zerg aura support ele compared to heal scrapper — Guild Wars 2 Forums

zerg aura support ele compared to heal scrapper

I was wondering how the aura heal ele is supporting compared to healscrappers.
It also gives superspeed, a lot of heal and cleanses, but also gives might, fury and aura-bonuses.
The scrapper has less superspeed cooldowns and gives dmg-reduction via bulwark and protection (using overshield+p/s).
In a video I saw aura-ele have something like 6khps. In our guild raids they use monk-rune and get to ~1/3 the cleanse that scrappers do, so with antitoxin it should be comparable.
Though, checking on the boon group uptime in the last raid, I notices that might/fury in a scrapper group is also pretty high due to condition conversion...

What is your impression /experience here?

Comments

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Might and fury are irrelevant because of heralds and firebrands.

    Scrapper provides better cleanses and easier access to heals, while tempest shines with 10 man CC and auras and immobilizes.

    Tempest is just more versatile, with both weapons and traits. Fire spec provides cleanses comparable to scrapper (they arent conversions though), arcane gives boons and more immobs. Then there's worse options, but not terrible ones - earth for stab and prot and air for shocking aura spam through FA and overloading. Staff gives ranged aoe cc and has great synergy with arcane for reviving downeds. D/w has great melee CC+immobs, boon uptime, burst heal and works great with other 3 specializations.

    If you had to choose in squad between scrapper and tempest, scrapper is always gonna be a better choice. However, if you already have a few of them, tempest will be more useful than additional scrapper, especially if you lack chronos.

    Deso's favorite FROG
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    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
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  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What you need to make it a real comparison is giving dagger water a healing that can be used all the time like med kit (i suggest making cone of cold into an endless channel attk) as well as giving ele an condi conversion tool so its clear can flip condis into boons (i suggest making diamond skin into a condi conversion).

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Dediggefedde.4961Dediggefedde.4961 Member ✭✭✭

    @steki.1478
    In a guild setup we try to replace heralds woth renegades, but run into might/fury problems.
    In two groups, one with scrapper, one with aura-ele, both without rev, I checked on the boon uptime. Sadly, heal and superspeed is not logged in arcdps. In the summary the scrapper group had almost double vigor, +50% protection and regeneration. However, it also had slightly more fury uptime. On average the ele group hat 3 more stacks (13 instead of 10) of might in a fight. Since might only needs to be high at bursts, not having 25 stacks on average is okay. However, I expected more boon output...

    At the moment we try to get 2-3 scrappers for 5 groups and all groups without scrappers get aura tempests...

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dediggefedde.4961 said:
    @steki.1478
    In a guild setup we try to replace heralds woth renegades, but run into might/fury problems.
    In two groups, one with scrapper, one with aura-ele, both without rev, I checked on the boon uptime. Sadly, heal and superspeed is not logged in arcdps. In the summary the scrapper group had almost double vigor, +50% protection and regeneration. However, it also had slightly more fury uptime. On average the ele group hat 3 more stacks (13 instead of 10) of might in a fight. Since might only needs to be high at bursts, not having 25 stacks on average is okay. However, I expected more boon output...

    At the moment we try to get 2-3 scrappers for 5 groups and all groups without scrappers get aura tempests...

    You never replace heralds in parties. Constant boon spam as well as permanent fury and 10+ might makes it much stronger than any supportive skill that shares might (constant might is a lot stronger than instant might application on bigger cooldown). You can also get additional superspeed from elite skill. Renegade's only purpose is alacrity which you can get from a few healing renegades (or 2nd dps along with herald).

    A lot of skills have low cooldown, so having high might during whole fight is always beneficial, that's one of the reasons why stacking heralds is very strong.

    You can see heal in personal stats/skills windows. Problem with vigor on tempest is trait choice - you either take 10 man shouts or vigor on aura on the other side you can either take vigor on water attune, aura on overload or aoe stun break. Protection is solved with earth/arcane spec and warhorn.

    While boon output might be better on scrapper, dont forget that tempest supports 10 people with a lot of skills.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2019

    Yeah MH dagger water could be more like ... healing, than no purpose. But Tempest/elem should not be a FB or scrapper bis with might, stab or condi conversion or green number fart; tempest should get its own buff to share to 5 or 10 people.
    Auras/shouts are meh; the shocking one is alright for the group but it needs 2 traits to share it (3 if you play fresh air), but it lacks something to be detterent, may be increase duration / low CD of shouts, or add a real "active" (not on hit) buff, like dmg buff, ferocity buff, alacrity, or 15~20% protection against physical/condition dmg instead of 10%, or just, let us Transmute auras for all auras we apply, meaning to allies.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:
    Yeah MH dagger water could be more like ... healing, than no purpose. But Tempest/elem should not be a FB or scrapper bis with might, stab or condi conversion or green number fart; tempest should get its own buff to share to 5 or 10 people.
    Auras/shouts are meh; the shocking one is alright for the group but it needs 2 traits to share it (3 if you play fresh air), but it lacks something to be detterent, may be increase duration / low CD of shouts, or add a real "active" (not on hit) buff, like dmg buff, ferocity buff, alacrity, or 15~20% protection against physical/condition dmg instead of 10%, or just, let us Transmute auras for all auras we apply, meaning to allies.

    The thing is only staff realy has healing out put destorying any hope of tempest getting real use out of WH for healing on the healing class of tempest.

    So the thing is ele is the example why that mind set dose not work for gw2. Ele was the end all be all protection fury class of gw2. Tempest for a time was the end all be all healing class as well. After massive update to other classes ele lose this and is out shined by other classes because of this. Scraper was not a support class it was a tankly cc bruser it was pushed into support as that was the only use it could fill. This was made much stronger then eng core was updated with med kit pushing its healing to being the best in the game.
    So its a real question why not give tempest real healing why not give ele core real condi clear conversion and why not give tempest/ele real stab support seeing how every thing both scraper and FB have now has been taken away from ele/tempest.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭

    I would pick Scrapper over Tempest any time and any day. However, if you already have the FB and the Scrapper, Tempest would be favorable afterwards.

    Scrapper has a better cleansing potential (also it's not just cleansing), more tanky, stealth, bubble, combo fields > instant shout, etc.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:
    Yeah MH dagger water could be more like ... healing, than no purpose. But Tempest/elem should not be a FB or scrapper bis with might, stab or condi conversion or green number fart; tempest should get its own buff to share to 5 or 10 people.
    Auras/shouts are meh; the shocking one is alright for the group but it needs 2 traits to share it (3 if you play fresh air), but it lacks something to be detterent, may be increase duration / low CD of shouts, or add a real "active" (not on hit) buff, like dmg buff, ferocity buff, alacrity, or 15~20% protection against physical/condition dmg instead of 10%, or just, let us Transmute auras for all auras we apply, meaning to allies.

    The thing is only staff realy has healing out put destorying any hope of tempest getting real use out of WH for healing on the healing class of tempest.

    So the thing is ele is the example why that mind set dose not work for gw2. Ele was the end all be all protection fury class of gw2. Tempest for a time was the end all be all healing class as well. After massive update to other classes ele lose this and is out shined by other classes because of this. Scraper was not a support class it was a tankly cc bruser it was pushed into support as that was the only use it could fill. This was made much stronger then eng core was updated with med kit pushing its healing to being the best in the game.
    So its a real question why not give tempest real healing why not give ele core real condi clear conversion and why not give tempest/ele real stab support seeing how every thing both scraper and FB have now has been taken away from ele/tempest.

    Then people will complain Engie or FB isn't meta/accepted anymore because tempest do better.
    Make again Ele/tempest a strong healer and cleanser or stab/might generator will just *displace an other spec, and complaints will repeat until and after next balance. Tempest could be so much more. Auras are just a medium for some already loop boons and heals, but are nearly useless /acute enough, why can't it be better ? Increase effects, make transmute work for all auras applied and effective on shouts, add better buff, rarer boons rather than regular 4sec regen with 30sec cd.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    if you're wanting to switch out herald, for tempest you could drop fire for air. you lose some cleanse, but gain a ton more damage, fury + swiftness on auras, and shocking aura spam.
    you could also run shoutbreaker.

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:
    Yeah MH dagger water could be more like ... healing, than no purpose. But Tempest/elem should not be a FB or scrapper bis with might, stab or condi conversion or green number fart; tempest should get its own buff to share to 5 or 10 people.
    Auras/shouts are meh; the shocking one is alright for the group but it needs 2 traits to share it (3 if you play fresh air), but it lacks something to be detterent, may be increase duration / low CD of shouts, or add a real "active" (not on hit) buff, like dmg buff, ferocity buff, alacrity, or 15~20% protection against physical/condition dmg instead of 10%, or just, let us Transmute auras for all auras we apply, meaning to allies.

    The thing is only staff realy has healing out put destorying any hope of tempest getting real use out of WH for healing on the healing class of tempest.

    So the thing is ele is the example why that mind set dose not work for gw2. Ele was the end all be all protection fury class of gw2. Tempest for a time was the end all be all healing class as well. After massive update to other classes ele lose this and is out shined by other classes because of this. Scraper was not a support class it was a tankly cc bruser it was pushed into support as that was the only use it could fill. This was made much stronger then eng core was updated with med kit pushing its healing to being the best in the game.
    So its a real question why not give tempest real healing why not give ele core real condi clear conversion and why not give tempest/ele real stab support seeing how every thing both scraper and FB have now has been taken away from ele/tempest.

    Then people will complain Engie or FB isn't meta/accepted anymore because tempest do better.
    Make again Ele/tempest a strong healer and cleanser or stab/might generator will just *displace an other spec, and complaints will repeat until and after next balance. Tempest could be so much more. Auras are just a medium for some already loop boons and heals, but are nearly useless /acute enough, why can't it be better ? Increase effects, make transmute work for all auras applied and effective on shouts, add better buff, rarer boons rather than regular 4sec regen with 30sec cd.

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:
    Yeah MH dagger water could be more like ... healing, than no purpose. But Tempest/elem should not be a FB or scrapper bis with might, stab or condi conversion or green number fart; tempest should get its own buff to share to 5 or 10 people.
    Auras/shouts are meh; the shocking one is alright for the group but it needs 2 traits to share it (3 if you play fresh air), but it lacks something to be detterent, may be increase duration / low CD of shouts, or add a real "active" (not on hit) buff, like dmg buff, ferocity buff, alacrity, or 15~20% protection against physical/condition dmg instead of 10%, or just, let us Transmute auras for all auras we apply, meaning to allies.

    The thing is only staff realy has healing out put destorying any hope of tempest getting real use out of WH for healing on the healing class of tempest.

    So the thing is ele is the example why that mind set dose not work for gw2. Ele was the end all be all protection fury class of gw2. Tempest for a time was the end all be all healing class as well. After massive update to other classes ele lose this and is out shined by other classes because of this. Scraper was not a support class it was a tankly cc bruser it was pushed into support as that was the only use it could fill. This was made much stronger then eng core was updated with med kit pushing its healing to being the best in the game.
    So its a real question why not give tempest real healing why not give ele core real condi clear conversion and why not give tempest/ele real stab support seeing how every thing both scraper and FB have now has been taken away from ele/tempest.

    Then people will complain Engie or FB isn't meta/accepted anymore because tempest do better.
    Make again Ele/tempest a strong healer and cleanser or stab/might generator will just *displace an other spec, and complaints will repeat until and after next balance. Tempest could be so much more. Auras are just a medium for some already loop boons and heals, but are nearly useless /acute enough, why can't it be better ? Increase effects, make transmute work for all auras applied and effective on shouts, add better buff, rarer boons rather than regular 4sec regen with 30sec cd.

    FB has a lot more then just stab and has room for being a real dps class. Giving ele stab on the same level as they gave scraper would not brake the game as they already did it with scraper and we dont use scraper for the stab it gives out.

    Scraper comes with stealth and counter stealth as well as being much more tankly and much much more condi clear. Giving tempest condi conversion much like eng core has would not brake the scraper class at all.

    Auras are mostly bad its the added effect that aura bring that often is the reason why you use them healing clear and boons. The thing is aura are not an ele only thing scraper has the ability to out put the strongest aura in the game frost aura with blasting frost fields. Over time other classes WILL get aura just like ele and its silly to even try to hold on to them as an ele only thing because they come from fields and combos.

    Cone heals are better then aoe center of you heals. Transmute have some what nerfed auras being usable during stun / cc and they realty only have one trate that works with them and often will eat the aura before you get good use out of it.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2019

    @Dediggefedde.4961 said:
    I was wondering how the aura heal ele is supporting compared to healscrappers.
    It also gives superspeed, a lot of heal and cleanses, but also gives might, fury and aura-bonuses.
    The scrapper has less superspeed cooldowns and gives dmg-reduction via bulwark and protection (using overshield+p/s).
    In a video I saw aura-ele have something like 6khps. In our guild raids they use monk-rune and get to ~1/3 the cleanse that scrappers do, so with antitoxin it should be comparable.
    Though, checking on the boon group uptime in the last raid, I notices that might/fury in a scrapper group is also pretty high due to condition conversion...

    What is your impression /experience here?

    I’ve been able to hit 10k on ele...probably more since I wasn’t even BIS or stacking modifiers at the time.

    Wash the pain away can heal for nearly 15k health on 10 people...which is massive heals in comparison to anything I’ve seen any other healer able to pull off. Soothing mist sticking for 1k per tick (maximum 15 ticks going at a time) on top of stacking it wil overloads and shouts makes for excellent heals during pushes and pressures...great for people running sanctuary runes that turn any extra heals into barriers.

    As for boons...it’s mediocre....one could go water + fire and antitoxin for big condi cleanses on shouts but condos are cleansed so fast that it’s almost unnecessary.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:
    snips

    cone heals are the worst, and please stop misspelling scrapper.

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    snips

    cone heals are the worst, and please stop misspelling scrapper.

    Cone heals are better realty cone supports are better as you can control who gets hits better then having the heal just happen in a 600 aoe aroned you. I am spelling scraper right it just means more when i say it this way vs that your asking for.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    snips

    cone heals are the worst, and please stop misspelling scrapper.

    Cone heals are better realty cone supports are better as you can control who gets hits better then having the heal just happen in a 600 aoe aroned you. I am spelling scraper right it just means more when i say it this way vs that your asking for.

    yeah I just love having to stop moving forward to turn around and cone heal ppl when im on guard.

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    snips

    cone heals are the worst, and please stop misspelling scrapper.

    Cone heals are better realty cone supports are better as you can control who gets hits better then having the heal just happen in a 600 aoe aroned you. I am spelling scraper right it just means more when i say it this way vs that your asking for.

    yeah I just love having to stop moving forward to turn around and cone heal ppl when im on guard.

    Is it that hard to turn vs not being able to hit some one because your 5 target cap is being eaten up by your own personal pt?

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 31, 2019

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    snips

    cone heals are the worst, and please stop misspelling scrapper.

    Cone heals are better realty cone supports are better as you can control who gets hits better then having the heal just happen in a 600 aoe aroned you. I am spelling scraper right it just means more when i say it this way vs that your asking for.

    yeah I just love having to stop moving forward to turn around and cone heal ppl when im on guard.

    Is it that hard to turn vs not being able to hit some one because your 5 target cap is being eaten up by your own personal pt?

    what? have you ever tried to turn around while rushing? why would you want to heal outside your own party? what happens when your party is spread out?

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    snips

    cone heals are the worst, and please stop misspelling scrapper.

    Cone heals are better realty cone supports are better as you can control who gets hits better then having the heal just happen in a 600 aoe aroned you. I am spelling scraper right it just means more when i say it this way vs that your asking for.

    yeah I just love having to stop moving forward to turn around and cone heal ppl when im on guard.

    Is it that hard to turn vs not being able to hit some one because your 5 target cap is being eaten up by your own personal pt?

    what? have you ever tried to turn around while rushing? why would you want to heal outside your own party? what happens when your party is spread out?

    Yes its not that hard. I do it all the time on a scraper to great effect and i would love to see ele active support skills work this way.

    So the problem with ele support is that its center on the ele it self or its an projectile that can be counter. Ele will always have a problem contorting who its hits with its support because of this and in some ways ele staff 1 water is the main healing in the game that can be counter. If it was a cone attk it would be a much better skill.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Yes its not that hard. I do it all the time on a scraper to great effect and i would love to see ele active support skills work this way.

    So the problem with ele support is that its center on the ele it self or its an projectile that can be counter. Ele will always have a problem contorting who its hits with its support because of this and in some ways ele staff 1 water is the main healing in the game that can be counter. If it was a cone attk it would be a much better skill.

    so I guess if you want to heal someone in one direction, and there is another person in the opposite direction, then one of them is screwed. sounds good to me.

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Yes its not that hard. I do it all the time on a scraper to great effect and i would love to see ele active support skills work this way.

    So the problem with ele support is that its center on the ele it self or its an projectile that can be counter. Ele will always have a problem contorting who its hits with its support because of this and in some ways ele staff 1 water is the main healing in the game that can be counter. If it was a cone attk it would be a much better skill.

    so I guess if you want to heal someone in one direction, and there is another person in the opposite direction, then one of them is screwed. sounds good to me.

    Its about passive healing vs active force healing. Its good to have both on some level but if every thing you have is passive healing your going to seem like your healing for a lot but realty your just getting numbers at the smallest dmg. GW2 is a type of game where burst dmg is the main means of death so that passive healing is not as usefully as the ppl with burst dmg can chose where there dmg is going much better then you can chose your support.

    Scraper has the best passive and active healing in the game. The same could be said for support effect boons and clears. Ele has too much passive healing as well as passive support and what active healing / support it has is center on the ele it self so its effect become a passive healing / support but with a slight boost and its only active healing is on such a long cd (cone of cold) that its not worth it or is hard counter by projectile hate (water 1 staff and water 5 WH and maybe water air staff 3 weaver).

    This is all talking about healing mostly if we get into super speed support scraper wins out if we get into condi flipping scraper wins out if we get into raw cleaning scraper wins out if we get into boon support scraper wins out. At every point of the game but say for one scraper wins out (root support is better on ele BUT it often is hard counter by scraper as it become reiscanse from any of its clears making it more harmfull to put on the other team then the abitly to root).

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 31, 2019

    @Jski.6180 said:
    snips

    none of this has to do with the topic on hand.
    also lets not forget about elevation. I think some cone heals will fail if on stairs or steep inclines.

    edit
    are you saying aoe heals are passive and cone are active? I don't know where this came from.

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    snips

    none of this has to do with the topic on hand.
    also lets not forget about elevation. I think some cone heals will fail if on stairs or steep inclines.

    edit
    are you saying aoe heals are passive and cone are active? I don't know where this came from.

    This is not talking about how tempest compares to scraper?

    The ideal i am talking about passive vs active healing / support is any time the game chose your targets for you it is passive support every time you chose or have some way to influences the games chose is active. This game is not made with healing in mind it was added in with HoT so there a real lack of target team mates for skills.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    snips

    none of this has to do with the topic on hand.
    also lets not forget about elevation. I think some cone heals will fail if on stairs or steep inclines.

    edit
    are you saying aoe heals are passive and cone are active? I don't know where this came from.

    This is not talking about how tempest compares to scraper?

    The ideal i am talking about passive vs active healing / support is any time the game chose your targets for you it is passive support every time you chose or have some way to influences the games chose is active. This game is not made with healing in mind it was added in with HoT so there a real lack of target team mates for skills.

    You choose targets by being with them in the group. And that's not passive heal, passive heal is heal that procs without you doing anything.

    It's amazing how you say scrapper is active because it can control its heals better (it barely has range on its active heals), when majority of its heals come from passive heal sharing trait.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    snips

    none of this has to do with the topic on hand.
    also lets not forget about elevation. I think some cone heals will fail if on stairs or steep inclines.

    edit
    are you saying aoe heals are passive and cone are active? I don't know where this came from.

    This is not talking about how tempest compares to scraper?

    The ideal i am talking about passive vs active healing / support is any time the game chose your targets for you it is passive support every time you chose or have some way to influences the games chose is active. This game is not made with healing in mind it was added in with HoT so there a real lack of target team mates for skills.

    You choose targets by being with them in the group. And that's not passive heal, passive heal is heal that procs without you doing anything.

    It's amazing how you say scrapper is active because it can control its heals better (it barely has range on its active heals), when majority of its heals come from passive heal sharing trait.

    So do you jump from group to group to support different ppl mid fight? That is about as non active targeting or "passive healing" as can be.

    Scrapers heal come from its med kit so realty its just eng that giving scraper most of its healing power. As an elite spec it is a pure passive healing class but it was a tankly spec not realty made for healing.

    The ideal that cone healing is the equivalent of targeting healing / support there are ground target effects as well but they are often on massive cd signet of water (all the tempest use that lol). Eng med kit is one of the best tools for this type of support ele has something like that in staff water 1 but it can be blocked by any numbers of effect one being simply having the other team get in the way of the attk it self.

    Eng is the best support in gw2 for non stab support (all though eng has some stab support better then what ele has) FB is the stab support the only thing that tempest has going for it is the root and auras effect all witch are far weaker due to eng and FB support. Your roots become resistance your chill become alacrity your stuns never trigger even your burn become blocks.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:

    So do you jump from group to group to support different ppl mid fight? That is about as non active targeting or "passive healing" as can be.

    You do the same thing like on scrapper, you get close to them. Wash the pain away can fully heal almost anyone and it's relatively small aoe.

    Scrapers heal come from its med kit so realty its just eng that giving scraper most of its healing power. As an elite spec it is a pure passive healing class but it was a tankly spec not realty made for healing.

    The ideal that cone healing is the equivalent of targeting healing / support there are ground target effects as well but they are often on massive cd signet of water (all the tempest use that lol). Eng med kit is one of the best tools for this type of support ele has something like that in staff water 1 but it can be blocked by any numbers of effect one being simply having the other team get in the way of the attk it self.

    Engi mostly heals with med kit (melee), MDF (mid range) and med pack drop (long range). Ele mostly heals with WtPA, healing ripple (melee) and auras+soothing mist (mid/long range); rest depends on weapon. With engi you have better control over melee sustain because that's where majority of your heals are, with ele you dominate mid/long range with passive heals while your more active ones are melee. You dont rely on water autos because you dont even need them most of the time and if you do, you wouldnt be in the middle of the blob using staff to begin with, d/wh is just as viable option and has melee heal options, strong burst heal and better boon uptime.

    Eng is the best support in gw2 for non stab support (all though eng has some stab support better then what ele has) FB is the stab support the only thing that tempest has going for it is the root and auras effect all witch are far weaker due to eng and FB support. Your roots become resistance your chill become alacrity your stuns never trigger even your burn become blocks.

    Engi has best support mostly because of stealth, light fields and especially massive condi conversion. Bulwark gyro tool belt is also quite strong skill. Ele and rev arent meta because they dont provide any significant utility/boons that's better than mentioned ones, but they can easily outheal scrapper simply because they have bigger aoe coverage and target cap with their heals, both passive and active ones.

    With that being said, tempest is still quite popular support because it provides a lot of CC, frost aura is additional damage reduction and it has 10 man heals and good amount of protection from arcane/earth traits, staff 3/wh 4, aftershock (although it's usually unnecessary) and earth overload, most of them being shared to 10 people. Not to mention rebound which can easily prevent your teammates to go down in the first seconds of fight (or soak up additional aoes so better players dont have to).

    Dont forget that frost aura has pretty high range (if it's even limited) so it can trigger chill on people who are far away from cleanses. It's most useful in melee clashes where it serves as additional condi spam in corrupt fields/warrior bubbles making it hard to utilize it as alacrity. You barely even have burns unless you're playing fire cleanse tempest (which is generally better with d/w), but that's not needed when you have scrappers to convert condies.

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  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    So do you jump from group to group to support different ppl mid fight? That is about as non active targeting or "passive healing" as can be.

    You do the same thing like on scrapper, you get close to them. Wash the pain away can fully heal almost anyone and it's relatively small aoe.

    Scraper has cone effects and at self effects so yes scraper is a better support becuse this alone all though there are many more effects that makes scraper far better then tempest.

    Scrapers heal come from its med kit so realty its just eng that giving scraper most of its healing power. As an elite spec it is a pure passive healing class but it was a tankly spec not realty made for healing.

    The ideal that cone healing is the equivalent of targeting healing / support there are ground target effects as well but they are often on massive cd signet of water (all the tempest use that lol). Eng med kit is one of the best tools for this type of support ele has something like that in staff water 1 but it can be blocked by any numbers of effect one being simply having the other team get in the way of the attk it self.

    Engi mostly heals with med kit (melee), MDF (mid range) and med pack drop (long range). Ele mostly heals with WtPA, healing ripple (melee) and auras+soothing mist (mid/long range); rest depends on weapon. With engi you have better control over melee sustain because that's where majority of your heals are, with ele you dominate mid/long range with passive heals while your more active ones are melee. You dont rely on water autos because you dont even need them most of the time and if you do, you wouldnt be in the middle of the blob using staff to begin with, d/wh is just as viable option and has melee heal options, strong burst heal and better boon uptime.

    600 ranged is not melee. Still mostly cone heals even a grond clear that combos into a chosen blast for better contorl over where that support is going.

    Eng is the best support in gw2 for non stab support (all though eng has some stab support better then what ele has) FB is the stab support the only thing that tempest has going for it is the root and auras effect all witch are far weaker due to eng and FB support. Your roots become resistance your chill become alacrity your stuns never trigger even your burn become blocks.

    Engi has best support mostly because of stealth, light fields and especially massive condi conversion. Bulwark gyro tool belt is also quite strong skill. Ele and rev arent meta because they dont provide any significant utility/boons that's better than mentioned ones, but they can easily outheal scrapper simply because they have bigger aoe coverage and target cap with their heals, both passive and active ones.

    With that being said, tempest is still quite popular support because it provides a lot of CC, frost aura is additional damage reduction and it has 10 man heals and good amount of protection from arcane/earth traits, staff 3/wh 4, aftershock (although it's usually unnecessary) and earth overload, most of them being shared to 10 people. Not to mention rebound which can easily prevent your teammates to go down in the first seconds of fight (or soak up additional aoes so better players dont have to).

    Dont forget that frost aura has pretty high range (if it's even limited) so it can trigger chill on people who are far away from cleanses. It's most useful in melee clashes where it serves as additional condi spam in corrupt fields/warrior bubbles making it hard to utilize it as alacrity. You barely even have burns unless you're playing fire cleanse tempest (which is generally better with d/w), but that's not needed when you have scrappers to convert condies.

    Eng a better healer due to a LOT of things.

    Tempest has roots and soft cc that is hard conter by eng into very hard to deal with boons.

    Eng has the ability to put out frost aura....

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Dediggefedde.4961Dediggefedde.4961 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:
    I am spelling scraper right it just means more when I say it this way vs that your asking for.

    To scrap -> scrapping is actually correct since the background is some scrapping specialized Charr people if I remember lore correctly... basically a recycling facility.
    To scrape -> scraping is more like scratching something off... sometimes I feel like I scrape people off the ground with the function gyro, but that's mostly irrelevant to lore and name.

    That being said, I don't really care how you spell it, so have fun. ^^

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dediggefedde.4961 said:
    To scrap -> scrapping is actually correct since the background is some scrapping specialized Charr people if I remember lore correctly... basically a recycling facility.
    To scrape -> scraping is more like scratching something off... sometimes I feel like I scrape people off the ground with the function gyro, but that's mostly irrelevant to lore and name.

    That being said, I don't really care how you spell it, so have fun. ^^

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  • Noha.3749Noha.3749 Member ✭✭✭

    What makes Scrapper great is condiconversion, every tiny little condi gets converted into a boon + reg, which means that:
    1. Enemies like scourges gets denied alot of "free chip damage", and converting a condi not only turns into a boon, it also applies regeneration (this is what bumps scrappers up to absurd heals/sec in longer fights, reaching heights of 10-14k healing/sec if everything clicks)
    2. Scourges will have more trouble to corrupt boons the more boons are on the targets, all the small condis that got converted are now acting as amassed "coverboons".

    Essentially Scrappers will thrive as long as the enemy got some Scourges or other damagedealers which applies condis along with its damage.

    Also on a previous comment about Scrappers lacking range for their heals?
    Wth are you talking about?
    600range medkit #1, no CD, 900 Range Elixir Gun #5, Medkit F1 has about 450 range which is plenty considering its a burst heal on top of the tag.
    etc. etc. i can continue listing examples where Scrappers shine at ranged fights. Also Hammer 5 > Static Discharge
    And why would you need ranged heals when ur supposed to sit on tag...?

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Noha.3749 said:
    What makes Scrapper great is condiconversion, every tiny little condi gets converted into a boon + reg, which means that:
    1. Enemies like scourges gets denied alot of "free chip damage", and converting a condi not only turns into a boon, it also applies regeneration (this is what bumps scrappers up to absurd heals/sec in longer fights, reaching heights of 10-14k healing/sec if everything clicks)
    2. Scourges will have more trouble to corrupt boons the more boons are on the targets, all the small condis that got converted are now acting as amassed "coverboons".

    Essentially Scrappers will thrive as long as the enemy got some Scourges or other damagedealers which applies condis along with its damage.

    Also on a previous comment about Scrappers lacking range for their heals?
    Wth are you talking about?
    600range medkit #1, no CD, 900 Range Elixir Gun #5, Medkit F1 has about 450 range which is plenty considering its a burst heal on top of the tag.
    etc. etc. i can continue listing examples where Scrappers shine at ranged fights. Also Hammer 5 > Static Discharge
    And why would you need ranged heals when ur supposed to sit on tag...?

    Not only reg and a boon flip but your also healing ppl when you clear there condis (you get boon from the clear and you heal your self from the boon and % of the heal hits 5 targets). Its a very nice combo to build for sadly only eng has this loop and at best ele has its reg clear loop that realty amounts to nothing when you know eng has clears on protection making its pure clear loop soo much stronger (if you give up the healing part of the loop).

    We are also leaving out the barrier effects on scraper doing more dmg and taking less dmg when under the effect of barrier (more dmg realty is pointless on the healing build but every bit adds up). A class that got barrier as an after though makes better use of it then the class made with barrier in mind weaver. All though its tempest whom we are talking about here at the best thing to say about staying power is the +7% protection power that tempest get was added to core eng so sadly eng with its build in higher hp and def gets just as many boon boots of protection as the class who core build and ideal of "this boon is going to keep me alive" was simply handed to another class.

    Its all very frustrating and show just how badly balancing is for the ele class.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

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