Pros and Cons - New Herald — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Pros and Cons - New Herald

aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭
edited August 29, 2018 in Revenant

So let me just tip my hat to guild wars team.. WOW, the new herald is way way way better. I love the way it is. And there’s not much to change. But here are some things I find a lot of people complaining about and what I see in game that make it extremely difficult. Or how extremely awesome it is. So let’s get to it.

Pros-
1.The dps in pve is absolutely amazing. Impossible odds with the new master trait That gives 13% dmg, and then on top of that the other trait that gives 1% per boon... all I can say is thank you anet. I was hitting 32k on the golem with realistic buffs and on top of that I was getting 25-28k in raids. Such an awesome feeling.
2. The traits are perfectly in place
3. There is so much diversity with the legends... I can’t express this enough. In pvp I made an insane mally/glint condi/transfer build that worked so well and it kept up with the OP mesmers! I also made a bunker jails build that did great dmg with phenomenal bunking and the best part is your also supporting your team with it.
4. Facet of nature is pretty awesome.. the team supporting is perfect and supporting 10 players is awesome!
5. Pve herald support.. Ventari/glint harrier build.. wow what can I say, it competes with renegade and it does so well. Very pleased and extremely thankful for this so now I don’t just have to play just dps. Like I said very diverse.

Cons-
1. facet of nature shouldn’t be -3 and should AT LEAST -2.. -3 is a little over kill for glints facets in pvp and pve. Maybe tone it down a bit on one of the facets.
2. One with nature’s consumes should be a bit stronger. For example shiros leeching should at least be in the 200s like come on lol.. Ventari healing should be stronger too.. JUST A BIT doesn’t have to be crazy.
3. Pvp shiros impossible odds should be able to be used with facet of nature.. tone down the energy on either of the two preferably and like I’ve said already, facet of nature passive from -3 to -2 so we can at least use it In sync with impossible odds
4. Also glints facet of nature should be something else tbh it seems useless

This is all I can think of right now for my pros and cons, please leave comments below about your pros and cons. All in all I love it way more than what it used to be and fyi underwater glint is awesome!
8.5/10 for sure
Old herald was a good 7 at most.. so I’m happy could improve just in little spots just needs a little spit shine :P

<1

Comments

  • Rysdude.3824Rysdude.3824 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wouldnt happen to have a build to share for you mallyx/glint build?

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 29, 2018

    Some comments from the perspective of a support Herald:
    MINORS
    Fine. Good. Boring. Safe. No complaints. Sitting at 25k health now which is nice.
    ADEPT
    -Elder's Respite: Overall not a bad trait. However, I would only slot this if I ran Glint, which I usually do not because I don't like how passive it is as support. I would choose either of the other two adept traits over it. What would make me slot it: Keep the improved Regen. Scrap the Regen at 50% health. Instead, grant Regen (2s) to nearby allies (10 targets, 600 radius) when using a heal skill. I am still mourning the loss of AoE protection on heal. This would further the 10-target thing that is being introduced to Herald, and would solidify it as A++ for a WvW Herald like myself. Pretty please?
    -Core Value: Decent trait, but a wee bit lackluster. My suggestion: Additionally, reduce the cooldown of True Nature by 20%.
    -Rising Momentum: I personally find it fun, although I do miss the superspeed on stun-break.
    MASTER
    -Shared Empowerment: Overall an improvement, but Heralds aren't the best mightstackers. Won't slot. Not bad, but not appealing to me.
    -Shining Aspects: Tooltip doesn't show this applying to True Nature. Not that I would slot it anyway. Helpful for sustain for a power Herald I suppose. Probably the duddiest trait in my eyes. Suggestion further down.
    -Hardening Persistence: This is not bad considering it clears conditions per pulse on Shield 5. Not sure if this was cleansing conditions on nearby allies. I thought it said it was going to? If so, the tooltips do not reflect this.
    GRANDMASTER
    -Elevated Compassion: Meh....I mean it's not a bad trait, but I hate the ICD on it. You'd think this would be my go-to as a support Herald, but nope, at least not in WvW. Draconic Echo is so much more interesting. With this I get a rough equivalent to 2 stacks of regen for 5 allies (Regen + Facet of Nature, Ventari), with Draconic Echo I can apply any and all facets to 10 allies. My suggestion: Combine this with Shining Aspects into the master tier. Suddenly I would love this trait because it wouldn't compete with Draconic Echo, which it has a lot of natural synergy with.
    -Draconic Echo: Love this trait. Favorite of the traitline, hands down.
    -Forceful Persistence: No comment. Not relevant to my build.

    FACET OF NATURE
    Overall, upkeep costs seems too taxing. 2 would be much better.
    Shiro: Fitting. Didn't really play with this one much though. However, I tested this with my fiance and his siphoning was healing for less than mine, and I am in minstrel gear. Does this mean it is scaling off each player's stats? I suppose this is both a good and a bad thing.
    Mallyx: Oooh, I like this one! Seriously, I love running Mallyx/Shiro and I love to eat condis! Fun fun fun, especially with Draconic Echo. Hypothetically 10 conditions every 3 seconds with DE slotted.
    Ventari: Honestly...underwhelming. The healing is lackluster. Absolutely not worth using for 3 upkeep. I suggest increasing the modifier. Would have been nice if it was 1 condition removed for nearby allies per pulse, but perhaps that would have been too strong. Then again, Firebrand exists.
    Jalis: Admittedly I didn't play with it but it seems solid.
    Glint: Terrible. Sad. How does this even work? It doesn't increase boon duration on my character. The wording is weird. I didn't notice any difference with this on.

    TRUE NATURE
    Shiro: Solid.
    Mallyx: Solid
    Ventari: Solid but only with Core Value and Draconic Echo traited.
    Jalis: Solid. Great
    Glint: Terrible.

    Overall, I don't really know how to feel. Like I said in another post, I loooooooooove the direction they are taking Herald, like so much. I may seem bitter in this post but I really am just tired and matter-of-fact. I don't understand why some people are saying support Herald got huge buffs because really it was more of an exchange than anything. I am happy enough though. I love that the spec got attention. On a side note, I am really liking Demonic Resistance. I don't even have any condition power at all, but I still like the damage reduction it brings. I am trying to make a Corruption/Salvation/Herald Minstrel Mallyx/Ventari work...but I dunno if I can do without the stunbreak and other goodies from Invocation.

  • They removed all protection boons from Herald tree, probably I wont be able to handkite Deimos without the 33% less dmg

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    Wouldnt happen to have a build to share for you mallyx/glint build?

    I will give you the build ASAP! Give me a min kind sir

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    Some comments from the perspective of a support Herald:
    MINORS
    Fine. Good. Boring. Safe. No complaints. Sitting at 25k health now which is nice.
    ADEPT
    -Elder's Respite: Overall not a bad trait. However, I would only slot this if I ran Glint, which I usually do not because I don't like how passive it is as support. I would choose either of the other two adept traits over it. What would make me slot it: Keep the improved Regen. Scrap the Regen at 50% health. Instead, grant Regen (2s) to nearby allies (10 targets, 600 radius) when using a heal skill. I am still mourning the loss of AoE protection on heal. This would further the 10-target thing that is being introduced to Herald, and would solidify it as A++ for a WvW Herald like myself. Pretty please?
    -Core Value: Decent trait, but a wee bit lackluster. My suggestion: Additionally, reduce the cooldown of True Nature by 20%.
    -Rising Momentum: I personally find it fun, although I do miss the superspeed on stun-break.
    MASTER
    -Shared Empowerment: Overall an improvement, but Heralds aren't the best mightstackers. Won't slot. Not bad, but not appealing to me.
    -Shining Aspects: Tooltip doesn't show this applying to True Nature. Not that I would slot it anyway. Helpful for sustain for a power Herald I suppose. Probably the duddiest trait in my eyes. Suggestion further down.
    -Hardening Persistence: This is not bad considering it clears conditions per pulse on Shield 5. Not sure if this was cleansing conditions on nearby allies. I thought it said it was going to? If so, the tooltips do not reflect this.
    GRANDMASTER
    -Elevated Compassion: Meh....I mean it's not a bad trait, but I hate the ICD on it. You'd think this would be my go-to as a support Herald, but nope, at least not in WvW. Draconic Echo is so much more interesting. With this I get a rough equivalent to 2 stacks of regen for 5 allies (Regen + Facet of Nature, Ventari), with Draconic Echo I can apply any and all facets to 10 allies. My suggestion: Combine this with Shining Aspects into the master tier. Suddenly I would love this trait because it wouldn't compete with Draconic Echo, which it has a lot of natural synergy with.
    -Draconic Echo: Love this trait. Favorite of the traitline, hands down.
    -Forceful Persistence: No comment. Not relevant to my build.

    FACET OF NATURE
    Overall, upkeep costs seems too taxing. 2 would be much better.
    Shiro: Fitting. Didn't really play with this one much though. However, I tested this with my fiance and his siphoning was healing for less than mine, and I am in minstrel gear. Does this mean it is scaling off each player's stats? I suppose this is both a good and a bad thing.
    Mallyx: Oooh, I like this one! Seriously, I love running Mallyx/Shiro and I love to eat condis! Fun fun fun, especially with Draconic Echo. Hypothetically 10 conditions every 3 seconds with DE slotted.
    Ventari: Honestly...underwhelming. The healing is lackluster. Absolutely not worth using for 3 upkeep. I suggest increasing the modifier. Would have been nice if it was 1 condition removed for nearby allies per pulse, but perhaps that would have been too strong. Then again, Firebrand exists.
    Jalis: Admittedly I didn't play with it but it seems solid.
    Glint: Terrible. Sad. How does this even work? It doesn't increase boon duration on my character. The wording is weird. I didn't notice any difference with this on.

    TRUE NATURE
    Shiro: Solid.
    Mallyx: Solid
    Ventari: Solid but only with Core Value and Draconic Echo traited.
    Jalis: Solid. Great
    Glint: Terrible.

    Overall, I don't really know how to feel. Like I said in another post, I loooooooooove the direction they are taking Herald, like so much. I may seem bitter in this post but I really am just tired and matter-of-fact. I don't understand why some people are saying support Herald got huge buffs because really it was more of an exchange than anything. I am happy enough though. I love that the spec got attention. On a side note, I am really liking Demonic Resistance. I don't even have any condition power at all, but I still like the damage reduction it brings. I am trying to make a Corruption/Salvation/Herald Minstrel Mallyx/Ventari work...but I dunno if I can do without the stunbreak and other goodies from Invocation.

    It’s good feedback for the devs. I will say shiro in pvp is dead lol... other than that I think it’s very good all around dps is outstanding Ventari heals are great imho I mean every 3 seconds u putting out like 14k easily. And then some. Elevated compassion is meant for fractals it’s really good there with the passive in Ventari and the tablets passive plus adding boons on your teammates it’s huge healing hugeeeee.. 10 man targeting was strictly for wvw/raids and that’s it

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zilvereen.2091 said:
    They removed all protection boons from Herald tree, probably I wont be able to handkite Deimos without the 33% less dmg

    Oh please he barely does dmg.. you can literally outheal it and if it bugs u so much use the herald runes and spam Ventari s tablet on harrier stats

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    Wouldnt happen to have a build to share for you mallyx/glint build?

    Ill send it to you VIA mail in game

  • Kraljevo.2801Kraljevo.2801 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 29, 2018

    WvW perspective:

    I feel like elevated compassion is strictly worse than draconic echo, even if you go for a full support/heal build.

    Pulsing protection, swiftness and regen or fury and swiftness and protection to 10 targets seems a lot better than a bit more healing. Regen ticks for roughly 1000 health with Elder's Respite and minstrel gear/food. So 10000 health healed per second, which is pretty nice.

    In a small group of 5 elevated compassion is obviously better, but who plays in 5 man groups these days?

    Did anyone do the math to compare outgoing healing between draconic echo and elevation compassion in a Raid/WvW environment?

    Edit: Hmm, funny. So I tested the healing a bit with this build http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAW5OWmVG1AKoB7nre71NCZEA and it seems that elevated compassion + the regen outheal the tablet by quite a lot. Sure, it's not burst heals but very strong sustained healing for your subgroup.

    4.2k healing per person in your subgroup every 3 seconds, the other facets, rite of the dwarf, road, and stabi on f1.

    Seems like a pretty strong support to me. Ventari on the other hand just became more... meh. The passive f1 heal is also negligible, I hope they buff it a bit.

    Just dodge

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭

    combine f2 active consumption with draconic echos and u get longer nature uptime

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @OP what's your rotation on golem? Are you using the new glint skills?

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    My question then, for PvE and WvW game modes, is where do you use Glint? Eg. Solo play? Fractals / Metas? Roaming? Zerging?
    I can see how Shiro and Jalis are better, but what about channeling the dragon?

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    @OP what's your rotation on golem? Are you using the new glint skills?

    A qt guy got like 34k supposedly and for me personally I’ve gotten 33 the rotation is ez you use facet of nature and impossible odds and auto attack it’s the easier of the builds we play in rev and you use the third trait in herald grand master. Very very strong strongest power build rev ever had

  • @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    @OP what's your rotation on golem? Are you using the new glint skills?

    A qt guy got like 34k supposedly and for me personally I’ve gotten 33 the rotation is ez you use facet of nature and impossible odds and auto attack it’s the easier of the builds we play in rev and you use the third trait in herald grand master. Very very strong strongest power build rev ever had

    Do you have a link to a vid for the benchmark?

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chaos.7614 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    @OP what's your rotation on golem? Are you using the new glint skills?

    A qt guy got like 34k supposedly and for me personally I’ve gotten 33 the rotation is ez you use facet of nature and impossible odds and auto attack it’s the easier of the builds we play in rev and you use the third trait in herald grand master. Very very strong strongest power build rev ever had

    Do you have a link to a vid for the benchmark?

    This is what I heard from people who know qt members so I can’t help you

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    My question then, for PvE and WvW game modes, is where do you use Glint? Eg. Solo play? Fractals / Metas? Roaming? Zerging?
    I can see how Shiro and Jalis are better, but what about channeling the dragon?

    Yea I use shiro and Jamie in pve for dps, and then I use Ventari and glint for support/healing.

  • @aimz.6287 said:

    @Chaos.7614 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    @OP what's your rotation on golem? Are you using the new glint skills?

    A qt guy got like 34k supposedly and for me personally I’ve gotten 33 the rotation is ez you use facet of nature and impossible odds and auto attack it’s the easier of the builds we play in rev and you use the third trait in herald grand master. Very very strong strongest power build rev ever had

    Do you have a link to a vid for the benchmark?

    This is what I heard from people who know qt members so I can’t help you

    Ah, I see; are you testing on small with full berserker asc+realistic buffs+food/util+infusions? I assume the build is something like Devastation 2-3-1, Retribution 2-1-3, Herald 1-3-3?

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chaos.7614 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Chaos.7614 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    @OP what's your rotation on golem? Are you using the new glint skills?

    A qt guy got like 34k supposedly and for me personally I’ve gotten 33 the rotation is ez you use facet of nature and impossible odds and auto attack it’s the easier of the builds we play in rev and you use the third trait in herald grand master. Very very strong strongest power build rev ever had

    Do you have a link to a vid for the benchmark?

    This is what I heard from people who know qt members so I can’t help you

    Ah, I see; are you testing on small with full berserker asc+realistic buffs+food/util+infusions? I assume the build is something like Devastation 2-3-1, Retribution 2-1-3, Herald 1-3-3?

    Retribution kitten? Lol naaaaah. Use invo. And use 2-1-2. And ummm yea the rest is correct

  • Imho WvW vision

    Midlain jalis/glint malauder set zerk offset

    Full dmg-red for team f2 jalis elit glint

    Retri/devastation/heral

    Or shiro zerck full backline invocation/devastation/herald

  • aceofbass.2163aceofbass.2163 Member ✭✭✭

    Glint: Terrible. Sad. How does this even work? It doesn't increase boon duration on my character. The wording is weird. I didn't notice any difference with this on.

    Based on how they worded it, I think true nature(glint) works like sand squall; that it extends the duration of boons already on you/allies. And facet of nature flat out works like increase concentration. Havent tested for myself though.

  • @aimz.6287 said:

    @Chaos.7614 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Chaos.7614 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    @OP what's your rotation on golem? Are you using the new glint skills?

    A qt guy got like 34k supposedly and for me personally I’ve gotten 33 the rotation is ez you use facet of nature and impossible odds and auto attack it’s the easier of the builds we play in rev and you use the third trait in herald grand master. Very very strong strongest power build rev ever had

    Do you have a link to a vid for the benchmark?

    This is what I heard from people who know qt members so I can’t help you

    Ah, I see; are you testing on small with full berserker asc+realistic buffs+food/util+infusions? I assume the build is something like Devastation 2-3-1, Retribution 2-1-3, Herald 1-3-3?

    Retribution kitten? Lol naaaaah. Use invo. And use 2-1-2. And ummm yea the rest is correct

    Oops, I meant invocation; wasn't all that focused xd

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @aceofbass.2163 said:

    Glint: Terrible. Sad. How does this even work? It doesn't increase boon duration on my character. The wording is weird. I didn't notice any difference with this on.

    Based on how they worded it, I think true nature(glint) works like sand squall; that it extends the duration of boons already on you/allies. And facet of nature flat out works like increase concentration. Havent tested for myself though.

    Nah ur right if your night is 20 seconds long per tick, and your passive is 2 extra seconds for might all your night skills will be 22 seconds long instead, if you use core value it will bump it up to 3 seconds adding 3 seconds to every boon everyone puts out it’s actually really good.. to get 3 seconds is actually a lot of concentration

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chaos.7614 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Chaos.7614 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Chaos.7614 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    @OP what's your rotation on golem? Are you using the new glint skills?

    A qt guy got like 34k supposedly and for me personally I’ve gotten 33 the rotation is ez you use facet of nature and impossible odds and auto attack it’s the easier of the builds we play in rev and you use the third trait in herald grand master. Very very strong strongest power build rev ever had

    Do you have a link to a vid for the benchmark?

    This is what I heard from people who know qt members so I can’t help you

    Ah, I see; are you testing on small with full berserker asc+realistic buffs+food/util+infusions? I assume the build is something like Devastation 2-3-1, Retribution 2-1-3, Herald 1-3-3?

    Retribution kitten? Lol naaaaah. Use invo. And use 2-1-2. And ummm yea the rest is correct

    Oops, I meant invocation; wasn't all that focused xd

    No lol so what are ur numbers in the golem?

  • Rashagar.8349Rashagar.8349 Member ✭✭✭

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    I am trying to make a Corruption/Salvation/Herald Minstrel Mallyx/Ventari work...but I dunno if I can do without the stunbreak and other goodies from Invocation.

    Mallyx/Ventari is the combo I've wanted to make work for the longest time. Mostly from a thematic stand point. It's so hard to cram everything I want into it though.

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rashagar.8349 said:

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    I am trying to make a Corruption/Salvation/Herald Minstrel Mallyx/Ventari work...but I dunno if I can do without the stunbreak and other goodies from Invocation.

    Mallyx/Ventari is the combo I've wanted to make work for the longest time. Mostly from a thematic stand point. It's so hard to cram everything I want into it though.

    Is there a build for this ?

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 31, 2018

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Rashagar.8349 said:

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    I am trying to make a Corruption/Salvation/Herald Minstrel Mallyx/Ventari work...but I dunno if I can do without the stunbreak and other goodies from Invocation.

    Mallyx/Ventari is the combo I've wanted to make work for the longest time. Mostly from a thematic stand point. It's so hard to cram everything I want into it though.

    Is there a build for this ?

    Well in terms of stats Marshal can be a good bet.
    With rune of perplexity even the tablet movement would apply bling every 3 sec + confusion for 6sec every 15sec and would heal allies :\ so ventari would still "help with condi".
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNApXlnfNmNSuJzJRHlNlskyoS4S5UJorMsklTlKNAKgH4fEXxZcNGuhfA-jVh1ABAs/wf6DSU9HMVCOpyPA-w

    Its actually a mess :D done it out of the box, with more theory crafting cuold result on some decent support/condi pressure build

  • Wahlao.1069Wahlao.1069 Member ✭✭
    edited September 1, 2018

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Well in terms of stats Marshal can be a good bet.
    With rune of perplexity even the tablet movement would apply bling every 3 sec + confusion for 6sec every 15sec and would heal allies :\ so ventari would still "help with condi".
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNApXlnfNmNSuJzJRHlNlskyoS4S5UJorMsklTlKNAKgH4fEXxZcNGuhfA-jVh1ABAs/wf6DSU9HMVCOpyPA-w

    Its actually a mess :D done it out of the box, with more theory crafting cuold result on some decent support/condi pressure build

    Marshal gear doesn't have concentration though.
    I use a mix of shaman and plaguedoctor gear. Plaguedoctor only for the concentration. My Herald sits at 30K HP, and ~ 900 healing power with >60% boon duration
    My gear only has condi dmg, vitality, healing power & concentration.
    Essentially I'm a condi-healing hybrid.
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlEQJApnnnN2gSyJvQRNlbosoyPU4U5IKIs8ElFNFyegJshtLIANYNJTpKA-jRyGQBXUJIZVWhG9AKUpytOBAiV1FCpGh52fAAPAAA-e

  • Scar.1793Scar.1793 Member ✭✭✭

    Tbh I barely feel anything new, just tweaked traits with mandatory choices in each tier, skills are pretty much the same, and finally not a big fan of the new F2 which is extremely costly for what it does ( especially in Dragon Stance).

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Rashagar.8349 said:

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    I am trying to make a Corruption/Salvation/Herald Minstrel Mallyx/Ventari work...but I dunno if I can do without the stunbreak and other goodies from Invocation.

    Mallyx/Ventari is the combo I've wanted to make work for the longest time. Mostly from a thematic stand point. It's so hard to cram everything I want into it though.

    Is there a build for this ?

    I run Ventari/Mallyx with Minstrel's in WvW. Sometimes I'll switch out Mallyx but like Rashagar, it is thematically the most enjoyable legend combo for me so I usually only swap it out of combat for Glint swiftness. It is no Firebrand, but it is fun to run. Positioning is extremely important. I use Minstrel's because support is my primary purpose. I don't take Mallyx for damage, but for the boonstrip and the resistance/condi absorption. Also the Mallyx Facet of Nature is my favorite. Admittedly I feel like my build got nerfed pretty harshly, as the traits I used in Herald are now all gone: superspeed on stunbreak from Swift Gale (extremely helpful paired with Pain Absorption), protection on heal from Bolstered Fortifications, and extra stab stacks from Enhanced Bulwark. Also, less boon duration. I don't feel like I can perform as well as before, but I still like the spec. For traits I always run Salvation and usually Herald. I alternate between Corruption, Retribution, and Invocation for the third legend, but I tend to like Invocation the best. I am questioning if it is even worth it to run Herald, which is sad considering the scope of the balance patch.

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aimz.6287 said:
    Pros-
    1.The dps in pve is absolutely amazing. Impossible odds with the new master trait That gives 13% dmg, and then on top of that the other trait that gives 1% per boon... all I can say is thank you anet. I was hitting 32k on the golem with realistic buffs and on top of that I was getting 25-28k in raids. Such an awesome feeling.

    This actually worked out to be somewhat of a wash in end-game PvE...

    Prior to patch you got (28-30% modifiers):

    • 7% Forceful Persistance
    • 16-18% Elder's Focus
    • 5% Dmg from Protection Uptime trait (whatever that sort lived thing was called)

    Post patch you get (28-29% modifiers):

    • 13% Forceful Persistance (+4% for Natural Resonance if you do that, although the additional upkeep is actually a dps loss.)
    • 8-9% Elder's Focus
    • 7% Rising Tide

    The biggest bonus of it being that your modifiers are less reliant on your chaos chrono's boon spam uptime, since 20% of it rests outside of Elder's Focus/Protection uptime now... So you'll see a bigger increase in inexperienced groups, or with chrono's who refuse to play chaos--but then again, they also fixed the UI targeting bug, so you are no longer able to do the Inspiring Reinforcements multi-hit bug, which will be a dps loss (unless you weren't taking advantage of that before.)

    All in all, I'd say the changes leave Herald doing extremely similar numbers in raids, slightly higher ones in fractals, and very noticeably higher numbers when solo.

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    Pros-
    1.The dps in pve is absolutely amazing. Impossible odds with the new master trait That gives 13% dmg, and then on top of that the other trait that gives 1% per boon... all I can say is thank you anet. I was hitting 32k on the golem with realistic buffs and on top of that I was getting 25-28k in raids. Such an awesome feeling.

    This actually worked out to be somewhat of a wash in end-game PvE...

    Prior to patch you got (28-30% modifiers):

    • 7% Forceful Persistance
    • 16-18% Elder's Focus
    • 5% Dmg from Protection Uptime trait (whatever that sort lived thing was called)

    Post patch you get (28-29% modifiers):

    • 13% Forceful Persistance (+4% for Natural Resonance if you do that, although the additional upkeep is actually a dps loss.)
    • 8-9% Elder's Focus
    • 7% Rising Tide

    The biggest bonus of it being that your modifiers are less reliant on your chaos chrono's boon spam uptime, since 20% of it rests outside of Elder's Focus/Protection uptime now... So you'll see a bigger increase in inexperienced groups, or with chrono's who refuse to play chaos--but then again, they also fixed the UI targeting bug, so you are no longer able to do the Inspiring Reinforcements multi-hit bug, which will be a dps loss (unless you weren't taking advantage of that before.)

    All in all, I'd say the changes leave Herald doing extremely similar numbers in raids, slightly higher ones in fractals, and very noticeably higher numbers when solo.

    It’s not a dps lose... also it’s not 28-29? Post patch.. it’s at least 30.. it’s more than pre herald.

    13+4(it’s not a dps lose in the long run)+7+9=33
    The reason to keep facet of nature upkeeped is because it does more dmg PER hit.. keeping impossible odds up longer doesn’t make it better for your dps because you need to swap legends. Constantly. Plus not only do you keep facet of nature up for +4% but because you want to support your team with the passive your legend gives. Not using your facet of nature to keep impossible odds up longer is ridiculous. Like I said reasons
    1.you constantly swap legends (use invo for 25 extra energy...)
    2. Support your team

    If you don’t keep facet of nature up in raids your not worth bringing in raids.

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Rashagar.8349 said:

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    I am trying to make a Corruption/Salvation/Herald Minstrel Mallyx/Ventari work...but I dunno if I can do without the stunbreak and other goodies from Invocation.

    Mallyx/Ventari is the combo I've wanted to make work for the longest time. Mostly from a thematic stand point. It's so hard to cram everything I want into it though.

    Is there a build for this ?

    I run Ventari/Mallyx with Minstrel's in WvW. Sometimes I'll switch out Mallyx but like Rashagar, it is thematically the most enjoyable legend combo for me so I usually only swap it out of combat for Glint swiftness. It is no Firebrand, but it is fun to run. Positioning is extremely important. I use Minstrel's because support is my primary purpose. I don't take Mallyx for damage, but for the boonstrip and the resistance/condi absorption. Also the Mallyx Facet of Nature is my favorite. Admittedly I feel like my build got nerfed pretty harshly, as the traits I used in Herald are now all gone: superspeed on stunbreak from Swift Gale (extremely helpful paired with Pain Absorption), protection on heal from Bolstered Fortifications, and extra stab stacks from Enhanced Bulwark. Also, less boon duration. I don't feel like I can perform as well as before, but I still like the spec. For traits I always run Salvation and usually Herald. I alternate between Corruption, Retribution, and Invocation for the third legend, but I tend to like Invocation the best. I am questioning if it is even worth it to run Herald, which is sad considering the scope of the balance patch.

    Very cool ty man

  • LucianTheAngelic.7054LucianTheAngelic.7054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2018

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    Pros-
    1.The dps in pve is absolutely amazing. Impossible odds with the new master trait That gives 13% dmg, and then on top of that the other trait that gives 1% per boon... all I can say is thank you anet. I was hitting 32k on the golem with realistic buffs and on top of that I was getting 25-28k in raids. Such an awesome feeling.

    This actually worked out to be somewhat of a wash in end-game PvE...

    Prior to patch you got (28-30% modifiers):

    • 7% Forceful Persistance
    • 16-18% Elder's Focus
    • 5% Dmg from Protection Uptime trait (whatever that sort lived thing was called)

    Post patch you get (28-29% modifiers):

    • 13% Forceful Persistance (+4% for Natural Resonance if you do that, although the additional upkeep is actually a dps loss.)
    • 8-9% Elder's Focus
    • 7% Rising Tide

    The biggest bonus of it being that your modifiers are less reliant on your chaos chrono's boon spam uptime, since 20% of it rests outside of Elder's Focus/Protection uptime now... So you'll see a bigger increase in inexperienced groups, or with chrono's who refuse to play chaos--but then again, they also fixed the UI targeting bug, so you are no longer able to do the Inspiring Reinforcements multi-hit bug, which will be a dps loss (unless you weren't taking advantage of that before.)

    All in all, I'd say the changes leave Herald doing extremely similar numbers in raids, slightly higher ones in fractals, and very noticeably higher numbers when solo.

    It’s not a dps lose... also it’s not 28-29? Post patch.. it’s at least 30.. it’s more than pre herald.

    13+4(it’s not a dps lose in the long run)+7+9=33
    The reason to keep facet of nature upkeeped is because it does more dmg PER hit.. keeping impossible odds up longer doesn’t make it better for your dps because you need to swap legends. Constantly. Plus not only do you keep facet of nature up for +4% but because you want to support your team with the passive your legend gives. Not using your facet of nature to keep impossible odds up longer is ridiculous. Like I said reasons
    1.you constantly swap legends (use invo for 25 extra energy...)
    2. Support your team

    If you don’t keep facet of nature up in raids your not worth bringing in raids.

    If you’re focused on personal dps then Facet of Nature, even with the 4% bonus, is worse than just keeping up impossible odds. The flat damage from IO is better than the +4% modifier

    Using invo for an extra 25 energy is a damage loss for power builds. Additionally FoN’s effects just aren’t strong enough to justify using at the expense of personal dps in raids if your healer/chrono is competent

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aimz.6287 said:
    If you don’t keep facet of nature up in raids your not worth bringing in raids.

    Sometimes extra healing is actually bad for a raid group since you deprive your druid of CA generation... I mean, obviously that's not the case here, cuz Facet of Nature's healing contribution is almost unnoticeable, but jussayin...

    Also, if you're playing dps, your job is to dps... Nuff said. If you have access to group healing and support, great, use it in an emergency, use it when someone goes down, use it to save a wipe, that's all good. But you shouldn't be going into a raid wasting your energy on skills that don't actually contribute anything to the group except lowering your dps. An example I see a lot in bad pug groups is you'll have a renegade who's all "gun-ho on helping out with alacrity uptime!," and willingly drops his dps to spam alacrity despite there already being 2 chronos there... It's awesome if a chrono dies to mechanics or something to be able to do that, but if not, you're more just hurting the group.

    I mean, maybe you're in a group that needs the tiny bit of healing from shiro and the 10% dmg reduction the other half of the time... Then cool, go for it. But, in most groups those two things are 100% unwanted, so it's generally better to just do as much dps as you can.

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    If you don’t keep facet of nature up in raids your not worth bringing in raids.

    Sometimes extra healing is actually bad for a raid group since you deprive your druid of CA generation... I mean, obviously that's not the case here, cuz Facet of Nature's healing contribution is almost unnoticeable, but jussayin...

    Also, if you're playing dps, your job is to dps... Nuff said. If you have access to group healing and support, great, use it in an emergency, use it when someone goes down, use it to save a wipe, that's all good. But you shouldn't be going into a raid wasting your energy on skills that don't actually contribute anything to the group except lowering your dps. An example I see a lot in bad pug groups is you'll have a renegade who's all "gun-ho on helping out with alacrity uptime!," and willingly drops his dps to spam alacrity despite there already being 2 chronos there... It's awesome if a chrono dies to mechanics or something to be able to do that, but if not, you're more just hurting the group.

    I mean, maybe you're in a group that needs the tiny bit of healing from shiro and the 10% dmg reduction the other half of the time... Then cool, go for it. But, in most groups those two things are 100% unwanted, so it's generally better to just do as much dps as you can.

    Dude what are you talking about lol.. You don’t use Face of nature assassin for healing you use it for dmg for the leeching and the 4% you barely get healing from it if you healers are good..

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    If you don’t keep facet of nature up in raids your not worth bringing in raids.

    Sometimes extra healing is actually bad for a raid group since you deprive your druid of CA generation... I mean, obviously that's not the case here, cuz Facet of Nature's healing contribution is almost unnoticeable, but jussayin...

    Also, if you're playing dps, your job is to dps... Nuff said. If you have access to group healing and support, great, use it in an emergency, use it when someone goes down, use it to save a wipe, that's all good. But you shouldn't be going into a raid wasting your energy on skills that don't actually contribute anything to the group except lowering your dps. An example I see a lot in bad pug groups is you'll have a renegade who's all "gun-ho on helping out with alacrity uptime!," and willingly drops his dps to spam alacrity despite there already being 2 chronos there... It's awesome if a chrono dies to mechanics or something to be able to do that, but if not, you're more just hurting the group.

    I mean, maybe you're in a group that needs the tiny bit of healing from shiro and the 10% dmg reduction the other half of the time... Then cool, go for it. But, in most groups those two things are 100% unwanted, so it's generally better to just do as much dps as you can.

    Dude what are you talking about lol.. You don’t use Face of nature assassin for healing you use it for dmg for the leeching and the 4% you barely get healing from it if you healers are good..

    But using it is a dps loss vs not using it...

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    Pros-
    1.The dps in pve is absolutely amazing. Impossible odds with the new master trait That gives 13% dmg, and then on top of that the other trait that gives 1% per boon... all I can say is thank you anet. I was hitting 32k on the golem with realistic buffs and on top of that I was getting 25-28k in raids. Such an awesome feeling.

    This actually worked out to be somewhat of a wash in end-game PvE...

    Prior to patch you got (28-30% modifiers):

    • 7% Forceful Persistance
    • 16-18% Elder's Focus
    • 5% Dmg from Protection Uptime trait (whatever that sort lived thing was called)

    Post patch you get (28-29% modifiers):

    • 13% Forceful Persistance (+4% for Natural Resonance if you do that, although the additional upkeep is actually a dps loss.)
    • 8-9% Elder's Focus
    • 7% Rising Tide

    The biggest bonus of it being that your modifiers are less reliant on your chaos chrono's boon spam uptime, since 20% of it rests outside of Elder's Focus/Protection uptime now... So you'll see a bigger increase in inexperienced groups, or with chrono's who refuse to play chaos--but then again, they also fixed the UI targeting bug, so you are no longer able to do the Inspiring Reinforcements multi-hit bug, which will be a dps loss (unless you weren't taking advantage of that before.)

    All in all, I'd say the changes leave Herald doing extremely similar numbers in raids, slightly higher ones in fractals, and very noticeably higher numbers when solo.

    It’s not a dps lose... also it’s not 28-29? Post patch.. it’s at least 30.. it’s more than pre herald.

    13+4(it’s not a dps lose in the long run)+7+9=33
    The reason to keep facet of nature upkeeped is because it does more dmg PER hit.. keeping impossible odds up longer doesn’t make it better for your dps because you need to swap legends. Constantly. Plus not only do you keep facet of nature up for +4% but because you want to support your team with the passive your legend gives. Not using your facet of nature to keep impossible odds up longer is ridiculous. Like I said reasons
    1.you constantly swap legends (use invo for 25 extra energy...)
    2. Support your team

    If you don’t keep facet of nature up in raids your not worth bringing in raids.

    If you’re focused on personal dps then Facet of Nature, even with the 4% bonus, is worse than just keeping up impossible odds. The flat damage from IO is better than the +4% modifier

    Using invo for an extra 25 energy is a damage loss for power builds. Additionally FoN’s effects just aren’t strong enough to justify using at the expense of personal dps in raids if your healer/chrono is competent

    The 4% modifier is in the flat dmg of IO..automatically makes it better

    If every hit you use including IOS hits you are doing more dmg over time... because you are constantly doing dps. Your not burst dmging like a engi. You’re constantly throwing the same numbers because all the rotation is, is auto attacking..

    Let’s say for example.. the 4% brings 200-800 dmg per hit extra to your attacks.. You land about probably 5 hits in each second. Two auto attacks impossible odds twice and the leeching. Soooo add for example we will go with 400 dmg (to be fair) to each hit 400x4 1600 more dmg each second you fighting a boss for 5-8 mins long... keeping impossible odds up longer and taking an L for not using facet of nature for you and your team plus the 4% from it is stupid beyond belief..

    Btw these aren’t real numbers it’s just an example. I’m sure it’s even higher ALSO

    You are also basically saying 4% does nothing and is a waste when in fact it’s not. Because you can have IOS up longer, yeah but you want a stronger continuous burst not just a strong IOS 15 second run and then swap to jalis??? That’s dumb.
    Also Imagine ranger not bringing the spirits to the party..everyone geeks out over the 5% Druid brings because trust me everyone says Druid>all healers/supports because Druid bring a good spirit game.. sooo why pick Druid over better healers ? Oh right because the 5%... is it worth bringing the Druid for 5% when it’s healing is actually the worst in the game compared to other healers that can do it better than Druid and keep 25 night according to everyone it is... so bringing 4% dmg for the whole fight jalis/IOS/teamsupport.... yes... yes it’s way better

  • @aimz.6287 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    Pros-
    1.The dps in pve is absolutely amazing. Impossible odds with the new master trait That gives 13% dmg, and then on top of that the other trait that gives 1% per boon... all I can say is thank you anet. I was hitting 32k on the golem with realistic buffs and on top of that I was getting 25-28k in raids. Such an awesome feeling.

    This actually worked out to be somewhat of a wash in end-game PvE...

    Prior to patch you got (28-30% modifiers):

    • 7% Forceful Persistance
    • 16-18% Elder's Focus
    • 5% Dmg from Protection Uptime trait (whatever that sort lived thing was called)

    Post patch you get (28-29% modifiers):

    • 13% Forceful Persistance (+4% for Natural Resonance if you do that, although the additional upkeep is actually a dps loss.)
    • 8-9% Elder's Focus
    • 7% Rising Tide

    The biggest bonus of it being that your modifiers are less reliant on your chaos chrono's boon spam uptime, since 20% of it rests outside of Elder's Focus/Protection uptime now... So you'll see a bigger increase in inexperienced groups, or with chrono's who refuse to play chaos--but then again, they also fixed the UI targeting bug, so you are no longer able to do the Inspiring Reinforcements multi-hit bug, which will be a dps loss (unless you weren't taking advantage of that before.)

    All in all, I'd say the changes leave Herald doing extremely similar numbers in raids, slightly higher ones in fractals, and very noticeably higher numbers when solo.

    It’s not a dps lose... also it’s not 28-29? Post patch.. it’s at least 30.. it’s more than pre herald.

    13+4(it’s not a dps lose in the long run)+7+9=33
    The reason to keep facet of nature upkeeped is because it does more dmg PER hit.. keeping impossible odds up longer doesn’t make it better for your dps because you need to swap legends. Constantly. Plus not only do you keep facet of nature up for +4% but because you want to support your team with the passive your legend gives. Not using your facet of nature to keep impossible odds up longer is ridiculous. Like I said reasons
    1.you constantly swap legends (use invo for 25 extra energy...)
    2. Support your team

    If you don’t keep facet of nature up in raids your not worth bringing in raids.

    If you’re focused on personal dps then Facet of Nature, even with the 4% bonus, is worse than just keeping up impossible odds. The flat damage from IO is better than the +4% modifier

    Using invo for an extra 25 energy is a damage loss for power builds. Additionally FoN’s effects just aren’t strong enough to justify using at the expense of personal dps in raids if your healer/chrono is competent

    The 4% modifier is in the flat dmg of IO..automatically makes it better

    If every hit you use including IOS hits you are doing more dmg over time... because you are constantly doing dps. Your not burst dmging like a engi. You’re constantly throwing the same numbers because all the rotation is, is auto attacking..

    Let’s say for example.. the 4% brings 200-800 dmg per hit extra to your attacks.. You land about probably 5 hits in each second. Two auto attacks impossible odds twice and the leeching. Soooo add for example we will go with 400 dmg (to be fair) to each hit 400x4 1600 more dmg each second you fighting a boss for 5-8 mins long... keeping impossible odds up longer and taking an L for not using facet of nature for you and your team plus the 4% from it is stupid beyond belief..

    Btw these aren’t real numbers it’s just an example. I’m sure it’s even higher ALSO

    You are also basically saying 4% does nothing and is a waste when in fact it’s not. Because you can have IOS up longer, yeah but you want a stronger continuous burst not just a strong IOS 15 second run and then swap to jalis??? That’s dumb.
    Also Imagine ranger not bringing the spirits to the party..everyone geeks out over the 5% Druid brings because trust me everyone says Druid>all healers/supports because Druid bring a good spirit game.. sooo why pick Druid over better healers ? Oh right because the 5%... is it worth bringing the Druid for 5% when it’s healing is actually the worst in the game compared to other healers that can do it better than Druid and keep 25 night according to everyone it is... so bringing 4% dmg for the whole fight jalis/IOS/teamsupport.... yes... yes it’s way better

    Your understanding of the math is a bit flawed, though not entirely wrong. The 4% + IO + lifesteal IS obviously higher than IO without the 4% while you’re able to channel it, but because it runs out so much faster a longer channel of IO is consistently higher dps overall. FoN is a 2kish dps loss that isn’t really made up for with the lifesteal or damage modifier

    These are the max damage rotations for power herald now:
    h ttps://youtu.be/LI2fqVw3QHc

    h ttps://youtu.be/cLMPKKMKass

    There isn’t a way to fit in FoN into any rotation and get these numbers :(

    Also Druid brings more than 5% dps increase across the entire squad because it hits 10 targets with frost and sun spirit and also hits 5 targets with spotter

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    Pros-
    1.The dps in pve is absolutely amazing. Impossible odds with the new master trait That gives 13% dmg, and then on top of that the other trait that gives 1% per boon... all I can say is thank you anet. I was hitting 32k on the golem with realistic buffs and on top of that I was getting 25-28k in raids. Such an awesome feeling.

    This actually worked out to be somewhat of a wash in end-game PvE...

    Prior to patch you got (28-30% modifiers):

    • 7% Forceful Persistance
    • 16-18% Elder's Focus
    • 5% Dmg from Protection Uptime trait (whatever that sort lived thing was called)

    Post patch you get (28-29% modifiers):

    • 13% Forceful Persistance (+4% for Natural Resonance if you do that, although the additional upkeep is actually a dps loss.)
    • 8-9% Elder's Focus
    • 7% Rising Tide

    The biggest bonus of it being that your modifiers are less reliant on your chaos chrono's boon spam uptime, since 20% of it rests outside of Elder's Focus/Protection uptime now... So you'll see a bigger increase in inexperienced groups, or with chrono's who refuse to play chaos--but then again, they also fixed the UI targeting bug, so you are no longer able to do the Inspiring Reinforcements multi-hit bug, which will be a dps loss (unless you weren't taking advantage of that before.)

    All in all, I'd say the changes leave Herald doing extremely similar numbers in raids, slightly higher ones in fractals, and very noticeably higher numbers when solo.

    It’s not a dps lose... also it’s not 28-29? Post patch.. it’s at least 30.. it’s more than pre herald.

    13+4(it’s not a dps lose in the long run)+7+9=33
    The reason to keep facet of nature upkeeped is because it does more dmg PER hit.. keeping impossible odds up longer doesn’t make it better for your dps because you need to swap legends. Constantly. Plus not only do you keep facet of nature up for +4% but because you want to support your team with the passive your legend gives. Not using your facet of nature to keep impossible odds up longer is ridiculous. Like I said reasons
    1.you constantly swap legends (use invo for 25 extra energy...)
    2. Support your team

    If you don’t keep facet of nature up in raids your not worth bringing in raids.

    If you’re focused on personal dps then Facet of Nature, even with the 4% bonus, is worse than just keeping up impossible odds. The flat damage from IO is better than the +4% modifier

    Using invo for an extra 25 energy is a damage loss for power builds. Additionally FoN’s effects just aren’t strong enough to justify using at the expense of personal dps in raids if your healer/chrono is competent

    The 4% modifier is in the flat dmg of IO..automatically makes it better

    If every hit you use including IOS hits you are doing more dmg over time... because you are constantly doing dps. Your not burst dmging like a engi. You’re constantly throwing the same numbers because all the rotation is, is auto attacking..

    Let’s say for example.. the 4% brings 200-800 dmg per hit extra to your attacks.. You land about probably 5 hits in each second. Two auto attacks impossible odds twice and the leeching. Soooo add for example we will go with 400 dmg (to be fair) to each hit 400x4 1600 more dmg each second you fighting a boss for 5-8 mins long... keeping impossible odds up longer and taking an L for not using facet of nature for you and your team plus the 4% from it is stupid beyond belief..

    Btw these aren’t real numbers it’s just an example. I’m sure it’s even higher ALSO

    You are also basically saying 4% does nothing and is a waste when in fact it’s not. Because you can have IOS up longer, yeah but you want a stronger continuous burst not just a strong IOS 15 second run and then swap to jalis??? That’s dumb.
    Also Imagine ranger not bringing the spirits to the party..everyone geeks out over the 5% Druid brings because trust me everyone says Druid>all healers/supports because Druid bring a good spirit game.. sooo why pick Druid over better healers ? Oh right because the 5%... is it worth bringing the Druid for 5% when it’s healing is actually the worst in the game compared to other healers that can do it better than Druid and keep 25 night according to everyone it is... so bringing 4% dmg for the whole fight jalis/IOS/teamsupport.... yes... yes it’s way better

    Your understanding of the math is a bit flawed, though not entirely wrong. The 4% + IO + lifesteal IS obviously higher than IO without the 4% while you’re able to channel it, but because it runs out so much faster a longer channel of IO is consistently higher dps overall. FoN is a 2kish dps loss that isn’t really made up for with the lifesteal or damage modifier

    These are the max damage rotations for power herald now:
    h ttps://youtu.be/LI2fqVw3QHc

    h ttps://youtu.be/cLMPKKMKass

    There isn’t a way to fit in FoN into any rotation and get these numbers :(

    Also Druid brings more than 5% dps increase across the entire squad because it hits 10 targets with frost and sun spirit and also hits 5 targets with spotter

    But what im saying is and what I don't think you understand is... The added +4% dmg overall at the ned of the day will either equal or add more dps to the overall dps in the end of the day done. That's what im saying

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    Pros-
    1.The dps in pve is absolutely amazing. Impossible odds with the new master trait That gives 13% dmg, and then on top of that the other trait that gives 1% per boon... all I can say is thank you anet. I was hitting 32k on the golem with realistic buffs and on top of that I was getting 25-28k in raids. Such an awesome feeling.

    This actually worked out to be somewhat of a wash in end-game PvE...

    Prior to patch you got (28-30% modifiers):

    • 7% Forceful Persistance
    • 16-18% Elder's Focus
    • 5% Dmg from Protection Uptime trait (whatever that sort lived thing was called)

    Post patch you get (28-29% modifiers):

    • 13% Forceful Persistance (+4% for Natural Resonance if you do that, although the additional upkeep is actually a dps loss.)
    • 8-9% Elder's Focus
    • 7% Rising Tide

    The biggest bonus of it being that your modifiers are less reliant on your chaos chrono's boon spam uptime, since 20% of it rests outside of Elder's Focus/Protection uptime now... So you'll see a bigger increase in inexperienced groups, or with chrono's who refuse to play chaos--but then again, they also fixed the UI targeting bug, so you are no longer able to do the Inspiring Reinforcements multi-hit bug, which will be a dps loss (unless you weren't taking advantage of that before.)

    All in all, I'd say the changes leave Herald doing extremely similar numbers in raids, slightly higher ones in fractals, and very noticeably higher numbers when solo.

    It’s not a dps lose... also it’s not 28-29? Post patch.. it’s at least 30.. it’s more than pre herald.

    13+4(it’s not a dps lose in the long run)+7+9=33
    The reason to keep facet of nature upkeeped is because it does more dmg PER hit.. keeping impossible odds up longer doesn’t make it better for your dps because you need to swap legends. Constantly. Plus not only do you keep facet of nature up for +4% but because you want to support your team with the passive your legend gives. Not using your facet of nature to keep impossible odds up longer is ridiculous. Like I said reasons
    1.you constantly swap legends (use invo for 25 extra energy...)
    2. Support your team

    If you don’t keep facet of nature up in raids your not worth bringing in raids.

    If you’re focused on personal dps then Facet of Nature, even with the 4% bonus, is worse than just keeping up impossible odds. The flat damage from IO is better than the +4% modifier

    Using invo for an extra 25 energy is a damage loss for power builds. Additionally FoN’s effects just aren’t strong enough to justify using at the expense of personal dps in raids if your healer/chrono is competent

    The 4% modifier is in the flat dmg of IO..automatically makes it better

    If every hit you use including IOS hits you are doing more dmg over time... because you are constantly doing dps. Your not burst dmging like a engi. You’re constantly throwing the same numbers because all the rotation is, is auto attacking..

    Let’s say for example.. the 4% brings 200-800 dmg per hit extra to your attacks.. You land about probably 5 hits in each second. Two auto attacks impossible odds twice and the leeching. Soooo add for example we will go with 400 dmg (to be fair) to each hit 400x4 1600 more dmg each second you fighting a boss for 5-8 mins long... keeping impossible odds up longer and taking an L for not using facet of nature for you and your team plus the 4% from it is stupid beyond belief..

    Btw these aren’t real numbers it’s just an example. I’m sure it’s even higher ALSO

    You are also basically saying 4% does nothing and is a waste when in fact it’s not. Because you can have IOS up longer, yeah but you want a stronger continuous burst not just a strong IOS 15 second run and then swap to jalis??? That’s dumb.
    Also Imagine ranger not bringing the spirits to the party..everyone geeks out over the 5% Druid brings because trust me everyone says Druid>all healers/supports because Druid bring a good spirit game.. sooo why pick Druid over better healers ? Oh right because the 5%... is it worth bringing the Druid for 5% when it’s healing is actually the worst in the game compared to other healers that can do it better than Druid and keep 25 night according to everyone it is... so bringing 4% dmg for the whole fight jalis/IOS/teamsupport.... yes... yes it’s way better

    Your understanding of the math is a bit flawed, though not entirely wrong. The 4% + IO + lifesteal IS obviously higher than IO without the 4% while you’re able to channel it, but because it runs out so much faster a longer channel of IO is consistently higher dps overall. FoN is a 2kish dps loss that isn’t really made up for with the lifesteal or damage modifier

    These are the max damage rotations for power herald now:
    h ttps://youtu.be/LI2fqVw3QHc

    h ttps://youtu.be/cLMPKKMKass

    There isn’t a way to fit in FoN into any rotation and get these numbers :(

    Also Druid brings more than 5% dps increase across the entire squad because it hits 10 targets with frost and sun spirit and also hits 5 targets with spotter

    But what im saying is and what I don't think you understand is... The added +4% dmg overall at the ned of the day will either equal or add more dps to the overall dps in the end of the day done. That's what im saying

    Proove it, because currently there is no actual evidence to supporting your claim and everyone who has actually published benchmarks so far has written off FoN as not worth the cost.

  • lombomon.7268lombomon.7268 Member ✭✭
    edited September 3, 2018

    Pros:

    • Elevated Compassion & Elder's Respite: These new traits allow Glint to heal allies a bit better than before, making it so you don't lose all healing capability upon swapping out of Ventari.
    • Hardening Persistence: The condi cleanse on shield is nice and the decreased damage instead of toughness is more clear/effective.
    • The grandmaster line now has competition instead of choosing Elder's Force every time.
    • Shining Aspects, Draconic Echo, and True Nature: traits that interact with Glint's Facets, huzzah for Herald's traits finally synergizing with Glint!
    • Draconic Fortitude: Some people don't like that this trait is boring, which is valid since it's just a health increase. However, I think it suits Herald's defensive theme better than the endurance from the old trait.
    • Facet of Nature: The new unique effects for each legend make the mechanic more useful when not in Glint's stance or if you are not taking Glint at all.

    Cons:

    • Shield skills were not touched outside of the Hardening Persistence change. They still feel pretty bad.
    • Reinforced Potency: The added damage functionality of this meant that it would need to lose some concentration, I'm okay with that. However, halving it was too much. Look at Compounding Chemicals on Engineer for example. It has an additional effect with boons and still has a high concentration (+240) value. I think around +180 concentration is a better place for this trait, especially considering Facet of Nature's concentration effect was also reduced.
    • Facet of Nature: Increased upkeep feels bad, especially since Glint's boon duration bonus is lower than it was before. Either buff the effects or reduce the upkeep cost (or a little bit of both?).
    • Shining Aspects: 3 second cooldown on a not so great heal, doesn't seem like a very useful trait. Also it's the second defensive trait in the Master line and the damage mitigation and cleanse provided by Hardening Persistence will surely always be a better choice than this if you are looking for survivability.
    • No update to Shared Empowerment to make it more effective and/or interactive. Increasing the number of affected targets was nice though.

    Overall I think this update pushed the Herald line's mechanics to where they need to be, just some of the numbers need to be tweaked and shield needs some attention.

  • Artyport.2084Artyport.2084 Member ✭✭✭

    are there no ventari/jallix combos?
    I would think the healing and protection of the two classes would make that work well?

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2018

    @Wahlao.1069 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Well in terms of stats Marshal can be a good bet.
    With rune of perplexity even the tablet movement would apply bling every 3 sec + confusion for 6sec every 15sec and would heal allies :\ so ventari would still "help with condi".
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNApXlnfNmNSuJzJRHlNlskyoS4S5UJorMsklTlKNAKgH4fEXxZcNGuhfA-jVh1ABAs/wf6DSU9HMVCOpyPA-w

    Its actually a mess :D done it out of the box, with more theory crafting cuold result on some decent support/condi pressure build

    Marshal gear doesn't have concentration though.
    I use a mix of shaman and plaguedoctor gear. Plaguedoctor only for the concentration. My Herald sits at 30K HP, and ~ 900 healing power with >60% boon duration
    My gear only has condi dmg, vitality, healing power & concentration.
    Essentially I'm a condi-healing hybrid.
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlEQJApnnnN2gSyJvQRNlbosoyPU4U5IKIs8ElFNFyegJshtLIANYNJTpKA-jRyGQBXUJIZVWhG9AKUpytOBAiV1FCpGh52fAAPAAA-e

    Q: Why do u want that much boon duration and just 1k power?
    What boons are u trying to extend?

  • @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Q: Why do u want that much boon duration and just 1k power?
    What boons are u trying to extend?

    I had the impression you were commenting on gearing a mainly condi support build?
    My build has >1K condi dmg, almost 0 power.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2018

    My biggest problem with the changes is the loss of Protection from the Herald line, as this was the main thing that synergised Ventari with Herald. Don't get me wrong, some of the new traits are really good for Ventari, but no increase in HPS will ever compare with damage reduction.

    Protection uptime is alot of what makes GW2's poor idea of healers effective in PvE. I mean ,what is the point in all those % bonuses and healing for 10-15k when people just get downed in a single hit anyway ? ..There's nothing to heal there.

    I feel like these changes were made more for raids than for fractals or open-world, as now I either have to camp Glint or hope the group has another buffer, and at that point i might as well just drop healing and go DPS completely because it will get the job done just as well.

    I feel like we're slowly but surely returning to the Zerker meta, version 2.0.

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  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    My biggest problem with the changes is the loss of Protection from the Herald line, as this was the main thing that synergised Ventari with Herald. Don't get me wrong, some of the new traits are really good for Ventari, but no increase in HPS will ever compare with damage reduction.

    Protection uptime is alot of what makes GW2's poor idea of healers effective in PvE. I mean ,what is the point in all those % bonuses and healing for 10-15k when people just get downed in a single hit anyway ? ..There's nothing to heal there.

    I feel like these changes were made more for raids than for fractals or open-world, as now I either have to camp Glint or hope the group has another buffer, and at that point i might as well just drop healing and go DPS completely because it will get the job done just as well.

    I feel like we're slowly but surely returning to the Zerker meta, version 2.0.

    I agree. It seems like they really are trying to push Glint as the secondary legend for Ventari. My problem is beyond the boons, the consume skills are all geared more towards offensiveness. So literally all ANet seems to want us to do is just shi out boons for the entirety we are in Glint which is frankly boring as kitten. I wouldn't have as much of an issue with this if Shield was better (more reliable heal and the ability to captilize on traited Shield 5 without setting yourself up for death) and at least one of the consume skills had a supportive feature as well so that we could supplement the boon gen with some active skills.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2018

    @Wahlao.1069 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Q: Why do u want that much boon duration and just 1k power?
    What boons are u trying to extend?

    I had the impression you were commenting on gearing a mainly condi support build?
    My build has >1K condi dmg, almost 0 power.

    @Artyport.2084 said:
    are there no ventari/jallix combos?
    I would think the healing and protection of the two classes would make that work well?

    Yes and no, actually was tryng to challane myself with @Artyport.2084 comment towards ventary/deamon stance, and used a hybrid build, tried to used the new legend to connect both legends, i didnt used concentration stats cause ventari is direct heals mostly, and usually 2sec of resistance is aceptable in every utility cast, so i tough marshal would be a good bet overall.

    But for mass res stack... ofc it would have lots of boon duration but for that i would prefer to go with range hammer direct damage than actually use condi.

  • Artyport.2084Artyport.2084 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Wahlao.1069 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Q: Why do u want that much boon duration and just 1k power?
    What boons are u trying to extend?

    I had the impression you were commenting on gearing a mainly condi support build?
    My build has >1K condi dmg, almost 0 power.

    @Artyport.2084 said:
    are there no ventari/jallix combos?
    I would think the healing and protection of the two classes would make that work well?

    Yes and no, actually was tryng to challane myself with @Artyport.2084 comment towards ventary/deamon stance, and used a hybrid build, tried to used the new legend to connect both legends, i didnt used concentration stats cause ventari is direct heals mostly, and usually 2sec of resistance is aceptable in every utility cast, so i tough marshal would be a good bet overall.

    But for mass res stack... ofc it would have lots of boon duration but for that i would prefer to go with range hammer direct damage than actually use condi.

    oopsie i meant Ventari/Jalis ironhammer.

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    regarding protection gone from herald line i think they want ventari to be more healing focus than boon focus.
    also you can have dmg reduction in other ways like stability and 15% reduction, unkeep for 6-9 % dmg reduction, 20% dmg reduction with having resistance

    so take retribution line . while have stability 15% less dmg, unkeep with VH another 20% less and another 6% all together is like 36% less dmg

    if you take bunker build with herald and jalis you can have more protection and dmg reduction but less healing

    this is their concept

  • @lombomon.7268 said:

    • No update to Shared Empowerment to make it more effective and/or interactive. Increasing the number of affected targets was nice though.

    Pretty sure the bug it has where it gives you 5% damage while you have prot is an update, just not an intended one xD

    I may be harsh but i care deeply about the game.

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