Core Mes revision — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Core Mes revision

praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited May 16, 2019 in Mesmer

I know similar kind of thread exist but this gone too far now.
To stop average (1200 rating) people from ranting on forum 24/7 they just nerfed everything by 50% and above.
Where are these so needed buffs/reworks for so outdated weapons?
Greatsword is outdated from 2012 year. Skills need buffs or rework skills or entire weapon to move on from gimmick "oneshot" to something healthier.
GS1 had a neat buff but still feels somewhat weak, you will die to retal faster than you take someones half hp. Could do more damage imo.
GS2 is only good for point blank shatter burst, outside that it does close to nothing.Gained bounce,lost bounce,gained it back and got nerfed more. n/c.
GS3 on release it was a pure meme.Many skills getting buffs but this damage on 12s cd is just a joke. I would like to comapre this to completely busted(9s cd) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blunderbuss even at maximum range the damage damage and coof. is higher(recently got a buff,mind you this ignore walls/LoS) than mind stab.

GS4 phantasm is good if it hits but struggle to do its damage on moving foes sometimes can hit only 1-2 attack out of 4, phantasms as main damage source of the mesmer is a joke, inconsistent/dumb AI can be easly exploited, how many times they spawn in the air doing nothing, sometimes gs/swordsman just attacking air for some reason.20 seconds cd is too high.
GS5 is the most important! Never got buffed/reworked since from 2012. The only thing they did fixed some bug and description? 200 base damage and 30 seconds cd for weird cone knockback, not even knockdown? Thats pathetic... Holo5 hit you from insane range in all direction and travel high ground but GS5 fail to hit if you are not on same level.
The only good thing they did for greatsword was slight auto attack buff,they did so for ranger longbow as well but damage % for ranger wasy waaaaaaay higher.
Anet made tendency to give weapon skills reduced recharge + unique bonus + 240 free stats. Why mesmer <https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fencer's_Finesse>; has 150 ferocity(why not power?), why to get this 150 ferocity you has to hold a sword and do a 10 melee hits for limited amount of time?
Why https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imagined_Burden is grandmaster trait ? Is that really strong ? Why there is no stats increase on it ? Its not even worth to be a grandmaster trait. I have a suggestion: merge it with egotism and give it permanent 5% bonus, remove second phantasm if you want. Make a new grandmaster-worth trait(remove from grandmaster to master tier with egotism merge).

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattered_Concentration
This should remove 2 boons now, boon spam is out of control and with domination you dont have that many clones anyway, one random boon feels terrible...

1h sword is another thing I would like to talk about.
Sword2 was killed for no reason, well they thought it would be nice to ruin core weapon that never been considered as broken since
june 2013 alrdy but suddenly because of mirage it became broken to its core? Even after mirage evade/vigor was gutted ? It does 8 hits, even thief pistol whip got Anet mercy and now it does 4 hits. You(Anet) gutted weapon in attempt to nerf mirage evasion. It was done.Mirage cloak nerfed to normal evade. Why nerf core weapons/traits to nerf certain elite spec???
Sword 3 clone getting demolished even before you can swap to it,oh how many times it was nerfed...Clone has only 2400 hp and die just to 1 auto attack/random aoe. Swap doesnt swap you with a clone on many places, so this skill just doesnt work, it has to swap you with a clone but it just doesnt, do something about it ?
Sword offhand suffered from unjustified nerfs post phantasm rework, 20s cd for slow walking phantasm that start his attack melee and without stun/long immobilize can be ignored just by walking. Heck I even can compare this to revenant offhand5 that shadowstep SLOW/CHILL and slap your enemy for 5.000-10.600 damage with 1/2s cast time(15s cd lol)

Scepter had a damage increase to make people use it, increased number of hits thus channeling time as well. As result people started to use it even if it was very clunky. And what now? Its ended up being even worse than before they gave it a buff. You shouldnt have ever touched this, just gutted another weapon that beg for a rework.

Torch is good ... The only thing is I dont like is 30s cooldown on phantasm. Its too long. Should be 20s to be on par with all other phantasms.

Honorable mentions :
Blinding Dissipation and Reflect on evade. This traits were just deleted. Taking away active defense from class that rely only on them,not through passive sustain/a lot of heals. Compensations anywhere?
Cry of pain used to give 1 confusion stack on every shatter, then they put all confusions onto 1 skill to remove it completely ,bravo, another buff to make it worse laters.
Vigor on crit: 3s every 10s. Similar traits on every other class is 5s every 10s. Some have 100% uptime.
Portal 50% duration nerf. Elites : time warp, moa signet.
Ineptitude overall 60% duration nerf.

I really dont understand, its hard to nerf overperforming skill by 10-25% and see if its need more? Waiting for months and then suddenly nuke it from orbit with 50-67% is fine?

Comments

  • Heartpains.7312Heartpains.7312 Member ✭✭✭

    I think the problem is we mesmers gotta get all our traits to work together, so it is not possible to go after elite specs anymore for mesmer, if they nerf mirage now, they are gonna delete it, they nerf chrono they are gonna delete it, I think we should go the path of nerfing other classes now.

    And even more issue is the 50% nerfs and even more than 50% at some point, this I can never understand why they would nerf things by that amount. Anyway I don't think it would be good idea to even think of nerfing chrono or mirage at this point.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 13, 2019

    I really dont understand, its hard to nerf overperforming skill by 10-25% and see if its need more? Waiting for months and then suddenly nuke it from orbit with 50-67% is fine?

    That's just their m.o. sadly - can look at it as forced meta changes by Anet in attempt to keep things "fresh", because balancing so that everything is on par with maximum build variety may be impossible.

    For the record I don't like it either.

    IH hybrid | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    I really dont understand, its hard to nerf overperforming skill by 10-25% and see if its need more? Waiting for months and then suddenly nuke it from orbit with 50-67% is fine?

    That's just their m.o. sadly - can look at it as forced meta changes by Anet in attempt to keep things "fresh", because balancing so that everything is on par with maximum build variety may be impossible.

    For the record I don't like it either.

    I don't recall other professions getting that high % of nerf. They do things pretty softly often. 1sec of stances comes to mind.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    I really dont understand, its hard to nerf overperforming skill by 10-25% and see if its need more? Waiting for months and then suddenly nuke it from orbit with 50-67% is fine?

    That's just their m.o. sadly - can look at it as forced meta changes by Anet in attempt to keep things "fresh", because balancing so that everything is on par with maximum build variety may be impossible.

    For the record I don't like it either.

    I don't recall other professions getting that high % of nerf. They do things pretty softly often. 1sec of stances comes to mind.

    True, though I try not to point at other professions due to attracting the haters who like to lurk this subforum. :)

    For mesmer though it's always been this way. Something too good? Nuke it out of existence.

    IH hybrid | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree with all suggestions.
    Other than that, I still want Fencer's to be a trait in the style of "gain 120 power and additional 120 power for every sword you wield. Sword skills' cooldowns are reduced by 20%." then buff offhand sword phantasm by making it follow the target. It's needed at this point.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2019

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    I really dont understand, its hard to nerf overperforming skill by 10-25% and see if its need more? Waiting for months and then suddenly nuke it from orbit with 50-67% is fine?

    That's just their m.o. sadly - can look at it as forced meta changes by Anet in attempt to keep things "fresh", because balancing so that everything is on par with maximum build variety may be impossible.

    For the record I don't like it either.

    They taking away all possible damage, its not for sake keeping things FRESH. Its attempt to kill the class and all possible builds, do u remember mesmer having highest build variety ? You expect class to survive 50-70% damage nerfs all over the place? Now to do 50% of what other classes do u have to go full glass zerk with full offense while other classes dont even slot so hardcore for damage and traitlines. Compensations in damage anywhere?
    Where are all compensations for taking away ACTIVE defenses from the class that rely on them the most? Its not holo with all passive boons with a turret or ele with lots of cleanses/sustain/ heals to keep himself alive, not a facetank machine like warrior or soulbeast/fb.Even at evasion its fallen behind the most, only necro/guardian lacking here .
    In another thread someone pointed out they shaved holo leap with 17% twice, mesmer getting AXED with 50-75%. What the hell is this?
    I really really hate how weak is greatsword and how its stuck in the past,especially GS5, 30 seconds ...for that? Look at engi rifle, holo is far away from underperforming classes and rifle every skill got buffed, even overcharge bug became a "feature", certain dev love the class too much apparently.
    GS2/pistol5 if you incorrectly faced your enemy will go on full cooldown meanwhile GS4 on warrior was fixed and no more goes on full cooldown.
    If that not bias and hate towards the mesmer even from devs side I dont know then, their favorite child privilege

  • Good points and suggestions. If Anet is serious about course correcting elites to be horizontal options rather than core replacements, they really do need to make core mesmer viable. Its elites really can't take anymore gutting.

  • Hoodie.1045Hoodie.1045 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ArenaNet taking the elite specialization trade off route is a good thing in my opinion. Berserker now has its own F1 skills that are completely different to both core warrior and Spellbreaker. Thief got Swipe and while it received mixed to mostly negative reception and I think it would be nice for it to be buffed in the next balance patch, it's still a noticeable trade off.

    This is what mesmer's elite specializations currently don't have. Instead they do the things core mesmer does, but better. Take core power shatter mesmer: it's got little to no mobility besides Blink, cleansing and sustain, but with Mirage you've got tons of mobility thanks to the ambush skill Mirage Thrust, Jaunt and Blink. Nerfing the elite specializations over and over won't create more build variety, instead what the core professions need is their own identity or something that the elite specs can't have, like core revenant. Nobody saw this coming, but I'm glad ArenaNet did this. Giving Ancient Echo to core revenant only is a proper way of making trade offs.

    Karras The Engineer

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    I really dont understand, its hard to nerf overperforming skill by 10-25% and see if its need more? Waiting for months and then suddenly nuke it from orbit with 50-67% is fine?

    That's just their m.o. sadly - can look at it as forced meta changes by Anet in attempt to keep things "fresh", because balancing so that everything is on par with maximum build variety may be impossible.

    For the record I don't like it either.

    They taking away all possible damage, its not for sake keeping things FRESH. Its attempt to kill the class and all possible builds, do u remember mesmer having highest build variety ? You expect class to survive 50-70% damage nerfs all over the place? Now to do 50% of what other classes do u have to go full glass zerk with full offense while other classes dont even slot so hardcore for damage and traitlines. Compensations in damage anywhere?
    Where are all compensations for taking away ACTIVE defenses from the class that rely on them the most? Its not holo with all passive boons with a turret or ele with lots of cleanses/sustain/ heals to keep himself alive, not a facetank machine like warrior or soulbeast/fb.Even at evasion its fallen behind the most, only necro/guardian lacking here .
    In another thread someone pointed out they shaved holo leap with 17% twice, mesmer getting AXED with 50-75%. What the hell is this?
    I really really hate how weak is greatsword and how its stuck in the past,especially GS5, 30 seconds ...for that? Look at engi rifle, holo is far away from underperforming classes and rifle every skill got buffed, even overcharge bug became a "feature", certain dev love the class too much apparently.
    GS2/pistol5 if you incorrectly faced your enemy will go on full cooldown meanwhile GS4 on warrior was fixed and no more goes on full cooldown.
    If that not bias and hate towards the mesmer even from devs side I dont know then, their favorite child privilege

    Putting my responses here also, with slight changes:

    Oh I agree with you. It's just so "normal" for how this game balance is done that I'm kind of apathetic towards it at the moment, where I simply don't care enough to waste my time and effort and only playing gw2 casually - maybe slightly salty but sadly there's pretty much nothing we can do about it. Ok maybe there are instances where forum feedback may have been taken on board - eg thinking of things like putting confusion back on axe 3 after they temporarily changed it to torment.

    I hope to think all the devs aren't biased against mesmer (though maybe one of them may be, who knows... would love to be a fly on the wall during their balance discussions) and care for all their creations, hence the only reasonable explanations are forced obsolescence of traits/skills/builds etc (whether temporary as a method of "buying time" to think of proper changes in future patches, or permanent), or simply negligence. Add to that a bit of "pride" with refusal to directly revert certain changes (eg critical infusion, nomad's endurance, jaunt, etc...) and we end up in this mess.

    There's many issues with core mesmer that need redesigning or just straight buffs, and almost all of them you mention in the OP I agree with. One can only hope the future balance patches are more frequent and bring the changes needed.

    The good thing is I think mirage at least has seen the worst of the nerfs, so it should be moving in the right direction from here. :)

    IH hybrid | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2019

    @Hoodie.1045 said:
    ArenaNet taking the elite specialization trade off route is a good thing in my opinion. Berserker now has its own F1 skills that are completely different to both core warrior and Spellbreaker. Thief got Swipe and while it received mixed to mostly negative reception and I think it would be nice for it to be buffed in the next balance patch, it's still a noticeable trade off.

    This is what mesmer's elite specializations currently don't have. Instead they do the things core mesmer does, but better. Take core power shatter mesmer: it's got little to no mobility besides Blink, cleansing and sustain, but with Mirage you've got tons of mobility thanks to the ambush skill Mirage Thrust, Jaunt and Blink. Nerfing the elite specializations over and over won't create more build variety, instead what the core professions need is their own identity or something that the elite specs can't have, like core revenant. Nobody saw this coming, but I'm glad ArenaNet did this. Giving Ancient Echo to core revenant only is a proper way of making trade offs.

    Revenant is not trading off this new F2 which is nearly useless almost in every legend, his new F skills being massively upgraded if you would compare.So its not a trade off,its just as same core revenant but infinitely better, wasnt that your point when you made your post? To put it simple... you gives X class useless F skill and remove it when you spec for elite spec and call it trade off and unique thing that elite spec cant do, sounds incredibly stupid, no ?
    Will mirage get new shattrs?Chrono ? About trade off... F5 on chrono has a price and its clones and insane huge cooldown that none of the classes have, its freaking 105s cd mate. While playing chrono I dont get the feeling I play with unique elite spec, better than core for sure.
    Mirage lose its ability to evade for the same distance and basically sit in every aoe you got caught into. Ambush mechanic is dumb now because you cant even cover your own ambush that does even less damage than warrior unblockable dodge...
    Core mesmer was terrible before any nerf but every nerf was pointed out at CORE mesmer instead of elite specs, guess why ? Sales!
    Let me give you clear example, phantasm rework, core overperforming? No, mirage phantasm overperforming? No (actually mirage evade was culript for being so good)
    Chrono? Yes
    People said NERF CP ! But instead they nerfed all phantasm including these which does no damage arldy to begin with. They kept nerfing everything until they finally nerf CP,still not deleted...
    Lets look at mirage . Swordmainhand seen tonns of nerfs,since 2015 its stopped and it was fine but to NERF MIRAGE evades which was ,again, thanks to 1s dodge, felt too much, they gutted sword on CORE which impact all three specs. Gutted vigor which impact all 3 core specs, gutted scepter(dont care tbh) which carried mesmer all variations.
    Mirage gets insane mobility ? Do you aware about its cost? Thats your vigor and ability to evade incoming attacks. Have u seen cmirage started with having sword and then completely ditched? Lack of damage and lack of vigor.
    As I Curunen said, they dont revert unnecessary nerfs

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Will mirage get new shattrs?Chrono ? About trade off... F5 on chrono has a price and its clones and insane huge cooldown that none of the classes have, its freaking 105s cd mate. While playing chrono I dont get the feeling I play with unique elite spec, better than core for sure.

    This.
    Chrono and mirage need different shatters and by different I don't mean same F1 deals damage F2 condi F3 daze F4 distortion but with different names (some of the elite suggestions do this), I mean really different, fresh stuff.
    Chrono and mirage apart from small gimmicks plays the same has 2012 mesmer.

    And honestly Mirage has been nerfed enough simply picking the spec is a trade off.
    People seem to forget the years worth of nerfs and ask for more?

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2019

    @Solori.6025 said:
    People seem to forget the years worth of nerfs and ask for more?

    Forgot to add this to my post but wanted to xD
    What else they want to take away from the mesmer in its current state? Give us at least something to play with. Mirage offer nothing when picking up this traitline.
    Its traits are worse copies of alrdy existing traits, the only traits is worth in entire elite spec is IH, without that mirage cant exist at all.
    Such infrequent access to CS makes everyone scream "reeeeeeee mesmer does it twice is too op!" regardless of absurd long cooldown. I wish it wouldnt exist @viquing.8254 had a thread about it.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2019

    After how bitter the community got about Mirage, despite multiple builds being able to go toe to toe with it as side noder duelists and either stall it out or win, and the ocean of boiling kitten that shot out of everyone's eyes, I actually don't think Arenanet will ever buff mesmer again no matter what happens. Considering how much condition mirage got nerfed last patch despite thoroughly being knocked out of the meta in the march patch despite multiple S-Tier builds that are performing far better mesmer I think A-net's goal is to eventually just make mesmer elementalist tier so it upsets less people in PvP. Doesn't matter if Zerkers are literally spamming 30k crits on a 5 second cooldown. It doesn't matter if scrapper is absurdly unkillable or if spellbreaker has an S tier mix of sustain and damage and mobility. People are still making threads kitten about Mesmers in the PvP subform over those other builds.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2019

    Most likely ,thats why I play revenant and I feel like its absurdly broken with everything it can do. Sword4-5 on marauder crit for 9-10k EACH. UA with impossible odds does 20k damage and its fine?! Cant believe anyone can defend this and say its just revenant thats skilled, lying to themselves thinking they are actually good, lol (Also immune to nerfs and trade offs, confirmed by anet in last patch)

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    Most likely ,thats why I play revenant and I feel like its absurdly broken with everything it can do. Sword4-5 on marauder crit for 9-10k EACH. UA with impossible odds does 20k damage and its fine?! Cant believe anyone can defend this and say its just revenant thats skilled, lying to themselves thinking they are actually good, lol (Also immune to nerfs and trade offs, confirmed by anet in last patch)

    Revenant was only ever high risk high reward in condition heavy metas like in Heart of Thorns when Condi-Chrono and Condi-reaper were top tier builds. Or during the start of Path of Fire when Scourge was an SS-Tier builds for solo queue and Condi Mirage was also top tier. In a power meta? Rev is outright godly.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • @mortrialus.3062 said:
    After how bitter the community got about Mirage, despite multiple builds being able to go toe to toe with it as side noder duelists and either stall it out or win, and the ocean of boiling kitten that shot out of everyone's eyes, I actually don't think Arenanet will ever buff mesmer again no matter what happens. Considering how much condition mirage got nerfed last patch despite thoroughly being knocked out of the meta in the march patch despite multiple S-Tier builds that are performing far better mesmer I think A-net's goal is to eventually just make mesmer elementalist tier so it upsets less people in PvP. Doesn't matter if Zerkers are literally spamming 30k crits on a 5 second cooldown. It doesn't matter if scrapper is absurdly unkillable or if spellbreaker has an S tier mix of sustain and damage and mobility. People are still making threads kitten about Mesmers in the PvP subform over those other builds.

    While I wouldn't say they've shown absolutely no interest in buffing/reworking Mesmer lately (they did give slight duration buffs to some stuns and dazes, tried to update Mass Invisibility, etc.), I'd be rather surprised if they give any significant buffs, reworks, or even reverts until after knocking the current overperformers down first. Let's see if they at least do that right.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    I'd be rather surprised if they give any significant buffs, reworks, or even reverts until after knocking the current overperformers down first. Let's see if they at least do that right.

    Dont think holo needed a buff last 2 patches, how about you ?

  • @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    I'd be rather surprised if they give any significant buffs, reworks, or even reverts until after knocking the current overperformers down first. Let's see if they at least do that right.

    Dont think holo needed a buff last 2 patches, how about you ?

    From today's update:

    • Prime Light Beam: The recharge time for this skill is now 60 seconds in all game modes.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/76298/game-update-notes-may-14-2019#latest

    So basically they reverted a recharge nerf from last August. So they do revert. There's hope! /s

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    After how bitter the community got about Mirage, despite multiple builds being able to go toe to toe with it as side noder duelists and either stall it out or win, and the ocean of boiling kitten that shot out of everyone's eyes, I actually don't think Arenanet will ever buff mesmer again no matter what happens. Considering how much condition mirage got nerfed last patch despite thoroughly being knocked out of the meta in the march patch despite multiple S-Tier builds that are performing far better mesmer I think A-net's goal is to eventually just make mesmer elementalist tier so it upsets less people in PvP. Doesn't matter if Zerkers are literally spamming 30k crits on a 5 second cooldown. It doesn't matter if scrapper is absurdly unkillable or if spellbreaker has an S tier mix of sustain and damage and mobility. People are still making threads kitten about Mesmers in the PvP subform over those other builds.

    While I wouldn't say they've shown absolutely no interest in buffing/reworking Mesmer lately (they did give slight duration buffs to some stuns and dazes, tried to update Mass Invisibility, etc.), I'd be rather surprised if they give any significant buffs, reworks, or even reverts until after knocking the current overperformers down first. Let's see if they at least do that right.

    Narrator: They won't.

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    After how bitter the community got about Mirage, despite multiple builds being able to go toe to toe with it as side noder duelists and either stall it out or win, and the ocean of boiling kitten that shot out of everyone's eyes, I actually don't think Arenanet will ever buff mesmer again no matter what happens. Considering how much condition mirage got nerfed last patch despite thoroughly being knocked out of the meta in the march patch despite multiple S-Tier builds that are performing far better mesmer I think A-net's goal is to eventually just make mesmer elementalist tier so it upsets less people in PvP. Doesn't matter if Zerkers are literally spamming 30k crits on a 5 second cooldown. It doesn't matter if scrapper is absurdly unkillable or if spellbreaker has an S tier mix of sustain and damage and mobility. People are still making threads kitten about Mesmers in the PvP subform over those other builds.

    While I wouldn't say they've shown absolutely no interest in buffing/reworking Mesmer lately (they did give slight duration buffs to some stuns and dazes, tried to update Mass Invisibility, etc.), I'd be rather surprised if they give any significant buffs, reworks, or even reverts until after knocking the current overperformers down first. Let's see if they at least do that right.

    How many patches in a row of S-Tier Spellbreaker, Rev, Firebrand, Holo, and Scrapper gone without any real nerfs? Oh we'll "reduce might stack duration by 2 seconds on rev." Meanwhile everything on mesmer gets a 50-60% nerf. Arenanet just doesn't want mesmers to be viable in PvP because the community and community "thought leaders" like a certain Holosmith Streamer don't want mesmer to be viable in PvP. Simple as that.

    The Rapid Regeneration joke is a nerf. Everyone gets nibbled away at the edges if they just aren't buffed further like Holosmith. Mesmer gets 50%-60% nerfs to anything. Arc Divider is criting for 30k. "Oh we'll nerf it by 25%." Oh great that'll help. Instead of One Shotting people it'll One Shot People, just with a bit less over kill.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    I'd be rather surprised if they give any significant buffs, reworks, or even reverts until after knocking the current overperformers down first. Let's see if they at least do that right.

    Dont think holo needed a buff last 2 patches, how about you ?

    From today's update:

    • Prime Light Beam: The recharge time for this skill is now 60 seconds in all game modes.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/76298/game-update-notes-may-14-2019#latest

    So basically they reverted a recharge nerf from last August. So they do revert. There's hope! /s

    Because a certain popular streamer plays holosmith and we have to keep him happy on his boosted af broken holo.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    I'd be rather surprised if they give any significant buffs, reworks, or even reverts until after knocking the current overperformers down first. Let's see if they at least do that right.

    Dont think holo needed a buff last 2 patches, how about you ?

    From today's update:

    • Prime Light Beam: The recharge time for this skill is now 60 seconds in all game modes.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/76298/game-update-notes-may-14-2019#latest

    So basically they reverted a recharge nerf from last August. So they do revert. There's hope! /s

    Because a certain popular streamer plays holosmith and we have to keep him happy on his boosted af broken holo.

    I dont think they do it to please certain boosted monkey ...
    Buffed holo 2 patches in a row/rampage that 2shot you its totally fine bruh.
    On the other side we have a good news, nothing else is left to nerf on the mesmer

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    I'd be rather surprised if they give any significant buffs, reworks, or even reverts until after knocking the current overperformers down first. Let's see if they at least do that right.

    Dont think holo needed a buff last 2 patches, how about you ?

    From today's update:

    • Prime Light Beam: The recharge time for this skill is now 60 seconds in all game modes.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/76298/game-update-notes-may-14-2019#latest

    So basically they reverted a recharge nerf from last August. So they do revert. There's hope! /s

    Because a certain popular streamer plays holosmith and we have to keep him happy on his boosted af broken holo.

    I dont think they do it to please certain boosted monkey ...
    Buffed holo 2 patches in a row/rampage that 2shot you its totally fine bruh.
    On the other side we have a good news, nothing else is left to nerf on the mesmer

    Maybe not but when multiple pvp and balance devs hang out in private discords with him and hhave 1 on 1 facetime while he whinges about mirage its going to give them a bigger impression than anyone posting here, no matter how well written or eloquent.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    I'd be rather surprised if they give any significant buffs, reworks, or even reverts until after knocking the current overperformers down first. Let's see if they at least do that right.

    Dont think holo needed a buff last 2 patches, how about you ?

    From today's update:

    • Prime Light Beam: The recharge time for this skill is now 60 seconds in all game modes.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/76298/game-update-notes-may-14-2019#latest

    So basically they reverted a recharge nerf from last August. So they do revert. There's hope! /s

    Because a certain popular streamer plays holosmith and we have to keep him happy on his boosted af broken holo.

    I dont think they do it to please certain boosted monkey ...
    Buffed holo 2 patches in a row/rampage that 2shot you its totally fine bruh.
    On the other side we have a good news, nothing else is left to nerf on the mesmer

    Maybe not but when multiple pvp and balance devs hang out in private discords with him and hhave 1 on 1 facetime while he whinges about mirage its going to give them a bigger impression than anyone posting here, no matter how well written or eloquent.

    That boostedsmith always been crying about how weak holo is. Scrapper/holo together wins mAT. Anet: underpeforming! Revert unblockable heavy hitting knockdown elite and make it more spammable!

  • Twilight Tempest.7584Twilight Tempest.7584 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    After how bitter the community got about Mirage, despite multiple builds being able to go toe to toe with it as side noder duelists and either stall it out or win, and the ocean of boiling kitten that shot out of everyone's eyes, I actually don't think Arenanet will ever buff mesmer again no matter what happens. Considering how much condition mirage got nerfed last patch despite thoroughly being knocked out of the meta in the march patch despite multiple S-Tier builds that are performing far better mesmer I think A-net's goal is to eventually just make mesmer elementalist tier so it upsets less people in PvP. Doesn't matter if Zerkers are literally spamming 30k crits on a 5 second cooldown. It doesn't matter if scrapper is absurdly unkillable or if spellbreaker has an S tier mix of sustain and damage and mobility. People are still making threads kitten about Mesmers in the PvP subform over those other builds.

    While I wouldn't say they've shown absolutely no interest in buffing/reworking Mesmer lately (they did give slight duration buffs to some stuns and dazes, tried to update Mass Invisibility, etc.), I'd be rather surprised if they give any significant buffs, reworks, or even reverts until after knocking the current overperformers down first. Let's see if they at least do that right.

    How many patches in a row of S-Tier Spellbreaker, Rev, Firebrand, Holo, and Scrapper gone without any real nerfs? Oh we'll "reduce might stack duration by 2 seconds on rev." Meanwhile everything on mesmer gets a 50-60% nerf. Arenanet just doesn't want mesmers to be viable in PvP because the community and community "thought leaders" like a certain Holosmith Streamer don't want mesmer to be viable in PvP. Simple as that.

    The Rapid Regeneration joke is a nerf. Everyone gets nibbled away at the edges if they just aren't buffed further like Holosmith. Mesmer gets 50%-60% nerfs to anything. Arc Divider is criting for 30k. "Oh we'll nerf it by 25%." Oh great that'll help. Instead of One Shotting people it'll One Shot People, just with a bit less over kill.

    If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say they probably want Mes to be about Thief level in terms of overall usefulness and ability in competitive modes. Since both are without a doubt the biggest sources of salt. It never ceases to amaze me when people still gripe about Mesmer like they haven't seen over a year's worth of nerfs and possibly the biggest magnitude nerfs in the game's history.

    And wow, just wow. Some time within the last 10 minutes they went and closed the thread I was about to link as an example of the latest whinging. Why, I'll never know. @Kylden Ar.3724 just started it this morning and it didn't get out of hand or anything that I saw. Now apparently we're not even allowed to try educating the baseless complainers.

    Edit: Just saw this thread: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/76301/wow-just-wow#latest. Think the outrage over even some rather modest nerfs to a currently top-tier class is just a preview of things to come should the other offenders finally get what should be coming? I don't think anyone outside of Mesmer, Thief, Ele, and to some extent Scourge mains know what real nerfs feel like. Sheesh.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wait until some 50% damage nerfs fall on their head and watch their subforum being drown in tears just like revs over perma 25 might stacks. Auto attack damage nerfed by 10% ? End of the world....

  • Soulock.1752Soulock.1752 Member ✭✭
    edited May 15, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    I know similar kind of thread exist but this gone too far now.
    To stop average (1200 rating) people from ranting on forum 24/7 they just nerfed everything by 50% and above.
    Where are these so needed buffs/reworks for so outdated weapons?
    Greatsword is outdated from 2012 year. Skills need buffs or rework skills or entire weapon to move on from gimmick "oneshot" to something healthier.
    GS1 had a neat buff but still feels somewhat weak, you will die to retal faster than you take someones half hp. Could do more damage imo.
    GS2 is only good for point blank shatter burst, outside that it does close to nothing.Gained bounce,lost bounce,gained it back and got nerfed more. n/c.
    GS3 on release it was a pure meme.Many skills getting buffs but this damage on 12s cd is just a joke. I would like to comapre this to completely busted(9s cd) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blunderbuss even at maximum range the damage damage and coof. is higher(recently got a buff,mind you this ignore walls/LoS) than mind stab.

    GS4 phantasm is good if it hits but struggle to do its damage on moving foes sometimes can hit only 1-2 attack out of 4, phantasms as main damage source of the mesmer is a joke, inconsistent/dumb AI can be easly exploited, how many times they spawn in the air doing nothing, sometimes gs/swordsman just attacking air for some reason.20 seconds cd is too high.
    GS5 is the most important! Never got buffed/reworked since from 2012. The only thing they did fixed some bug and description? 200 base damage and 30 seconds cd for weird cone knockback, not even knockdown? Thats pathetic... Holo5 hit you from insane range in all direction and travel high ground but GS5 fail to hit if you are not on same level.
    The only good thing they did for greatsword was slight auto attack buff,they did so for ranger longbow as well but damage % for ranger wasy waaaaaaay higher.
    Anet made tendency to give weapon skills reduced recharge + unique bonus + 240 free stats. Why mesmer <https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fencer's_Finesse>; has 150 ferocity(why not power?), why to get this 150 ferocity you has to hold a sword and do a 10 melee hits for limited amount of time?
    Why https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imagined_Burden is grandmaster trait ? Is that really strong ? Why there is no stats increase on it ? Its not even worth to be a grandmaster trait. I have a suggestion: merge it with egotism and give it permanent 5% bonus, remove second phantasm if you want. Make a new grandmaster-worth trait(remove from grandmaster to master tier with egotism merge)

    1h sword is another thing I would like to talk about.
    Sword2 was killed for no reason, well they thought it would be nice to ruin core weapon that never been considered as broken since
    june 2013 alrdy but suddenly because of mirage it became broken to its core? Even after mirage evade/vigor was gutted ? It does 8 hits, even thief pistol whip got Anet mercy and now it does 4 hits. You(Anet) gutted weapon in attempt to nerf mirage evasion. It was done.Mirage cloak nerfed to normal evade. Why nerf core weapons/traits to nerf certain elite spec???
    Sword 3 clone getting demolished even before you can swap to it,oh how many times it was nerfed...Clone has only 2400 hp and die just to 1 auto attack/random aoe. Swap doesnt swap you with a clone on many places, so this skill just doesnt work, it has to swap you with a clone but it just doesnt, do something about it ?
    Sword offhand suffered from unjustified nerfs post phantasm rework, 20s cd for slow walking phantasm that start his attack melee and without stun/long immobilize can be ignored just by walking. Heck I even can compare this to revenant offhand5 that shadowstep SLOW/CHILL and slap your enemy for 5.000-10.600 damage with 1/2s cast time(15s cd lol)

    Scepter had a damage increase to make people use it, increased number of hits thus channeling time as well. As result people started to use it even if it was very clunky. And what now? Its ended up being even worse than before they gave it a buff. You shouldnt have ever touched this, just gutted another weapon that beg for a rework.

    Torch is good ... The only thing is I dont like is 30s cooldown on phantasm. Its too long. Should be 20s to be on par with all other phantasms.

    Honorable mentions :
    Blinding Dissipation and Reflect on evade. This traits were just deleted. Taking away active defense from class that rely only on them,not through passive sustain/a lot of heals. Compensations anywhere?
    Cry of pain used to give 1 confusion stack on every shatter, then they put all confusions onto 1 skill to remove it completely ,bravo, another buff to make it worse laters.
    Vigor on crit: 3s every 10s. Similar traits on every other class is 5s every 10s. Some have 100% uptime.
    Portal 50% duration nerf. Elites : time warp, moa signet.
    Ineptitude overall 60% duration nerf.

    I really dont understand, its hard to nerf overperforming skill by 10-25% and see if its need more? Waiting for months and then suddenly nuke it from orbit with 50-67% is fine?

    I'm a Power Core Mesmer that plays WvW Roaming/PvP... I would like to agree about GS (especially GS 3...) and Main+offhand sword skills like sword 2 really needs some love as my survival and damage against class that just range me (Unblockable Soulbeasts/Classic Power Rangers/Stealth Hard Druids/Gunflame/Perma Stealth Deadeye/PP Daredevil/Reveal Discharge Holosmith/Dragonhunter 1500 Trueshot + reveal F1 etc) or simply CC me then melee me to death (Holosmith/Berserker/Rampage Spellbreaker/Rampage Warriors/Soulbeasts/Power Mirage/Chilly Power Reaper with pulls/DragonTrapper/D+F Weaver etc) just make it... useless sometimes, as for offhand sword.

    Well, short duration block ain't gonna do much with all the insane unblockable stuff I've encountered... I never realized how much Core Roaming/PvP players suffer since I use to play Power Mirage often and claim I'm better... but in reality a dueler I beaten from Full [TIME] a good Power Signet Chronomancer was right... you never really win as long you play a spec that just carry you. After swapping to Core Mesmer, learned their hardship and realized how bad it is... hopefully, Anet not just rework Core Mesmer stuff, but to other Core specs like Engineer, Necromancer and Elementalist gets proper rework to stand on equal ground with other specs.

    Wishful thinking that may never come true...

  • Arimir.5864Arimir.5864 Member ✭✭
    edited May 24, 2019

    Having come from wow, and playing a mesmer, and reading this thread reminds me of how warlocks used to be in wow (mop xpac and before)..

    • Was it useful? nerf it
    • Did it perform? nerf it
    • Did it get you kill in pvp? nerf it
    • Did the community complain about it? nerf it
    • Topping DPS charts? nerf it
    • is mage and rogue getting buffed again? nerf warlocks again, because.
    • did warlocks get a nerf? nerf more of their abilities and traits all at once
    • did other classes have single abilities buffed? Make warlocks abilities weaker so they have to use more of them to do any form of damage... and nerf them a little more whilst any change is happening

    In all honesty, I don't know enough about the intricacies of professions in GW2 to really feel a % difference in any abilities as it stands, but I feel its does pretty decent how it is now... maybe I don't know how it was!

    Cool thread btw :)

    °º¤ø,¸ Larsen's Biscuits ¸,ø¤º°
    °º¤ø,¸ Recruiting Now ¸,ø¤º°

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 24, 2019

    At this point its just hopeless. They have no idea how to balance mesmer.
    They just refuse to rework/buff really old weapons that need it. Because ...whiningknowledgable community.
    My preddiction they will straight kill the class(actually they did that alrdy, but more coming) with "trade off" and call it a day until gw dies completely

  • ZeteCommander.4937ZeteCommander.4937 Member ✭✭✭

    Don't forget the staff. Its third skill is not even as useful as before.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 24, 2019

    Staff need rework as well. At least autos could use a rework/update/velocity increase/power damage, something. Chaos armor as 4 skill is a meme.
    Look how many buffs engineer get? How many buffs rifle got since its release? I dont even understand how they can complain that rifle is bad and then I look at greatsword...
    Look at guardian staff skills now? Its amazing now, at least from what I can see. This autos are sick.

  • ZeteCommander.4937ZeteCommander.4937 Member ✭✭✭

    The elite should not have the special ability of the core. Look at the mess now, the core has been broken and the elite has lost its own characteristics.

  • Delofasht.4231Delofasht.4231 Member ✭✭
    edited May 24, 2019

    @Arimir.5864 said:
    Having come from wow, and playing a mesmer, and reading this thread reminds me of how warlocks used to be in wow (mop xpac and before)..

    • Was it useful? nerf it
    • Did it perform? nerf it
    • Did it get you kill in pvp? nerf it
    • Did the community complain about it? nerf it
    • Topping DPS charts? nerf it
    • is mage and rogue getting buffed again? nerf warlocks again, because.
    • did warlocks get a nerf? nerf more of their abilities and traits all at once
    • did other classes have single abilities buffed? Make warlocks abilities weaker so they have to use more of them to do any form of damage... and nerf them a little more whilst any change is happening

    In all honesty, I don't know enough about the intricacies of professions in GW2 to really feel a % difference in any abilities as it stands, but I feel its does pretty decent how it is now... maybe I don't know how it was!

    Cool thread btw :)

    Excellent comparison, pretty much spot on actually. Mesmer is a silly profession, nerfing it has invariably hit the wrong things. The one aspect I did think was a good change was Phantasms, because stacking them and standing around doing nothing while they did all the damage felt boring and stupid.... certainly was easier for my wife to play the profession though. Unfortunately, they did not reduce the CD on phantasms during the change, which I feel they really should have done.

    Weapons are not as bad off as many would suggest here, but every ability is so niche and tough to land that they are unlike any other profession in the game. Literally every other class can mash any button and get results, except Mesmer. This is a known issue, and really the source is a number of our skills being linked to requiring a target, clones and phantasms would best benefited by being able to be used out of combat.

    All the major issues with the profession have been around and will always remain because we function in spite of being a broken profession.

    In short, simple changes, clones and phantasms no longer needing a valid target but assuming whatever is targeted after summon. Targeted abilities made to require no target (AoE, line, or radius instead). This would resolve Mesmer being unlike every other profession, then they could be tuned like others instead of constantly having to be treated in a unique fashion.

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