[PvE] Please Anet: Rework the "gain toughness" skills/traits because of how touthness tanking works — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[PvE] Please Anet: Rework the "gain toughness" skills/traits because of how touthness tanking works

Zunki.3916Zunki.3916 Member ✭✭✭
edited September 28, 2018 in Elementalist

Toughness tanking works the way that the one with the most toughness (including buffs) gets aggro.

Elementalist (especially condi) has some unavoidable toughness buffs:

  • 320 from weave self in earth
  • 120 from weaver while being partially attuned in earth
  • 150 from being in earth with a proper condi dps spec
  • 250 if using scepter rock barrier (this isn't used often, but is actually viable for a ranged spec)

This sums up to a whooping 590 (without rock barrier)! This means your tank has to really go into toughness only because of you, so it won't happen.
I don't know if it is a design philosophy to bully condi ele out of raid scenarios and if this is really intended, but if not there is an easy fix to this:

Rework weave self, the increased toughness from earth trait and rock barrier into something like "xx% reduced damage taken". For flavor reasons you could keep the 120 toughness from the weaver spec, so it doesen't look wierd on the tooltip. The 320 from weave self would even look better with something like 20%, as all the other bonuses are %based too.

This has been done on the "Rune of mercy" already, as it gives 400 toughness on tooltip but in reality gives you 25% reduced damage taken, I think the reason was the same.

Even if you think condi ele or raids are kitten, maybe upvote this so we have more future options. This would also help agression generation in general 5man content sometimes, not only raids. Of course the numbers must be balanced to not ruin PvP and WvW expirience.

An alternative (even cleaner) way would be to rework all toughness aggro mechanics to only take base values in mind, like the stat conversion traits, so all those buffs simply wont matter. But that looks more bug risky to me.

Viable != Optimal

Not viable = You only get carried, 10 players with a build as "viable as yours" can't properly do it.

Comments

  • Zunki.3916Zunki.3916 Member ✭✭✭

    First step (Weave Self) is finally done, now the other ones please :)

    Viable != Optimal

    Not viable = You only get carried, 10 players with a build as "viable as yours" can't properly do it.

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zunki.3916 said:
    First step (Weave Self) is finally done, now the other ones please :)

    Haha, nice call

    ... Secret employee of Anet 😜

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 3, 2019

    Right now the only problem is the permanent Alacrity requirement so that the rotation and the damage aren't messed up since Weave Self is a huge damage gain.

    Either buff the condition damage on sword but that will make pWeaver weaker maybe because it will get nerfed because the DPS would probably be over 39k for pWeaver if that happened or increase the duration of Weave Self. The reliance on Alacrity is the main problem now because other classes do not rely on an active utility to gain more condi damage.

    1800 range Unstoppable Union Sic' Em 웃l) --> 10k --> 9k --> 11k --> 10k --> 10k PepeHands = PepeRIP

  • MoriMoriMori.5349MoriMoriMori.5349 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2019

    @Zunki.3916 said:
    This sums up to a whooping 590 (without rock barrier)! This means your tank has to really go into toughness only because of you, so it won't happen.
    I don't know if it is a design philosophy to bully condi ele out of raid scenarios and if this is really intended, but if not there is an easy fix to this:

    Sorry for offtopic, but is any condi build of ele or its e-specs even viable in raids? I mean, you hardly can reach even 20k dps with condi on ele, and the meta sustanined dps is, I believe, 25-30k dps. And as Weaver can't offer anything except damage, you probably will have hard time finding those willing to take you into a group anyway, no?

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2019

    Here's the condi weaver rotation. It verges to be the hardest rotation in the game because of fast attuning and many skills needed to be used and utilities to put in mind:

    SC: The downfall for this build is Weave Self due to the added Toughness. You need to communicate with your Support Chronomancers, if you are using it on a boss with a Toughness based aggro mechanic, to ensure that they are above 1590 Toughness. (This one is solved with today's patch).

    SC: The main problem with this build is the requirement of permanent Alacrity to be able to use the Weave Self rotation effectively. This is why, in some cases, you will need to delay your Weave Self to ensure you have boons. (This still exists, because 20% condi damage is quite a lot, also the faster attuning which means more condi application).

    Maybe ANet can buff up the condi on Earth Attunement so that pWeaver can't make use of it and not have higher damage, while making the reliance on weave self not as much as now.

    1800 range Unstoppable Union Sic' Em 웃l) --> 10k --> 9k --> 11k --> 10k --> 10k PepeHands = PepeRIP

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