Power Reaper (you know we need a new thread)

What is dead may never die!!

I say buff GS skills in damage and speed to thieves staff level for starters.

Definitely the speed of the skills. I know the whole 'dark horror impending doom' slowness concept but it just makes it a drag to play, especially when it has pathetic power behind it compared to other GS classes... come on, even Rangers hit harder. No excuse for Reaper GS skills to be so slow...

I would say it only needs three things, two of which are small.

1. Damage modifiers, probably on Cold Shoulder.
2. "Nothing Can Save You!" becoming instant cast.
3. Good Stability access outside of Shroud.

The third is the most difficult to implement because of the question "where does it go?" Maybe Soul Eater?

Slow attacks can work provided most of the ways of negating slow attacks can be easily countered. Making it so you can pop NCSY in the middle of your attack will immedietly mean several professions go from laughing at Power Reaper to being genuinely scared of it.

Still, Greatsword does need to hit significantly harder for how slow it is, and damage modifiers are something Necros in general need.

I don't personally have any issues with Power Reaper. If anything its biggest weakness is just the fact that it's greedy with its utility slots, more so then other builds. Either you take some extra condi cleanse, but you lack in other departments, you take extra damage, but you lack in condi cleanse and stunbreaks, or you take utility, but lack in damage or condi cleanse. This means while Condi builds and such are a bit more loose in how they can fill the utility slots and have a broader scope of answers, Power tends to always have some glaring weaknesses. Ultimately this just means you have to play further back as a Power Necro, but Reaper is melee-oriented, at which point you need to play a lot of the in-and-out game, or just take risks in how aggressive you choose to play.

@"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:I would say it only needs three things, two of which are small.

1. Damage modifiers, probably on Cold Shoulder.
2. "Nothing Can Save You!" becoming instant cast.
3. Good Stability access outside of Shroud.

The third is the most difficult to implement because of the question "where does it go?" Maybe Soul Eater?

Slow attacks can work provided most of the ways of negating slow attacks can be easily countered. Making it so you can pop NCSY in the middle of your attack will immedietly mean several professions go from laughing at Power Reaper to being genuinely scared of it.

Still, Greatsword does need to hit significantly harder for how slow it is, and damage modifiers are something Necros in general need.

Stability belongs to the base necro stuff, really. Either a rehauled deathmagic trait, or added to some kinda utility skill, anything spectral wise would fit. We get 2 sources of stability with reaper, one is always in shroud, the other one is free to choose, that basicly would be enough, IF base necro gets some as well.

NCSY i absolutely agree. Given the speed of the GS skills this is especially justified.

In PVE we need damage modifiers, yeah.

In WvW and PvP we need better sustain and defense, as well as the ability to hinder our enemies movement and movement skills. Resistance and Condi clears are getting more and more, same for superspeed and gapclosers. Im fine with the fact we dont get good mobility IF we can reliably hinder our enemies movement abilities and IF we can reliably prevent them from disengaging and running away.

This all is handicapped by the age-old Necro problem of "power budget".Quick overview for those that aren't aware of what that means: "Power Budget" in balance is the concept that you have a budget of X amount to spend on a skill. Lower cooldown? Costs budget. Higher Damage? Costs budget. Heals you (which is what shroud effectively does on necro)? Costs budget. Scourge gets to be much more powerful because it removes the "Healing" from all necro skills, so it can then push that envelop on damage or support or cooldowns (which is why shade skills all have really low CDs!).

So how do we give Reaper its own identity without hurting the power budget? You need to play with how shroud works. This is dangerous because it's such an integral part of the class that it can be tricky to do right. However, the question of how you do it depends on what type of identity you want for the class. The reaper was initially advertised as a "slow moving bruiser" class, until they entered shroud,

To keep that flavor, I would recommend the following buffs to the class to bring it a little closer in line, while differentiating shroud enough to make it feel different from normal DS (which should be the "tanky" shroud). Broadly, this will include a small "nerf" to RS to make it degen significantly faster than DS. This means that RS can have real damage added to it without throwing it out of whack, because you'll essentially charge a burst then unleash it.

• RS now drains 100% faster than previously. Increase all base damage modifiers in RS to compensate. RS AAs now apply vuln by default. Unyielding blast would push it to stack vuln fast. RS2 has a chill added to landing to help keep people in place RS4 has poison duration significantly reduced (in addition to power damage increased)** RS5 made unblockable

GM traits would need a slight rework as well to keep identity:

• Blighters Boon (defensive option) - Applies protection every 1s in addition to it's existing effect while in shroud
• Deathly Chill (utility option) - Gain 2s of frost aura on entering RS. Executing a leap finisher on any grants Frost Aura for 2s in addition to its other effects.
• Reapers Onslaught (offensive option) - Gain Might and Quickness for 5s when entering RS. Gain might when hitting a foe below 75%, and gain quickness when hitting a foe below 40%

Making RS drain faster frees up defensive power budget for use on more offense, because you can't use it effectively to "soak" hits. It's more of a burst tool. Similarly changing the 3 GMs to essentially provide shorter burstier benefits (as opposed to blighters, which is meant to capture SOME defense back) promotes this style of play.

Give us more Stab options! /o\

@Brujeria.7536 said:Stability belongs to the base necro stuff, really. Either a rehauled deathmagic trait, or added to some kinda utility skill, anything spectral wise would fit. We get 2 sources of stability with reaper, one is always in shroud, the other one is free to choose, that basicly would be enough, IF base necro gets some as well.

What about Spectral Wall? That would actually put it more in line with how similar skills (namely Temporal Curtain) work by putting opposite effects on allies and enemies.

It would also give the skill much more use. Death Magic needs one too. I suggest Reaper's Protection gets changed to "when you are disabled, gain Stability and Resistance" with no ICD. This would disrupt chain CC. Resistance is there primarily to counteract the trap this would put you in against Necro Scepter.

If we are going to be this slow, we should at least be amazing at shrugging off conditions. We have some decent options, but we need more.

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:Stability belongs to the base necro stuff, really. Either a rehauled deathmagic trait, or added to some kinda utility skill, anything spectral wise would fit. We get 2 sources of stability with reaper, one is always in shroud, the other one is free to choose, that basicly would be enough, IF base necro gets some as well.

I like your idea of getting stability and resistance when getting hit with disables. It has consistency with the type of character that the Reaper projects to be: slow but unstoppable, not someone staying on his ass half the time.

Should be noted that it wouldn't do anything against the initial disable, though I suppose it does create functional immunity to Fear and Taunt.

Only Buff we ever Need.Stability

Buff the GS. Damage, speed, something. Impending wet noodle slow-mo attack needs a buff.

@dceptaconroy.7928 said:Buff the GS. Damage, speed, something. Impending wet noodle slow-mo attack needs a buff.

I would argue for speed being the most useful both in PvE and PvP situations.

Hello everyone, I wanted to share with you my Power Reaper build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBhOD7kZTodTs2GwcTgeTsgLYUnh2wzKuK+FLjQXtAwBA-j5AaAB4+EAAoMglXEAA

It has a high damage output with a big healthpool, big healthpool equals more life force.

Spectral Armor together with Locust swarm can generate life force, even when in shroud.

Sigil of agility is triggered upon entering and leaving shroud, given it´s off cooldown.

There is a lot of dodging involved :dizzy:

Let me know what you guys think.

(This is for PvP)

Fixes: PVE ONLY SPLIT BALANCE

1- Greatsword autoattack damage increased by 10%. My guardian's greatsword does more DPS while being much faster. Greatsword auto chain #1 and 2 apply 3 stacks of vulnerability for 8 seconds each, and greatsword autochain #3 also removes 2 boons (mesmer sword removes 1 boon but the attack rate is much faster). Power spec necromancers should have boon rip options, not just condi.

2- Gravedigger damage increased by 10% and cast time decreased by 1/4 secs.

3- Reaper Shroud skill 1 and 4 damage buffed by 40%. It's that weak compared to camping greatsword out of shroud (and greatsword is currently weak).

4- Shivers of Dread now also increases damage against vulnerable/chilled foes by 10%.

5- Life Eater swapped with relentless pursuit. Life siphon value is now 15% of all critical hit damage.

6- Reaper's Onslaught now also grants the same ferocity bonus after leaving shroud for 15 seconds.

7- Greatsword 5 should be decreased in cd down to 12 seconds if it's going to be a flat out worse version of guardian greatsword 5. Reaper has no real mobility, it should be good at dragging opponents to him.

8- Nightfall should be centered on the reaper as an aura like the warrior's torch 5.

9- Dark fields could be improved to have a life leech value of 15% crit damage to increase their usefulness and attractiveness to a group.

10- Why is spectral grasp a whopping 50 sec cd? It does same job as guardian greatsword or F1 but with many times a longer cooldown. Halve that cd, please.

Reaper shouts reworked. They now apply their benefit to nearby allies and trigger on their next attack.

You're all weaklings might stacks increased to 8 and duration increased to 15 seconds. It's still a worse version of for great justice in PvE but at least it's not totally awful.

Alternatively, using a shout can natively increase nearby allies power and ferocity by 225 for 20 seconds. Grant necros something to be attractive to a group, or buff their DPS substantially.

A dragonhunter or thief should not be doing more damage than a reaper in PvE if they provide more group utility. Which they do.

@dceptaconroy.7928 said:Buff the GS. Damage, speed, something. Impending wet noodle slow-mo attack needs a buff.

Reaper-GS has the highest damage out of all greatswords while also being the slowest so I would say increasing the attack-speed is enough to improve the gs in general.Well, we also lack mobility on GS so a new ability that gives us a leap, jump or something similiar would improve GS a lot as well.

Intro - Outside of the below suggestions, I really just want Reaper to live up to its theme. I'd be fine with the current damage if our slow stalking killer was like taking down a boss, one you couldn't burst down. I'd be fine with our current survival if our damage lived up to that, "he's slow, but if he gets to you, you're dead" idea they put forth. Classes should be afraid to get near a reaper in PvP, and some classes, like Rangers, actually have to fight a Reaper like this, they have to stay away and whittle the Reaper down slowly. It's possible for the Ranger, but it's also possible for the Necromancer. People may bring up examples of particularly nasty thief builds that don't have to worry about getting into Reaper melee range, but, honestly, that's a problem with Thieves and other classes - that need looked at - not with the Reaper.

If such issues aren't addressed on these particular classes though? Then yes, Reaper needs a, "You got near the reaper, it was a bad idea" punishment ability/mechanic. If we're keeping with the slow Reaper than just slams their enemies then I'd say that punishment would be like an enrage timer of sorts, if you stay near the Reaper for too long, through some mechanic, they can start smashing right through defenses like blocks/evades/dodges/etc, perhaps on a stack based system for every X amount of "units of time" the hostile mob/player has stayed in the Reaper's range, which is a very movie monster thing, what with people thinking they're safe and then all of a sudden the monster comes smashing through a wall/foils their victims plans/finds them where they're hiding (speaking of which, Reaper need Reveal, see Nightfall below).

The new Sniper Elite Spec for Thief has made me realize what's missing from Reaper to fulfill that stalking monster you can't get rid of fantasy. They need a way to mark their target, and prevent them from running away, without giving the Reaper itself more mobility. I'm not sure exactly how this should work, but the basic idea is some form of, "mark" that fear the target back toward the reaper if they get too far away (or drags them toward the reaper [not to the reaper, just toward them]. Alternatively, it causes mobility skills to fail and drags enemy back toward the reaper (not to the reaper, just toward them). The idea is to prevent escape abilities like blinks and shadow steps from allowing the enemy to get "too much" distance, without actually giving the Reaper additional mobility. The visual of being dragged toward the monster that's stalking you, but still trying to scramble away, is exactly what should come to mind when you think of the Reaper.

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Now, onward:

1. The Reaper needs, "Don't Fear the Reaper". Which makes them immune to fear. It's not a balance issue. It's not something the Reaper needs for combat. This is purely a theme. With a trait it may even punish you for trying to fear the reaper, don't fear the reaper in this case would actually be a warning. :D

2. Quite simply we need to bring back the old Shroud mechanic prior to release that negated CC/movement impairing effects while in shroud, given shroud actively cannot stay up forever, this is not even remotely over powered as some may put forth. The only thing I'd do different is put the CC/movement impairing effects on a Reaper trait, and have it only last X number of seconds after activating shroud (no I don't mean stability, I mean an outright immunity to cc and movement impairing effects that cannot be removed for a certain duration). Replace Relentless Pursuit, the stability on shroud entry trait is for core Necro and Scourges (as should be the impairement removal on shroud trait). The Reaper's pursuit of its victim should indeed be Relentless. It just keeps coming for you.

3. GS damage could either be better, or it could be faster or maybe a little of both.

4. Shouts . . . either massively buff the damage they do, and change nothing else, or drastically increase their non-damaging effects. Alternatively allow the benefits of Reaper shouts to effect allies as well.

5. Gravedigger needs to either be much faster, or do drastically more damage, or something in between.

6. Soul Eater is . . . I mean it makes greatsword cooldowns lower. The tiny amount of regeneration it grants is really pointless. It's never made a difference even once. We've had two shots at this trait now, and I just have to assume the developers don't know what to do with it.

7. Spectral Wall needs to last longer and absorb projectiles while shooting fearing projectiles back at enemies.

8. Dark and Poison fields need rethought and need rethought, especially in regard to how Necromancers interact with them.

9. Nightfall should be an aura around the Reaper. It should proc out reveal around the reaper in an area larger than its normal area of effects, but the old effect should stay the same range. This Reveal Proc should likely be attached to a Reaper trait, so you have to purposely spec into it, and lose something else you might want in trade.

10. Reaper's Onlsaught needs something outside of Shroud, because, quite simply, extra damage in shroud, where you do less damage in shroud, even with all the +damage in shroud traits combined, than out of shroud is . . . kind of really pointless.

11. The Lich changes were interesting, and I enjoy it thematically, but it's still a pretty unimpressive elite that I'd never take if I didn't just enjoy the theme so much.

12. Spectral skills in general have far too long cooldowns for far, far too little effect and the spectral trait is a pitiful waste of a trait slot. Indeed, it was a pitiful waste of a trait slot before and then they nerfed it . . . because Vital Persistence was too good, and no one ever took the spectral trait (or the fear trait) so . . . nerfing the spectral trait clearly solved that. Spectral Mastery needs a lot. A Lot. A LOT. To make it worth taking, and someone needs to consider that Spectral Skill cooldowns are far, far to long regardless of whether we're talking base or traited spectral cooldowns.

13. Spectral Grasp should be renamed Spectral Prison, a large aura that cripples enemies within it and knocks enemies back toward the Necromancer/Reaper/Scourge if they try to get out of the aura. Who knows, it may actually be worth a 50 second cooldown then.

14. Speaking of the fear trait. Fear of Death is not good. Our fear durations are laughably short and we have very little access to fear in base Necromancer and Reaper in the first place. A trait that barely increases our fear durations to basically nothing to slightly more than nothing is still essentially nothing. They wanted people to at least consider this trait, I assume, but, then they did nothing to make it worth consideration. Vital Persistence is still, hands down, the most powerful trait in that tier and that's not because it is or was too powerful - it's because it HAS NO COMPETITION from Fear of Death or Spectral Mastery.

15a. Chilling Nova is actually fine, but if we want a more power-centric reaper I'd up the base damage the novas can do as a power dictated effect, maybe increase the size of the novas themselves?15b. I'd change how Chilling Novas do damage via Deathly Chill. In GW1 Deathly Chill wasn't a condition skill, just a skill that did more, or less, damage based on their health. Essentially if the enemy were above 50% health, it did X damage + Y damage, and if they were below 50% it only did X damage. Having a decent sized Nova that did straight up power damage, and more or less depending on enemy health % would be an interesting addition to Power Reapers.

Note - Unfortunately 15a/15b would also partially gut Condition Reapers, and, that's a real problem with Reaper. Condition Reapers want to keep being Condition Reapers, but, it often seems to be to the detriment of the Reaper's Power capabilities. Honestly, I don't have a problem with Condition Reapers but I'm not sure the elite spec has enough room for Power and Condition builds.

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Note - In all honesty, they've gone about Condition Necromancer builds all wrong too, and I solely blame Dhuumfire. This obsession with burning, because it is a nasty condition, rather than giving Disease, from GW1, to Necromancers and Scourges as a condition that worked as a built in Epidemic. Disease was a Condition in GW1 that acted as a damage over time that would spread to other enemies the diseased enemies got to close to. We never should have had epidemic, and instead a trait that allowed diseased enemies to spread other conditions when they spread the disease they were carrying when _____ condition was met, likely with some form of limitation on how many conditions could be spread that way at once. I cannot think of a better condition and trait for Necromancers . . . but that's a Condition Necromancer thread.

In closing - I don't actually think all of these things should happen at once. I don't hate the Necromancer class. I love the Necromancer class, and I hope our next Elite Spec brings back the Hex based Necro from GW1.

@Arzurag.7506 said:

@dceptaconroy.7928 said:Buff the GS. Damage, speed, something. Impending wet noodle slow-mo attack needs a buff.

It really doesn't. Play guardian greatsword and notice how their greatsword abilities all hit for more because guardians have more damage modifiers and reaper greatsword doesn't have that much more base damage on the autoattack let alone whirling wrath to merit the much higher cast times.

What's worse, reaper's greatsword pull is a way worse, buggier version of the guardian one.

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:Stability belongs to the base necro stuff, really. Either a rehauled deathmagic trait, or added to some kinda utility skill, anything spectral wise would fit. We get 2 sources of stability with reaper, one is always in shroud, the other one is free to choose, that basicly would be enough, IF base necro gets some as well.

Spectral Wall with stability would feel awkward. I mean if it gave stability it would need to be a stunbreak, as it has no instant cast. And having a stunbreak on a groundtargeted wall thats purpose is to run through feels really weird.. i mean you ensure that you can run trough it, but it only gives protection. Now if the wall made you immune to damage for 3 seconds or so that would actually be usefull.

I would rather tie the stability to spectral walk, or even better add the functionality to become immune to CC while under its effect. Really, your a ghost for its duration. You cant knock a ghost around.

The reapers protection idea is nice, but i think it would be too strong without icd.

Another idea in that regard for deathmagic is to add a trait that basicly spawns a spectral/undead whatever copy of yourself when X occurs. When you leave shroud, when you drop low, etc. The copy would be spawned Y units behind you or away from the source of damage and you are immune to damage or CC or even both for as long as the copy exists. The copy would be very fragile of course, but it would force your opponents, or at least one of them, to get away from you to kill it, generating lifeforce in the process.

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Arzurag.7506 said:

@dceptaconroy.7928 said:Buff the GS. Damage, speed, something. Impending wet noodle slow-mo attack needs a buff.

Yeah guardian GS is better. Its quicker, more reliable and it has trait interactions. A good start would be too turn skill 4 into a well for the purpose of traits. The pull could be a leash, so that you can controll when the pull occurs. But im afraid that would be too similar to the Guardian GS Pull. Maybe we could controll the actual "pull" sequence by a flipover skill? Leashing skill 5 out does damage or fear or whatever and we have 3 seconds to call it back for the pull to create more play. Also turning it into a fully groundtargeted spell. Even better the "claws" of the pull stay at that location and we pull it directly back to our location, so we can run around, set ourself up and pull back as we please. That would be neat.

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:Stability belongs to the base necro stuff, really. Either a rehauled deathmagic trait, or added to some kinda utility skill, anything spectral wise would fit. We get 2 sources of stability with reaper, one is always in shroud, the other one is free to choose, that basicly would be enough, IF base necro gets some as well.

Spectral Wall was more spitballing than serious. Spectral Walk would be good to have Stability on.

The idea behind the Reaper's Protection thought was that it requires twice as much CC to keep you locked down. A single CC works just as it always does (except Fear and Taunt, in this case), but chain CC becomes twice as difficult. Another possibility is that it gives you a short duration buff where, if you are disabled again, you get an automatic stunbreak. The no ICD is critical, however, as the purpose of the trait is to prevent you being stunlocked, but not interrupted. An opponent spacing out their disables will see no difference in play.

Does anybody else feel that Gravedigger should hit twice? I've felt this way since Reaper was announced...Make the second strike do half as much damage as the first (or something). It's such a painfully slow animation, and it's so easily countered with a blind. At least giving it a second strike (the animation shows what appears to be two strikes) would allow us to get something out of the 2s we wasted.

I liked the comment about making Reaper shouts reworked so they're shared across group members, I'd settle for that while keeping the shout effects unchanged.