage is not going to be that high. Also - Deathly Haste only grants 2 seconds of quickness every 3 seconds currently. You would need at least 50% boon duration to get that to 3 seconds every 3 seconds. So really, the only rune that would somewhat let you stack more quickness over the interval would be rune of the firebrand. Rune of tormenting would mean there would be periods during the interval of Deathly Haste where you and your group does not have Quickness. The second you pop out of Shroud to generate life force and use your weapon skills/utilities, that quickness is gone. There's quite a bit of thinking going on with it - not everything is a braindead PvE rotation with all buffs permanently provided from the Special Forces Training Area. May you link the video of the condition quickness 33k dps? 

The point is those specs rely on a core traitline for the support you are talking about.

Harbinger isn't a WVW spec. Even people in the feedback thread have stated so, for good reason. The power coefficients are extremely low on pistol and the pulsed power damage in shroud is <1K tooltip on 3s interval ; torment makes up half the damage for the PVE versions and decreases effectiveness heavily in WVW in this superspeed meta. I'm not sure why you mention Blood is Power for WVW Harbinger support, if someone wants quickness they will run heal scrapper or pDPS scrapper in WVW for the utility / superspeed/stealth.

45K official benchmark , from Snowcrows not a random source
 

https://snowcrows.com/builds/necromancer/necromancer/condition-harbinger

Firebrand rune , 33K + ending number

Tormenting rune quickness, not glass because of tormenting rune

---
logs of actual use:
SH, a condi fight: https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/raid/sh
https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/log/Xei0-20210817-232808_sh

MO https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/log/YXPC-20210818-210532_mo

Cairn https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/log/n3uv-20210818-205956_cairn

Xera, not a condi fight https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/log/twkR-20210818-220854_xera

VG https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/log/hpa5-20210818-010221_vg

Gorseval https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/log/llyj-20210818-011546_gors

 

Sabetha https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/log/OIoH-20210818-012425_sab

Edited August 19, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[KinkyPotato.4219]

22 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The point is those specs rely on a core traitline for the support you are talking about.

Still failing to see how this has any relevance - yes, there is more synergy because it's a core trait? Ok great - what about Elemental Bastion? It now has synergy with every single core aura trait. 

 

22 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Harbinger isn't a WVW spec. Even people in the feedback thread have stated so, for good reason The power coefficients are extremely low on pistol and the pulsed power damage in shroud is <1K tooltip on 3s interval. I'm not sure why you mention Blood is Power for WVW Harbinger support, if someone wants quickness they will run heal scrapper or pDPS scrapper in WVW for the utility / superspeed/stealth.

I refuse to believe that unless a dev comes out to confirm that the spec was not intended to be played in WvW or SPvP. If it isn't intended for competitive modes, why even allow someone to play it in those modes then? That would be pretty ignorant of the devs. Nowhere in my changes did I list flat out buffs for the condition spec - aside from giving it access to bleed by shifting into Harbinger Shroud. If people are stating that power is weak and condition is too strong, perhaps the amount of torment stacks that the pistol/shroud can output should be looked at while simultaneously buffing power coefficients/traits. I thought it was obvious that by making the auras on the grandmasters pulse every 1 second from 3, that the effects of the auras would be scaled back accordingly.

 

As to your second point, it's called having choice - supports would then be diversified in WvW to consist of Firebrands for boons, Heralds for boons, Scrappers for superspeed/stealth/quickness utility and healing, Tempests for aura/field utility and healing, and Harbingers for quickness/minor healing/more damage. Thank you for providing the videos.

Edited August 19, 2021 by KinkyPotato.4219

[Infusion.7149]

1 minute ago, KinkyPotato.4219 said:

Still failing to see how this has any relevance - yes, there is more synergy because it's a core trait? Ok great - what about Elemental Bastion? It now has synergy with every single core aura trait. 

 

I refuse to believe that unless a dev comes out to confirm that the spec was not intended to be played in WvW or SPvP. If it isn't intended for competitive modes, why even allow someone to play it in those modes then? That would be pretty ignorant of the devs. Nowhere in my changes did I list flat out buffs for the condition spec - aside from giving it access to bleed by shifting into Harbinger Shroud. If people are stating that power is weak and condition is too strong, perhaps the amount of torment stacks that the build can output should be looked at while simultaneously buffing power coefficients/traits. I thought it was obvious that by making the auras on the grandmasters pulse every 1 second from 3, that the effects of the auras would be scaled back accordingly.

 

As to your second point, it's called having choice - supports would then be diversified in WvW to consist of Firebrands for boons, Heralds for boons, Scrappers for superspeed/stealth/quickness utility and healing, Tempests for aura/field utility and healing, and Harbingers for quickness/minor healing/more damage. Thank you for providing the videos.

Elemental Bastion is akin to an Elixir trait as opposed to a shroud trait. It is possible to build tempest without heavily leaning on auras (from shouts).

They're not going to say that but the pistol is projectile and so is the shroud , the bulk of both of those have condition damage because power coefficients are really low. . So unless you think that conditions + projectiles are good outside of roaming... it's not a WVW spec.

They're not going to say core ranger or druid are not WVW specs either.

Harbinger is playable in PVP because the mobility and enemy cleanses are less of a problem and you fight on/around cap points. Having 5 potential sources of cleanses is a huge difference.

[KinkyPotato.4219]

14 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Elemental Bastion is akin to an Elixir trait as opposed to a shroud trait. It is possible to build tempest without heavily leaning on auras (from shouts).

Doesn't apply because elixirs are a utility for the Harbinger. Auras on the other hand can not only be applied by the tempests' utilities, but also through various traits and weapon skills. So it is absolutely possible to build tempest without heavily leaning on auras just like it is possible to build Harbinger without heavily leaning on elixirs. 

 

14 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

They're not going to say that but the pistol is projectile and so is the shroud , the bulk of both of those have condition damage because power coefficients are really low. . So unless you think that conditions + projectiles are good outside of roaming... it's not a WVW spec.

If you're camping a projectile weapon while pushing in with reflects everywhere...don't know what to say. You can always weapon swap to something else while pushing with a zerg then swap back to pistol once the cleanup starts. Pistol skills and Shroud #1/2 being AoE actually makes it great for finishing downed clumps. Scepter, staff and axe would all be perfectly viable swaps.

Edited August 19, 2021 by KinkyPotato.4219

[Infusion.7149]

3 minutes ago, KinkyPotato.4219 said:

Doesn't apply because elixirs are a utility for the Harbinger. Auras on the other hand can not only be applied by the tempests' utilities, but also through various traits and weapon skills. So it is absolutely possible to build tempest without heavily leaning on auras just like it is possible to build Harbinger without heavily leaning on elixirs. 

 

If you're camping a projectile weapon while pushing in with reflects everywhere...don't know what to say. You can always weapon swap to something else while pushing with a zerg then swap back to pistol once the cleanup starts. Pistol and Shroud #1/2 being AoE actually makes it great for finishing downed clumps. Scepter, staff and axe would be viable swaps.

You won't be sharing the auras if it's off weapon skills/traits. Needs powerful aura for that.

Anyway Elixirs might need help but shroud does not, as evidenced by the cDPS even when going quickness share with Deathly Haste.

It also doesn't change the fact that the bulk of the damage in shroud (projectile) is from torment and also from pistol. Torment is going to lose effectiveness against moving targets.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[KinkyPotato.4219]

14 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You won't be sharing the auras if it's off weapon skills/traits. Needs powerful aura for that.

Exactly - so if you want to heal more with Dark Disciple, you will need to bring Life Force traits/skills so you can do it better. Is your concern the fact that for someone to run the offensive Quickness variant, they would be taxed with a heavier life force cost? That could always be reworked into something else or moved to the Adept line (again these are all just theoretical so you shouldn't worry that any of these are going to be implemented probably). That way, you'd still be able to pick up Septic Corruption/Wicked Corruption with quickness sharing.

 

14 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

It also doesn't change the fact that the bulk of the damage in shroud (projectile) is from torment and also from pistol. Torment is going to lose effectiveness against moving targets.

Which is why I added access to bleeding in the Master tier. Condition Harbingers could even take Implacable Foe and have success with it since it would give them much needed stability and immobilize for added torment damage. Perhaps they just need a wider array of conditions to be viable in wvw? Or for torment to have slightly higher coefficients for when people are moving? 

Edited August 19, 2021 by KinkyPotato.4219

[Infusion.7149]

Not sure how a few stacks of bleeding and torment is supposed to work against a superspeed group with cleanses and passive sustain from virtue sharing / scrapper med kits. You're going to be limited by the projectile nature and the cooldown on shroud regardless. That's in contrast to running power reaper on melee pushes or power / cele+ grieving scourge for a partly "pirate-ship" comp with hammer heralds or even power weavers (currently the barriers are buggy and applying on every auto).

 

Torment was changed partly because condition herald was dominant probably, I don't anticipate it going back.

 

Harbinger is going to be mainly a PVE spec by the looks of it fulfulling the high DPS that PVE-only necros have been clamoring for, so any changes should keep that in mind unless a skill is extremely unlikely to ever be taken in PVE (i.e. a self condi cleanse on 30+ cooldown with no stunbreaks).

From reading multiple places talking about the game, almost everyone agrees the bulk of elixirs other than the quickness one and the elite need help. It's almost a consensus that power harbinger is not particularly strong either (similar to running power firebrand and not running quickness on it , or power druid).

[KinkyPotato.4219]

9 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Not sure how a few stacks of bleeding and torment is supposed to work against a superspeed group with cleanses and passive sustain from virtue sharing / scrapper med kits. You're going to be limited by the projectile nature and the cooldown on shroud regardless. That's in contrast to running power reaper on melee pushes or power / cele+ grieving scourge for a partly "pirate-ship" comp with hammer heralds or even power weavers (currently the barriers are buggy and applying on every auto).

 

Then run Implacable Foe which gives you stability, immobilize and reduced Harbinger Shroud cooldown. That would let you push quite effectively and would also let you stay in longer to accumulate/ramp up with Cascading Corruption or Doom Approaches. If you're playing more of a backline, then I don't see how added bleeding wouldn't help. Bleeding could also be used for a roaming build where cleanses are not as rampant or for sPvP.

 

9 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Harbinger is going to be mainly a PVE spec by the looks of it fulfulling the high DPS that PVE-only necros have been clamoring for, so any changes should keep that in mind unless a skill is extremely unlikely to ever be taken in PVE (i.e. a self condi cleanse on 30+ cooldown with no stunbreaks).

Correction - it can function as a high-risk, high-reward build for all game modes. Shroud #3 and #4 are perfect for mobility in WvW. The foundation for it is there - it just needs help solidifying its identity.

 

9 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

From reading multiple places talking about the game, almost everyone agrees the bulk of elixirs other than the quickness one and the elite need help. It's almost a consensus that power harbinger is not particularly strong either (similar to running power firebrand and not running quickness on it , or power druid).

Which is why we added the interactions with blight to make them stronger as you lose HP + baseline fear and vulnerability.

Edited August 19, 2021 by KinkyPotato.4219

[RyuDragnier.9476]

Was talking with a friend about this, perhaps the 3 adept traits should be changing how elixirs associate with blight at high numbers. Such as the power line having explosions/blasts with it, the condi line throwing the condi equivalents of the boon at the enemy as well, and the support line healing nearby allies based on how much blight you've accumulated. The healing elixir should instead dump all blight and heal you depending on how many stacks were consumed (meaning the traits wouldn't effect this one).

Edited August 19, 2021 by RyuDragnier.9476

[KinkyPotato.4219]

15 hours ago, RyuDragnier.9476 said:

Was talking with a friend about this, perhaps the 3 adept traits should be changing how elixirs associate with blight at high numbers. Such as the power line having explosions/blasts with it, the condi line throwing the condi equivalents of the boon at the enemy as well, and the support line healing nearby allies based on how much blight you've accumulated. The healing elixir should instead dump all blight and heal you depending on how many stacks were consumed (meaning the traits wouldn't effect this one).

I had something like that initially for the master traits and I liked it but ultimately decided to remove it because it would feel awkward having three traits dedicated to a single utility line thus forcing someone to pick an elixir trait even if they didn't want to use elixirs. 

Edited August 20, 2021 by KinkyPotato.4219

[KinkyPotato.4219]

22 hours ago, Keefe.3821 said:

It does seem strange that Transfusion doesn't work seeing that harbinger has boon sharing.

Transfusion does work, at least in WvW. It starts healing after you've landed with Shroud #4.

[Obtena.7952]

Three issues I have with Harbringer:

 

1. The 'duplication' of Condi and Direct DPS traits, making the espec feel thin on concept

 

2. Underuse of blight interaction

 

3. Bland Elixir implementation 

 

Hum ... seems to me there is a way to solve these issues with a good trait rework and a bit of spice on the Elixirs

[RyuDragnier.9476]

1 hour ago, KinkyPotato.4219 said:

I had something like that initially for the master traits and I liked it but ultimately decided to remove it because it would feel awkward having three traits dedicated to a single utility line thus forcing someone to pick an elixir trait even if they didn't want to use elixirs. 

The question then becomes "Why play Harbinger, which focuses on risk/reward with Blight, if you don't want to use the things that give you Blight?"

[KinkyPotato.4219]

42 minutes ago, RyuDragnier.9476 said:

The question then becomes "Why play Harbinger, which focuses on risk/reward with Blight, if you don't want to use the things that give you Blight?"

Precisely. That's what these changes attempt to do - make elixirs attractive enough for non-supports to use, and entice people to stack Blight to receive bonuses (unlike what's being done now where master traits have conversions based on vitality and grandmasters have flat attribute increases - none of which revolve around blight).