Ele consistently out-DPSed by DH and warriors. ANET fix it

So I am there in T4 fractals or raid praying that the boss will not break my long casting meteor spell that has a useless massive hitbox and dealing with the complexities of my class, so that I can hopefully pull some damage, while the rest are just slamming their fingers on their keyboards playing their simplistic classes pulling in many cases SEVERAL THOUSANDs more DPS than our Eles! This is far too unbalanced, Ele as a DPS class is already not viable in PvP and now is becoming rather useless in PvE too. Then have warriors go "AHAHAHA I do more damage than Ele!!!" Thank you ANET for messing this so badly, it has sucked the fun out of playing Ele and if this is not fixed I am personally out.

All I can say these days is that unfortunately our DPS has become massively based on the game mechanics or if there are adds or what the hitbox size is. We play a rather squishy and complex class while others just slam the keys on their keyboard and rub their DPS in our faces as if it is a JOKE. What else do I bring to the group? Well nothing.

With all due respect, that's a problem on your part. Learn to play the class and you won't be consistently outdps-ed by warriors.

It is rather presumptuous of you to say that I do not know how to play my class, but hey that is the obvious and rather trollish/unhelpful answer so typical to these forums. Go troll someone else.

Would be great if these discussion were accompanied with videos showing or disproving the problem.

You two could meet ingame and record it. Feanor shows his superdupa awesome ele rotation and Yreal his DH and/or Warrior rotation that is totally more awesome. And then you compare.

doubulo posuto

With all due respect, that's a problem on your part. Learn to play the class and you won't be consistently outdps-ed by warriors. > @Yreal.6937 said:

It is rather presumptuous of you to say that I do not know how to play my class, but hey that is the obvious and rather trollish/unhelpful answer so typical to these forums. Go troll someone else.

No, it's not presumptions. It's based on solid facts, i.e. I never get outdps-ed by warriors unless I fuck up royally.

I would like to see you consistently out-DPSing them in Aetherblades or Deimos, and these are just two examples of the many cases where the emchanics are completely against us but it doesn't seem to faze warriors, etc. It takes hard practise to time the Staff Ele long casting spells in such a way as to be top damage while the game mechanics are continuously working against us. Our DPS is only meangiful on specific bosses and when there are adds present, then we can make some difference. But hey, warriors just rolled new spec only last month and are already mincing us irrespective of mechanics. If you think that's fair, kudos to you. I still find your statements rather empty and unhelpful.

@Yreal.6937 said:I still find your statements rather empty and unhelpful.

No offense m8, but you said "ANet fix it" so any response from anyone that isn't ANet probably won't satisfy you. Maybe open a support ticket or something, since us players clearly can't fix it for you besides saying "git gud" or "tough turtles".

How is ele not viable in pvp? Core ele FA is one of the strongest builds right now. It works wonders against spellbreakers.

As far as deimos. Uhm, if you can’t pull of a meteor shower cause you have to dodge the slamm attack then what on earth is your chrono doing?

Even then, as you said yourself,”it takes practice”.

To be serious, if you constantly get out-dpsed by ps warriors than its on you to get better. Practise the rotation more, get the right gear, the right food and get experience at the bosses. I saw quite a few Eles that made less dps than me when I'm on a CPS. But everytime its due to either getting downed very often, being afraid of getting downed so much that they stand on spots where buffs can't reach them, messing up the rotation hard. Good eles that I see, and there aren't that many, are constantly on the first place in DPS.

So its a L2P issue and not a balance issue.

@Yreal.6937 said:I would like to see you consistently out-DPSing them in Aetherblades or Deimos, and these are just two examples of the many cases where the emchanics are completely against us but it doesn't seem to faze warriors, etc. It takes hard practise to time the Staff Ele long casting spells in such a way as to be top damage while the game mechanics are continuously working against us. Our DPS is only meangiful on specific bosses and when there are adds present, then we can make some difference. But hey, warriors just rolled new spec only last month and are already mincing us irrespective of mechanics. If you think that's fair, kudos to you. I still find your statements rather empty and unhelpful.

No problem. Here are my latest 3 Deimos logs from Arc:https://dps.report/H7OO-20171024-212800_deihttps://dps.report/XN2q-20171024-213709_deihttps://dps.report/N4KX-20171031-202255_dei

As you can see, I'm always comfortably ahead of the warriors unless I make a major mistake and die. Pointing out Deimos mechanics in particular as "being against us" really tells me you don't have a good grasp on our class. At least not in high-end PvE.

Let me also say that I'm comfortable playing ele on 12 out of 13 raid bosses and every fractal in existence. The only boss where our class is outright bad dps choice is Matthias. Everywhere you can be at least decent, though often not optimal. Since PoF I usually play other classes more, but I still end up playing my main in 8/13 bosses. The remaining 5 are split between Mirage (Matthias and Cairn) and Firebrand (Sabetha, Sloth & Trio). This can be a subject to change, of course. We'll have to wait and see what Tuesday brings us. But the status quo? Ele is a fine dps class. If you get consistently outdps-ed it's not ANet's fault, it's yours.

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Yreal.6937 said:I would like to see you consistently out-DPSing them in Aetherblades or Deimos, and these are just two examples of the many cases where the emchanics are completely against us but it doesn't seem to faze warriors, etc. It takes hard practise to time the Staff Ele long casting spells in such a way as to be top damage while the game mechanics are continuously working against us. Our DPS is only meangiful on specific bosses and when there are adds present, then we can make some difference. But hey, warriors just rolled new spec only last month and are already mincing us irrespective of mechanics. If you think that's fair, kudos to you. I still find your statements rather empty and unhelpful.

Feanor is right, if you can’t out dps the warrior then it is your fault and your problem not the class. Mind you a good warrior will pull 20k cleave and anything from 12-15k on boss so it’s not exactly a low bar for a support spec. The weaver staff rotation is not easy to pull off so you need to practise on all bosses, know when to meteor, when not to and how to fit your rotation into the attack patterns. Other classes will be easier than weaver to pull that DPS off with so if you have trouble either practise or switch.

Thats true but you can spike your critical damage and outcrit the warriors :P Im using Power precision and condition damage and works quite well, but it would be awesome is Anet fixed the damn sword.

The OP talks about T4 fractals, and a staff ele (he mentions Meteor Shower), and I happen to exclusively play a staff Tempest in T4 fractals. I don't have the problem of the OP. I am almost always the one with most damage dealt during an encounter. Sometimes, someone joins who deals a bit more damage on certain bosses, but that's not "several thousands more DPS" than me. Well, sometimes I don't get quite into one encounter and fight to survive instead of fighting the boss, but we all have these times.

As Ele you have to learn how to dance in front of the boss, and how to stand still to cast your channeling skills. Timing and anticipating incoming damage is very important.I'm full berserk gear with fractal potions and berserk buff food: 1000 vitality and 1000 toughness. I'm comfortable with that, and I'm even last man standing once in a while.I found Arcane Shield very helpful and Lightning Flash. The former very important in a weak group where you have to rezz often, and the latter in fights where you often have to escape red damage fields while you are channeling your meteor shower. Channeling is not aborted while you use Lighting Flash.

Well you just made a big “L2P” post for the OP as we all did :)

Btw. OP was talking about raids and fractals.

But it all comes down to “learn the class and encounter” before you can start expecting to be top deeps.

@Yreal.6937 said:So I am there in T4 fractals or raid praying that the boss will not break my long casting meteor spell that has a useless massive hitbox and dealing with the complexities of my class, so that I can hopefully pull some damage, while the rest are just slamming their fingers on their keyboards playing their simplistic classes pulling in many cases SEVERAL THOUSANDs more DPS than our Eles! This is far too unbalanced, Ele as a DPS class is already not viable in PvP and now is becoming rather useless in PvE too. Then have warriors go "AHAHAHA I do more damage than Ele!!!" Thank you ANET for messing this so badly, it has sucked the fun out of playing Ele and if this is not fixed I am personally out.

All I can say these days is that unfortunately our DPS has become massively based on the game mechanics or if there are adds or what the hitbox size is. We play a rather squishy and complex class while others just slam the keys on their keyboard and rub their DPS in our faces as if it is a JOKE. What else do I bring to the group? Well nothing.

ah the dps meter wars mentality again. My tip, stop worrying about what other people are doing and just focus on improving what you do and what you enjoy doing. Balance is only required in PVP.

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Yreal.6937 said:So I am there in T4 fractals or raid praying that the boss will not break my long casting meteor spell that has a useless massive hitbox and dealing with the complexities of my class, so that I can hopefully pull some damage, while the rest are just slamming their fingers on their keyboards playing their simplistic classes pulling in many cases SEVERAL THOUSANDs more DPS than our Eles! This is far too unbalanced, Ele as a DPS class is already not viable in PvP and now is becoming rather useless in PvE too. Then have warriors go "AHAHAHA I do more damage than Ele!!!" Thank you ANET for messing this so badly, it has sucked the fun out of playing Ele and if this is not fixed I am personally out.

All I can say these days is that unfortunately our DPS has become massively based on the game mechanics or if there are adds or what the hitbox size is. We play a rather squishy and complex class while others just slam the keys on their keyboard and rub their DPS in our faces as if it is a JOKE. What else do I bring to the group? Well nothing.

Pretty much this. Stay alive, enjoy the content and just don’t be a burden more than anything.

@Raguel.9402 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Yreal.6937 said:So I am there in T4 fractals or raid praying that the boss will not break my long casting meteor spell that has a useless massive hitbox and dealing with the complexities of my class, so that I can hopefully pull some damage, while the rest are just slamming their fingers on their keyboards playing their simplistic classes pulling in many cases SEVERAL THOUSANDs more DPS than our Eles! This is far too unbalanced, Ele as a DPS class is already not viable in PvP and now is becoming rather useless in PvE too. Then have warriors go "AHAHAHA I do more damage than Ele!!!" Thank you ANET for messing this so badly, it has sucked the fun out of playing Ele and if this is not fixed I am personally out.

All I can say these days is that unfortunately our DPS has become massively based on the game mechanics or if there are adds or what the hitbox size is. We play a rather squishy and complex class while others just slam the keys on their keyboard and rub their DPS in our faces as if it is a JOKE. What else do I bring to the group? Well nothing.

"Not being a burden" depends on your point of view. In a more casual run, sure - just staying alive and doing something would be enough. In a meta run if you're a damage dealer and you're dealing less damage than a support you're quite literally being a burden. So I'd urge OP to decide if he wants the casual runs or the meta ones. And if he picks the latter, to put some effort into practicing.

Feanor.2358No problem. Here are my latest 3 Deimos logs from Arc:/home/leaving?target=https%3A%2F%2Fdps.report%2FH7OO-20171024-212800_dei" class="Popup/home/leaving?target=https%3A%2F%2Fdps.report%2FXN2q-20171024-213709_dei" class="Popup/home/leaving?target=https%3A%2F%2Fdps.report%2FN4KX-20171031-202255_dei" class="Popup

A video would be better.

@Kashrlyyk.5364 said:

Feanor.2358No problem. Here are my latest 3 Deimos logs from Arc:/home/leaving?target=https%3A%2F%2Fdps.report%2FH7OO-20171024-212800_dei" class="Popup/home/leaving?target=https%3A%2F%2Fdps.report%2FXN2q-20171024-213709_dei" class="Popup/home/leaving?target=https%3A%2F%2Fdps.report%2FN4KX-20171031-202255_dei" class="Popup

I don't record video on my raiding. My guild is pretty casual, so it serves no purpose. Raid logs I record for personal and group improvements. In any case, you can look up Deimos videos on YouTube. We're doing mid/safe strategy in case you wonder.

Ele is in a fantastic spot for DPS for both tempest and weaver. Perhaps try look up some decent meta builds and work on your encounters/rotation because ele has all the tools to be top tier. What one build for raids may not suite fractals and some builds are more catered for speed run. A more toned down version may improve your dps because you won't be subjected to major damage losses if you mess up your rotation.

I still play fresh air, it's not highest potential build but it's rotation and wiggle room for me is more efficient. Weaver can be a nightmare but if you master it you should be be doing top tier dmg.

Raid builds are perfectly suitable for fractals, provided you play in a meta comp. It's just half a raid squad really. so there's no reason for it to be inefficient. That being said, using a suboptimal build is perfectly fine as well. Fresh Air can produce plenty of dps.

Thank you all for all the comments, indeed my issue is that warrior and DH etc don't seem to be fazed so much about mechanics as Ele's are, and it feels unbalanced there at least for me. If the mechanics permit then my DPS is top without questioning, I have been playing since level 80 with a glass canon spec and full asc gear and have improved a lot, I do consider myself a descent Ele. My issue is that warriors and DH seem to not be fazed by the mechanics, I've seen them consistently doing over 23k DPS while I am breaking long casting spells due to mechanics and just about manage to stay below them in the DPS meter while when mechanics permit I then go top of the meter ofcourse. Indeed it requires practise with timing and learning the bosses better. What my complain is, why is it so much easier for them to consistently have good DPS and so much harder for us Ele's. And this is where I see the imbalance and therefore why there are so few amazing Eles because we have to work quite a lot on each encounter so that we can eventually improve on our DPS. It does get into my nerves sometimes, especially lately where warriors started being really cocky. Before the expansion I didn't have these kind of problems. I see my DPS as being mechanics dependent. And I truly feel there is a lot of extra difficulty in the Ele game play compare to warriors. And yes I would like to see this balancing better. Alternatively yes I could keep trying and playing and practising to improve, but I think the fact that we have so few Great Eles shows how much it takes for this to happen, while I cannot argue that all those warriors have taken so long and so much skill to do that DPS, this is what really annoys me, I guess! It takes a lot of skill and practise to play an Ele and I wish they understood that and appreciate it, not just expect us to slam our fingers in our keyboard too and do miracles. Thank you, will try some of the suggestions here.

The difficulty imbalance is another matter. Yes, it's there, undoubtedly. But higher difficulty, being more susceptible to interruption and generally lacking anything on the side, is currently rewarded with higher dps. One balances the other. Again, this might change tomorrow. Seems like the prevailing opinion is all the builds should produce similar damage output regardless of their difficulty. I do not subscribe to that, but in any case I don't want to see Ele damage nerfed and gameplay dumbed down to make it comparable in both respects. It would erase some of ele's identity and will make the game less varied.

@Yreal.6937 said:Thank you all for all the comments, indeed my issue is that warrior and DH etc don't seem to be fazed so much about mechanics as Ele's are, and it feels unbalanced there at least for me. If the mechanics permit then my DPS is top without questioning, I have been playing since level 80 with a glass canon spec and full asc gear and have improved a lot, I do consider myself a descent Ele. My issue is that warriors and DH seem to not be fazed by the mechanics, I've seen them consistently doing over 23k DPS while I am breaking long casting spells due to mechanics and just about manage to stay below them in the DPS meter while when mechanics permit I then go top of the meter ofcourse. Indeed it requires practise with timing and learning the bosses better. What my complain is, why is it so much easier for them to consistently have good DPS and so much harder for us Ele's. And this is where I see the imbalance and therefore why there are so few amazing Eles because we have to work quite a lot on each encounter so that we can eventually improve on our DPS. It does get into my nerves sometimes, especially lately where warriors started being really cocky. Before the expansion I didn't have these kind of problems. I see my DPS as being mechanics dependent. And I truly feel there is a lot of extra difficulty in the Ele game play compare to warriors. And yes I would like to see this balancing better. Alternatively yes I could keep trying and playing and practising to improve, but I think the fact that we have so few Great Eles shows how much it takes for this to happen, while I cannot argue that all those warriors have taken so long and so much skill to do that DPS, this is what really annoys me, I guess! It takes a lot of skill and practise to play an Ele and I wish they understood that and appreciate it, not just expect us to slam our fingers in our keyboard too and do miracles. Thank you, will try some of the suggestions here.

Put it this way, elementalists are for people who dont want to roll their face over a keyboard and enjoy the satisfaction of getting slick with a complicated class :) Again dont worry about other peoples DPS, play your game not theirs, this isnt WOW. If they are being 'cocky' about dps then they are at the best being obnoxious and at worst dps whoring.