My attempt to convert Guardian into DnD 5e

Greetings Commanders

For the last few months i started to convert Gw2 classes into DnD 5e.I started with guardian and this is my first draft.

These classes will function as replacements for the traditional 5e classes and thus will share some of their features and roles.

My goal with guardian was to emulate three different playstyles that hone into the historical roots of the guardians (ritualists from cantha, paragon from elona and the Gw1 Monk from core tyria). These will function as main subclasses akin to elite-specs

Further i gave guardian a second subclass to choose from witch defines its role (damage, tank and support) which come in the form of the core guardian virtues.

Otherwise guardians function similarly to paladins in 5e and thus share many if their features.

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/zacOaI9uJ

Any feedback is welcome.

Complex and cool

@KeoLegend.5132 said:Complex and cool

Thx, finally an answer :)

How do you think is the balancing? I was afraid that it may be a bit too bloated.

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@KeoLegend.5132 said:Complex and cool

Well, it is a bit too bloated, at least for a casual RPG player.But i really liked everything about the class, and it felt balanced to me. But take it with a grain of salt cuz i have a hard fall for Guardians hahaDef using your class once i get invited to play D&D

@KeoLegend.5132 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@KeoLegend.5132 said:Complex and cool

Always ask the DM first though, otherwise a standard paladin still is a good fit and very strong at that.

It is a bit bloated, but i generally combined class fearures from paladin (most of it), cleric (3 channel divinities/conviction and divine/virtuous intervention) and warlock (the three inheritances resemble warlock pacts).

I tried to avoid the double features on level ups and give one feature per level but most 5e classes are front loaded so i tried to fit the mold but still keep it streamlined.

If you know someone else that is familiar with the system i would be happy for additional feedback though.

I would say that you're a bit to generous with the health pool. Afterall, GW2 guardian is part of the low health pool crew.

@Dadnir.5038 said:I would say that you're a bit to generous with the health pool. Afterall, GW2 guardian is part of the low health pool crew.

Well guardian will have the lowest HP from all heavy classes and because 5e health scaling is a bit random i opted for similar health ranges as in 5e. (guard got the cleric hit dice).

Warrior will get the d12, rev the d10 and guard gets the d8.

Ranger will have the d10 (with all armor proficiencies except heavy) , engineer the d8 (with all armor proficiencies except heavy) and thief also a d8 (with only light armor and no shield proficiency)

Necro will get a d10 but only with light armor.Mesmer will get a d8 and only with light armor.And ele will get the d6 without any armor proficiency whatsoever.

This way i think it is on par with the gw2 health scaling/defensive capabilities.

Lets see, after a quick read:You have the same amount of features, as a Paladins, up to level 18. The problem is, the features you gave Guardian is often much better than Paladins. For example, on the first two levels, you get a Warlock Boon Light™, Lay on Hands, Spellcasting, Smite, and Aegis. Smite, Spellcasting and Lay on Hands are the same/similar to the Paladin features, whereas your level one feature is much stronger, than Divine Sense, which Paladins get. The level two feature Aegis competes with the level three Paladin feature Divine Health, which is again, much stronger. It is harder to compare after that, since Paladins get a lor of Oath features from then on.

You also let the players pick two subclasses: one Inheritance, and one Virtue. While versatility is interesting, it will lead to broken combinations, especially if you toss in multiclassing.

After a quick read-through, it seems too strong to me, so I wouldn't allow it in my normal games. I would allow them using this, if we have a whole set of classes, on similar power levels to this. (A whole set of GW2 homebrew classes and races could be a lot of fun.) I could be totally wrong 'tho, but some playtesting could reveal that.

(Also I see you have a whole homebrew compendium, with Bladeward and True Strike reworks, any chance I can get a link to those?)

@wasss.1208 said:Lets see, after a quick read:You have the same amount of features, as a Paladins, up to level 18. The problem is, the features you gave Guardian is often much better than Paladins. For example, on the first two levels, you get a Warlock Boon Light™, Lay on Hands, Spellcasting, Smite, and Aegis. Smite, Spellcasting and Lay on Hands are the same/similar to the Paladin features, whereas your level one feature is much stronger, than Divine Sense, which Paladins get. The level two feature Aegis competes with the level three Paladin feature Divine Health, which is again, much stronger. It is harder to compare after that, since Paladins get a lor of Oath features from then on.

You also let the players pick two subclasses: one Inheritance, and one Virtue. While versatility is interesting, it will lead to broken combinations, especially if you toss in multiclassing.

After a quick read-through, it seems too strong to me, so I wouldn't allow it in my normal games. I would allow them using this, if we have a whole set of classes, on similar power levels to this. (A whole set of GW2 homebrew classes and races could be a lot of fun.) I could be totally wrong 'tho, but some playtesting could reveal that.

(Also I see you have a whole homebrew compendium, with Bladeward and True Strike reworks, any chance I can get a link to those?)

On the compendium: i am still working on that. It will include races, classes, spell reworks and some rules for combofields and asura waymarks. I will post it when its ready. (warrior is soon ready, as soon as i finish the weapon burst list)

On the critique:

I know it has more powerful features as a core paladin. This is due to the fact that i will condense class abilities and roles and it might need some tweaking.

I designed them not particularly with multiclassing in mind. (although it could be possible if i am able to tweak most stuff).

Most classes will have a similar power level though. Warrior will be get a similar mechanic between superiority dice and Ki. And because berderker is a warrior subclass it will ifc get rage there. So there will be definetmy some stronger classes here than in base 5e.

I remove most poison resistances/immunities from classes because i want to give poison (as it is in the game) a more meaningful role as a damage type.

Further i removed certain capabilities from base paladin to be a choice instead of baseline. For example: the bonus to saves is not universal, only when you choose the right virtue, as is for the baseline radiant damage on weapon attacks when you reach level 11 etc.I hoped these changes would keep it a bit more balanced.

I want to keep the dual subclass system with guardian because it melded so well with the lore of the class and the mechanical identity of the virtues.

I wanted to ask if certain broken combinations come to your mind already, so i can look at them and maybe fix/tweak them.

Do you have any opinion on the specific subclass features that would need certain fixing? Is there any critique on the flavoring/mechanical identity of each subclass?

thx for the feedback btw, always glad to get some comprehensive feedback.

@InsaneQR.7412 said:On the compendium: i am still working on that. It will include races, classes, spell reworks and some rules for combofields and asura waymarks. I will post it when its ready. (warrior is soon ready, as soon as i finish the weapon burst list)Can't wait to read it.

I designed them not particularly with multiclassing in mind. (although it could be possible if i am able to tweak most stuff).Multiclassing is optional rule, the DM can decide to rule it out. I would probably do that, if I used these homebrew classes. (Although it usually leads to a lot of complaining from the players)

Most classes will have a similar power level though. Warrior will be get a similar mechanic between superiority dice and Ki. And because berderker is a warrior subclass it will ifc get rage there. So there will be definetmy some stronger classes here than in base 5e.If the classes has similar power level, then having stronger classes is fine. Having big differences between classes is much worse, than having only powerful ones. (Looking at you, ranger) (Also Berserker with Reckless Attack, or riot. I love how double edged that feature is.)

I remove most poison resistances/immunities from classes because i want to give poison (as it is in the game) a more meaningful role as a damage type.That is good to hear, poison (other than a selected few items) are really underwhelming.

Further i removed certain capabilities from base paladin to be a choice instead of baseline. For example: the bonus to saves is not universal, only when you choose the right virtue, as is for the baseline radiant damage on weapon attacks when you reach level 11 etc.I hoped these changes would keep it a bit more balanced.

I want to keep the dual subclass system with guardian because it melded so well with the lore of the class and the mechanical identity of the virtues.

I wanted to ask if certain broken combinations come to your mind already, so i can look at them and maybe fix/tweak them.

Wrote down some, that I found after reading through a few times. But by my experience, players find these, or worse combinations even more efficently. I'm going to run a few oneshots when more classes are ready, with my team, to find them.

Do you have any opinion on the specific subclass features that would need certain fixing? Is there any critique on the flavoring/mechanical identity of each subclass?

At the moment Virtue of Courage seems outstanding, compared to the other two. Aura of Warding >> Improved Hands of Resolve, Aura of Protection sounds broken. This subclass also has access to Shield spell. Shield spell is incredibly strong on Paladins. Plate armor 18, Shield 2, Aegis 2, Shield of Faith 2, that is 24AC for 10 minutes, for 1 level 1 slot. Use Shield spell to get to 29 for a turn. Giving full cover with a feature to someone is powerful as well: give it to someone with fly, they can't be meleed, they can't be ranged, they can only be attacked with save spells, which they got a +3 bonus to. (Even if you don't consider flying, full cover means you are immune to ranged attacks for the whole duration.)Add Exemplary Inheritance with Interception, and you have a pretty solid tank. This one also has a 30 feet AoE taunt against a will save, per long rest.

Or max out charisma, get 15 str (or be a dwarf), pick Ceremonial Inheritance, which is Pact of Chain Light+Tome Light+makes your character a summoner. All of them at level one. (Beign able to summon anything as a Guardian is strange for me, since summoning spells has a lot of demon, fey, undead, and even elementals. Also a lot of these summons has built-in drawbacks, as you can lose your concentration, risking the summoned thing breaking free, which thematically fits Warlocks, or reckless Wizards, but it would be strange on Guardian) This way you can armor up as much as you want, (22 with Aegis, +5 with shield if needed) your damage comes from Toll the Dead, which is a pretty solid damage cantrip, + the summoned stuff deals damage, + you protect your team with Virtue of Courage auras, and can heal if needed from your LoH pool. (To be honest, base Paladin has similar issues)

@""wasss.1208"Wait courage does not get improved hands of resolve, they get improved aegis.

The full cover is something i should change. Its to strong with flying thats correct.

Summon spells get a bit changed in my compendium, so there will be different flavored summons.

The summons will probably just disappear if you lose concentration. (but i am not on it yet, so let's see)

Mainly i wanted to emulate the ritualist part of guardian thats why i enable summoning spells. They have to be gathered though and can't be learned otherwise (except one per level uplalso they are limited to level 1-5 summoning spells which are often more utilitarian especially because guards get 3rd levels spells at 9th level which is already in the mid game.

I think i remove shield as a spell and replace it with shield of faith or something similar. Because it is really strong in getting high AC. Although it is still prone to saves (which also ruins the aegis quite often). I will add in a caviat that aegis can only be used on other creatures to ensure that no guard stacks AC as a madman.

Note on the upcoming warrior class: No reckless attack will not be a class feature per se of berserker. I will add it as a primal burst though (so basically similar to a maneuver). It will function basically the same except that it does cost 1 adrenalin and that it can be used instead of paying the adrenalin cost to keep your rage going.

But you will see^^

@"InsaneQR.7412" said:Wait courage does not get improved hands of resolve, they get improved aegis.

"Aura of Warding >> Improved Hands of Resolve" >> means "much stronger". They are kind of the same, but one costs you resources and action, the other just works passively, and does almost the same thing, better. Similar to how Aura of Courage >> Countercharm. Normally the counterplay/punishment would be using AoE spells, so the team can't stack freely, but Aura of Protection halves all spell damage. You could try to punish with traps, but traps are usually disliked.

Summon spells get a bit changed in my compendium, so there will be different flavored summons.

The summons will probably just disappear if you lose concentration. (but i am not on it yet, so let's see)

If you don't want to give any of the classes any of the currently existing summons, then go for it. Otherwise I would recomment making a "you can summon these" table to the subclass. Like level 3 -> you can summon a ghostly guard for one spell slot, using the normal guard statblock+ethereal bonus. (That could be also used for the mesmer. Phantasmal Berserker -> Summon a Berserker (NPC) for 1-2 turns)

Mainly i wanted to emulate the ritualist part of guardian thats why i enable summoning spells. They have to be gathered though and can't be learned otherwise (except one per level uplalso they are limited to level 1-5 summoning spells which are often more utilitarian especially because guards get 3rd levels spells at 9th level which is already in the mid game.

I think i remove shield as a spell and replace it with shield of faith or something similar. Because it is really strong in getting high AC. Although it is still prone to saves (which also ruins the aegis quite often). I will add in a caviat that aegis can only be used on other creatures to ensure that no guard stacks AC as a madman.

Shield of Faith is already on your Guardian spell list, that is why I included it in the AC rundown. While it is prone to saves, Resilient feat exists. If you don't ban (or rework) variant human, it can have Wis+Cha+Dex+Con saves by level 4. (while feats are optional rules, similar to multiclassing, I wouldn't rule that out, since standard ASI is boring)

Note on the upcoming warrior class: No reckless attack will not be a class feature per se of berserker. I will add it as a primal burst though (so basically similar to a maneuver). It will function basically the same except that it does cost 1 adrenalin and that it can be used instead of paying the adrenalin cost to keep your rage going.

But you will see^^

Insert a specific crying frog gif here, with hands. Anyways, I already told my team that we might run GW2 themed oneshots in the future.

@""wasss.1208"Well improved hands of resolve can be used to rezz ppl and it comes online 4 levels earlier.

I may tune down the aura of warding a bit and reduce a bit of its effectiveness. I am happy about the hands though.

Yeah i thought giving courage shield of faith may be a bit too much of doubling down on granting temporary AC, thus i thought shield may be better because its is still on the tanky theme but is more selfish.I think adding the caviat to aegis that it cant be applied to yourself should fix most "Uber AC" scenarios because guards have limited spell slots.

I will not ban feats but i will change humans in general. Races will function more like eberron mark races. Especially humans will get certain spells that are fitting to the six gods (so basically humans can choose a domain that grants them spells that can be used once per day or with spell slots if they have the spell casting/mantra casting feature)

@""wasss.1208"

So i did the following changes: Aegis can only be applied to one creature at the time and not on yourself.Improved aegis does not grant full cover anymore.

I kept shield as a spell for courage. It requires resources to cast shield constantly and even more if you slap shield of faith on it. So the more you use shield the less often you smite.The channel conviction: shield of courage seems fine by me because it only last one round.

Id didn't change aura of warding although it has a stronger permanent effect than hands of resolve.Aura of Warding comes online 4 levels later and although it has a permanent effect it does not heal allies nor can it remove blindness/deafness, pertrifications, curses/banes/etc. (if 5th level or lower) or exhaustion.So i think personally it is fitting and balances out. Especially because you can reposition your allies with aura of serenity later on and keep them out of harms way.

I will post the warrior in the next few days in the warrior forum, with the included weapon burst list.I put everything on reddit when i finish all classes and when i have all art sourced available to do so.

Looks awesome. Has this been done for the elementalist yet?

@wardog.3598 said:Looks awesome. Has this been done for the elementalist yet?

Yes but not from me.

Ele will be a fun one tbh.

Wanted to give it 4 spell lists with individual spell slots per spell list. And some meta magic from 5e sorcerer.

But it is in its infant state atm.First i finish warrior and rev. Then i may do ele, mesmer and the medium professions. Necro will be last.

i ended doing the reverse of what OP showed on external link, every build i try i end like:

A) potatoguard hight vit 0 healingB ) power glass canoinc medium 0 healingC) power % condi glass canon low Hp but some healing powerD) condi class canon or condi not fiting the theme :\

Barrier should belong to guardian xD not scourge wich can reach 25-30k hp lol xD

@Aeolus.3615 said:i ended doing the reverse of what OP showed on external link, every build i try i end like:

A) potatoguard hight vit 0 healingB ) power glass canoinc medium 0 healingC) power % condi glass canon low Hp but some healing powerD) condi class canon or condi not fiting the theme :\

Barrier should belong to guardian xD not scourge wich can reach 25-30k hp lol xD

I have trouble following the meaning of your comment.

Could you elaborate in what way my 5e Homebrew relates to your builds?

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:i ended doing the reverse of what OP showed on external link, every build i try i end like:

A) potatoguard hight vit 0 healingB ) power glass canoinc medium 0 healingC) power % condi glass canon low Hp but some healing powerD) condi class canon or condi not fiting the theme :\

Barrier should belong to guardian xD not scourge wich can reach 25-30k hp lol xD

One can use guardian from gw2 to build something in DnD, other way arround is impossible..