Update Mesmer Mantra's Charge Numbers

So firebrand's mantras have a base of 3 charges, Mesmer still only has 2 can you please update them to a base of 3 charages?

They used to have an option on Mesmer mantras for three charges, but this was removed because 3 charges is actually a HINDRANCE to the trait ["Restorative Mantras"](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Restorative_Mantras ""Restorative Mantras""). An extra cast of the mantra means extra time between channeling the mantra to gain an AoE heal. (The primary mantra to channel in this scenario is Mantra of Pain). If you want extra casts of the mantras, just let the ammo recharge... it's not like the final cast does extra effects over the inital cast like Firebrand does.

@Sojourner.4621 said:They used to have an option on Mesmer mantras for three charges, but this was removed because 3 charges is actually a HINDRANCE to the trait ["Restorative Mantras"](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Restorative_Mantras ""Restorative Mantras""). An extra cast of the mantra means extra time between channeling the mantra to gain an AoE heal. (The primary mantra to channel in this scenario is Mantra of Pain). If you want extra casts of the mantras, just let the ammo recharge... it's not like the final cast does extra effects over the inital cast like Firebrand does.

Well it actually is a big hindrance if you DON'T use restorative mantras, for example : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_ResolveI would much rather have a 3rd charge of Power Cleanse (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Cleanse) instead of channeling the whole mantra again for eternity, because in pvp sometimes / most of the times you don't have that luxury while you have 14 stacks of torment & 12 stacks of burning ticking on you. -

2¼ sec is too much time for channeling in a fast paced combat being wvw or pvp, most of the times in the heat of the battle you have less than a second to react or you die.& the channeling reward if not specced in to restorative mantras is absolutely negligible, lf while channeling mantra of resolve the resistance was granted while the channeling starts the it would be fine, but at the end of the channel ???? wtf is the point of it when you already have 2 power cleanse charges ?

It only makes you waste more attention on basically timing when would the resistance end so THEN you could use a power cleanse charge, instead of simply giving you 1 more Power Cleanse charge ... logic.

Hell id rather even give up the channeling aspect completely if I get to have more charges on the actual part of the skill that matters but then it wouldn't be a mantra i guess, so basically if i had a better condi clear than a mantra i would use it instead, but here we are - stuck with a slow channeling skills.

(if only Power Cleanse was just like jaunt it would have been much much better)

& to be honest i never met a person who would rather choose to be stuck in channeling animation instead of being able to do basically anything else while having an instant cast ability (as is every mantra's second part)

This channeling is a clunky, tedious, slow & boring mechanic that i absolutely despise & almost throw up when i see i have to charge the mantra again, but unfortunately cant get rid of it ... for now...

@Sasajoe.1509 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:They used to have an option on Mesmer mantras for three charges, but this was removed because 3 charges is actually a HINDRANCE to the trait ["Restorative Mantras"](

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Restorative_Mantras

""Restorative Mantras""). An extra cast of the mantra means extra time between channeling the mantra to gain an AoE heal. (The primary mantra to channel in this scenario is Mantra of Pain). If you want extra casts of the mantras, just let the ammo recharge... it's not like the final cast does extra effects over the inital cast like Firebrand does.

Well sure, it is a hindrance to non restorative builds... was just stating the reason it was gotten rid of... because ANet was pushing an agenda and hoping more people would use a trait that they felt more people should be using. That said, the fact that the charges of mantras refill now that the ammo system has been implemented, the most constructive use is letting it recharge without a re-channel. If you need to cleanse three times in quick succession, maybe you should retreat from that fight to begin with. The firebrand mantra's third charge is a different scenario because you have to run a risk/reward evaluation every time you use it... use it all for the more powerful third activation, but then risk the re-channel, or keep on first/second activations, letting ammo regen in between. It is certainly way more interesting gameplay but doesn't work for the agenda ANet was trying to push for mantra mesmer.

Imo mantras are a badly designed skills - remnants of the past when there were no skill charges in the game (as we know them now with PoF )-> they should be reworked completely.

Sure i get used to this current state of hindrance but that doesn't mean i like one bit.

They removed harmonious mantras because it made balancing mantras impossible. They had to be balanced around 3 charges, because we could potentially have 3 charges on them, but that made them gawdawful if you didn't take HM and only had the base 2 charges. Not to mention, it wasn't going to fit with the revamped mantra model anyway, so it had to be modified in some way.

What i meant by complete rework was that they should just ditch the channeling & it's effect & keep the instant cast charges while adding 1 more charge.

@Sasajoe.1509 said:What i meant by complete rework was that they should just ditch the channeling & it's effect & keep the instant cast charges while adding 1 more charge.

That's such a terrible design, especially when you don't provide context to your suggestion. How would giving a profession a set of skills where you can use without consequence, neither worrying about cast times nor interrupting other combat abilities, be a benefit to game balance?

@Sasajoe.1509 said:What i meant by complete rework was that they should just ditch the channeling & it's effect & keep the instant cast charges while adding 1 more charge.

1) It wouldn't be a mantra anymore.2) We already have too many instant casts in this game. Adding even more is a bad idea.

You want them to remove Mantra preparation time, leave charges as instant casts, and on top of it bring back the 3rd charge. How is this okay?

@bart.3687 said:

@Sasajoe.1509 said:What i meant by complete rework was that they should just ditch the channeling & it's effect & keep the instant cast charges while adding 1 more charge.

well jaunt is that way ... how is it ok then ? but not for mantras ?

& with all the condi spam in the game i certainly don't see any OP-ness if they make mantras that way - it would only make it more BALANCED & reliable condi clear - not that it would be still enough though.

@Ojimaru.8970 said:

@Sasajoe.1509 said:What i meant by complete rework was that they should just ditch the channeling & it's effect & keep the instant cast charges while adding 1 more charge.

Do you have any idea how many insta cast abilities are in the game?

@bart.3687 said:

@Sasajoe.1509 said:What i meant by complete rework was that they should just ditch the channeling & it's effect & keep the instant cast charges while adding 1 more charge.

Good mantras are a shit mechanic, they don't work.

@OriOri.8724 said:They removed harmonious mantras because it made balancing mantras impossible. They had to be balanced around 3 charges, because we could potentially have 3 charges on them, but that made them gawdawful if you didn't take HM and only had the base 2 charges. Not to mention, it wasn't going to fit with the revamped mantra model anyway, so it had to be modified in some way.

Except they didn't rebalance when they took away harmonious mantras.

Why are we even discussing whether Mantras work better with 3 or 2 charges if the whole skill type is so clunky and undercooked, it ought to be scrapped entirely and replaced with something more fitting and more well rounded?