Thief Shadow magic question

I have always wondered what was the main difference between death and shadow magic. Is shadow magic just more tricks and playing with the light and disappearing? The words shadow magic sound kind of evil, but is it with how Thiefs interact with it?

Shadow Magic and Death Magic would not be inherently evil. The both are just tools, and they only harm people if the user wants to.

As for Shadow Magic being Death Magic, no. The two have completely different functions. Shadow Magic would likely be conjuring shadows, or the lack of visible light, and focuses more heavily on trickery and deception. Death Magic is dealing with lost souls.

I was thinking that myself, but it got me wondering on the necros shades. Does the name imply they are shadows? Or that is just the name for a lost soul?

I'm pretty sure the necromancer shades refer to the definition of shade meaning a spirit, or ghost.

Shadow Magic would likely be conjuring shadows, or the lack of visible light, and focuses more heavily on trickery and deception.

So mesmer butterfly magic

@Mayama.1854 said:

Shadow Magic would likely be conjuring shadows, or the lack of visible light, and focuses more heavily on trickery and deception.

Mesmers use some other magic though to do their stuff which makes me question shadow a little bit more on it's purpose.

@Doctor Hide.6345 said:

@Mayama.1854 said:

Shadow Magic would likely be conjuring shadows, or the lack of visible light, and focuses more heavily on trickery and deception.

You're definitely confusing them on broad definition of "words", rather then thematic concepts. Which I'm gonna assume english isn't your first language, as a lot of written aesthetic flair relies on articulation rather then "literal meaning". It also helps to understand superstition and fairytales from multiple cultures, as Guildwars writers absolutely love to subvert ideas by using multiple influences of a common theme.

Necros are largely based on Western religious superstition, which relies on the concept of Body and Soul being distinct entities, fundamentally paired to each other, but the Soul not of this world (ascend to heaven, etc). Eastern cultures largely view spirits as being ubiquitous and coexisting with the physical word, part of the natural order, and not to be trifled with. You'll notice that Western cultures will put the dead to rest, and leave memorials in respect of memory; while Asian cultures in particular do a combination to appease, worship and honor the spirits that maintain the natural order, and the spirits of their ancestors who actively protect and guide them.

This is why the Necromancer recalling spirits is seen as a perversion of the natural order (in western fashion), and often seen by much of Tyrian cultures as Dangerous. But from the perspective of many Necromancers, that power is misunderstood, and too often abused by evil forces to be ignored. So Heros who take up the Necromancer profession consider themselves guardians of the natural cycle of Life and Death, drawing upon the energy of the souls, and returning them to rest once the need passes. The Scourge in particular takes this one step further, by altering necrotic energy to free souls of Joko's influence (essentially protecting them being controlled by stronger forces). If I had to take a guess as its origin, its very likely started with Naruto and Full Metal Alchemist, and traced those influences to build the lore for Scourge. I mean the Sand Magic angle is brutally obvious, but the way Souls are utilized would only make sense of you're familiar with the latter story.

For theif's Shadow Arts (and most of their traits in general) are based on Stage magic; misdirection, slight of hand, and exploiting blind spots in human perception. While most of Tyria's occupants have access to magic, each of the professions are substantially different in how they use it. Its actually a lot easier to consider "Magic" in guild wars to be Raw energy, with multiple sources, and many ways to manipulate it. Warrior and Thief are the 2 classes that leverage magic the least, and is used more to enhance physical abilities. Engineers almost don't use magic at all (being of Charr origin), but over time have adopted it as an enhanced power source for their weapons.As for its definition, the only relationship Shadow and Death has is a quirk of superstition, and later reinforced through various religions equating darkness (which humans naturally fear, as it interferes with our sense of sight) to "Evil" and Danger, and Light being the source of good and protection (which we favor because it helps us see danger coming).

Now Mesmers are based on an amalgamation of lesser known styles of magic, mostly because their type of abilities are often rolled up into other magical Archetypes. Its core theme, however, is based on the "Enchantress"- a villainess (Female) archetype, whose primary method of attack is alternating the state of mind of a victim, and subverting them for their own cause. This is where the Illusionist angle of the class comes from, as Mesmer illusions don't physically exist.... the target(s) just think they do. As an example- If a Thief uses Stealth, they do so by physically being out of sight. When a Mesmer uses Stealth, they're convincing everyone around them that they don't exist at all. If you look at the Mesmer skill list from Guildwars 1, there are many references to psychological themes, mental disorders, and neuroscience.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_mesmer_skills

HOWEVER!!! Theres an additional caveat to Guildwars 2 Mesmers that didn't really exist in Guildwars 1...... Memsers are OP as FUCK. And I'm not talking about mechanically..... At lower levels of power, Mesmers can manipulate people's "perception" of reality. But at higher levels of power, they can "alter reality itself". If you're into Guildwars lore theorycrafting, this is one of the biggest realizations you can make about the relationship between Magic, the Mists, and how Tyria as a world operates. The "Butterfly magic", as you refer to it as, is a manifestation of their training as stage performers; but the class itself is built on mental fortitude, abstract thinking, psychology, and manipulation of world space. Chornomancers alter the flow the time in small pockets. Mirage are something I'm still mulling over.... its more visually oriented, and you could argue that its manipulating light much in the way Holosmith does.

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Doctor Hide.6345 said:

@Mayama.1854 said:

Shadow Magic would likely be conjuring shadows, or the lack of visible light, and focuses more heavily on trickery and deception.

First off, I have to fix a fallacy in your post. English is my first language,and yes, sometimes I take things literal because you have to do it. If I ask for an orange, I don't want someone to bring me an apple instead. Otherwise though, it was an interesting read.

You don't "have to take things literally"....... It should be normal to contemplate a phrase for multiple meanings, and match it to the one that makes the most sense. Otherwise you end up like up Drax from Guardians of the Galaxy. Nothing goes over his head; his reflexes are too fast.

@starlinvf.1358 said:You don't "have to take things literally"....... It should be normal to contemplate a phrase for multiple meanings, and match it to the one that makes the most sense. Otherwise you end up like up Drax from Guardians of the Galaxy. Nothing goes over his head; his reflexes are too fast.

No, it shouldn't be normal for all circumstances/context/situations. If I am working on a car, I ask for a wrench; I don't want the person I am asking does he really mean a wrench? or does he really mean a screwdriver?

I look at things through a logical lens in which I group them a lot of times. Domain=Whatever species you play as Kingdom= Magic Phyla= type of magic Class=Profession etc An example, when someone says shadow magic, I expect to see plays of the shadows; stuff popping out of nowhere. When I say death magic, I expect curses/poisons/dots and well death that goes with it.

Yes, a line can have multiple meanings, but it is usually the simplest and easiest one that fits the context it is in. Not everything is a like spy game where people are talking on multiple levels.

@"Doctor Hide.6345" said:I have always wondered what was the main difference between death and shadow magic. Is shadow magic just more tricks and playing with the light and disappearing? The words shadow magic sound kind of evil, but is it with how Thiefs interact with it?

Death Magic is a manipulation of life and death, thus the name ought to be a given. Someone already explained the shades so won't talk about that but I want to point out that the shades are made of sand.

Now someone mentioned about Mesmer's "butterfly magic". Well both Illusion magic and Shadow magic comes from Lyssa. The magic is all about manipulating perception. However, illusions, phantoms, and clones are physical manifestation of magic while Shadow magic is not. Shadow magic, as the name implies, manipulates shadows and darkness. Thus the Thief has access to stealth, shadowstep, and a lot blind.

ArenaNet has not explored this area of GW2. For instance, Shadowstep is not teleportation. Teleportation is a form of time manipulation where time stops and the subject moves to another location before reactivating time again. In science, teleportation is reducing the subject to subatomic level where time does not apply then traveled and restored to a target location. Shadowstep is melding with shadow as a form of displacement appearing anywhere there is a shadow, which is everywhere. This is why I have suggested that shadowstep should have an evade mechanic built into the skill (now Guardian has no business using shadow magic nor teleportation, so it must be nerfed to a leap instead). In GW1, the Assassin profession does not have stealth, instead, they use Shadow magic to take on a shadow form. Shadow Form is the kind of skill that Thief needs instead they gave this skill to Elementalist in a skill called Mist Form.

Now that a lot of mechanics are being mixed and matched (e.g. Mirage having their own form of stealth attack called Ambush, Elementalist having Dual-wield), it's time that ArenaNet explore Shadow Magic and allow Thief to physically manifest shadow. DE has a skill called Binding Shadow, which is a classic shadow magic called Shadow Stitching where the target's shadow is sewed to the ground leaving them immobilized. DE's skill Shadow Gust is like forcing a target to shadowstep away -- I would like this to be a trap though.

The full potential of Shadow Magic is yet to be discovered, e.g. Shadow Spike, an unblockable Shadow attack; Lingering Shadows, manifest a Shadow Clone when leaving stealth or after using shadowstep; Shadow Bomb, cause damage, blind, weakness, and confusion; Pull Shadow, target is knocked down. Etc. -- I digress.

@starlinvf.1358 said:For theif's Shadow Arts (and most of their traits in general) are based on Stage magic; misdirection, slight of hand, and exploiting blind spots in human perception.

You just described Trickery, not Shadow Arts.