New Lead Attacks Leads to Problems for Condi in PvE

I can understand reducing Lead Attacks' duration in PvP because of the aim to reduce burst damage, but in PvE the change was uncalled for. This should have been a "split between game modes" change.

For thief, the only condition setup that was even close to raid-viable was Condition Daredevil. Before the December 11 patch, it wasn't that great-- considering the other options, like Mirage (Or literally any other Condition DPS option), but it still did okay sustained condition damage. Its rotation centered around maintaining maximum stacks of the Lead Attacks trait for most of its damage, while also weaving in dagger auto-attack chains, and using Caltrops and Venoms.

The December 11 Balance patch brought two specific changes to this specific build. Let's talk about the first one, which seemed to aim at improving Condition Daredevil in PvE: Lotus Strike (Third hit in the dagger auto chain) now deals an extra stack of poison on hit, totaling 2. This would sound wonderful, especially when Daredevils sometimes need to weave in two autoattack chains in a row as filler.

But then a problem arises. The second notable change impacting Condition Daredevil in PvE is the change to Lead Attacks:

The duration of this trait's Lead Attacks stacking effect has been reduced from 15 seconds to 10 seconds. It now requires the player to be in combat in order to generate the stacking damage effect. Initiative skills that cause the player to enter combat will generate stacks of this trait.

The last two parts are inconsequential to the Conditon Daredevil, as it doesn't try to build initiative until an encounter begins anyway. Spending initiative before the fight is (and was) a DPS loss.

The real source of misdirection to the player is the first line, because after using enough initiative to reach maximum stacks, the player should then be enticed to use autoattack chains as filler until it would be appropriate to try and refresh Lead Attacks again before falling from the maximum 15 stacks. Stopping to complete two autoattack chains drops the player to a miserable 8 stacks. Completing just one autoattack chain still drops the user to 12 stacks. It raises the question of why the player should even be motivated to use the recently buffed auto chain.

Even if the player focused strictly on spending initiative and not autoattacking, it is impossible to fully maintain maximum stacks of Lead Attacks the longer a fight gets. Eventually, less initiative trickles in than the amount required for maintaining maximum stacks.

The sum of these effects has caused Condition Daredevil to sink from its bottom-of-the-pack position in PvE to completely invalidated. So the question is, where do we go from here?

I propose that in order to salvage this one specific build, the change to Lead Attacks, specifically the first line "The duration of this trait's Lead Attacks stacking effect has been reduced from 15 seconds to 10 seconds." be split between PvE and PvP/WvW to where this change does not affect the already tight rotation for Condition Daredevils in PvE.

If you took the time to read this, thanks for the consideration.

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:

I feel you bro but shamefully nobody will ever hear this. Especially in Anet HQWe have died out it seems.

If the auto chain does more damage and lead attacks is less damage then isn’t the whole setup somewhat on par?

I mean, yes it might not be as big a buff but I wouldn’t say your build is invalidated by slightly less uptime on Lead Attacks.

@saerni.2584 said:If the auto chain does more damage and lead attacks is less damage then isn’t the whole setup somewhat on par?

Not nearly. 1 additional stack of poison does not make up for the 5-7% lost Condition Damage stat. It's poison, not a nuclear bomb.

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:

@saerni.2584 said:If the auto chain does more damage and lead attacks is less damage then isn’t the whole setup somewhat on par?

Well, given the % chance on all Dagger attacks even a five percent loss may be made up elsewhere. I’d like to see actual numbers before assuming it’s a significant change.

@saerni.2584 said:Well, given the % chance on all Dagger attacks even a five percent loss may be made up elsewhere. I’d like to see actual numbers before assuming it’s a significant change.

Are you familiar with the term ceteris paribus? The poison chance existed beforehand.

Seeing as initiative is regenerated at a rate of 1 per second, which doesnt change even from alacrity and lead attacks last only for 10s now, it is as a 5% dmg reduction for the trickery line if no other forms of initiative regen are used like roll for initiative. This is because youre gated on how much initiative you can spend by how much you regenerate i.e. 1 per second, so 15s of dmg buff translates to 15% dmg increase if you constantly spend your ini, now its a 10% dmg buff effectively. Also since youre first attack after entering combat with a ini spender doesnt benefit from lead attack the changes are bit more than a 5% nerf. Since it was a PvP targeted change they should have a split between game modes and revert the way lead attacks works completely in PvE.