Acheron.1580

I thought the scroll bar looked tight enough for exactly 6. I hope that you are right in this regard. Looked like a 2/2/2 split to me. If you are WvW and opt out of PvE and PvP you won't have to do that content. Earlier in the thread I linked a response from Rubi that showed an example of the box where you pick the mode(s) you want.

Weekly resets are monday, patches are tuesday, same day the expansion drops (in my neck of the world). We will probably not get to pick our preferred selection for the first week. (might change up daily quests for the following days but might lock in weekly or special). So yea, a lot like how it is right now for the first week maybe. Not a problem, just a concern. I personally wouldn't want to do obsidian sanctum.

I just assumed it represented the 40 AA but that's an interesting thought, a chest AND the 40 AA.

Yup very well could be. We will find out soon.

I don't think there will be, but I mostly wanted the clovers from it (others the laurels) so we will get something similar-ish? But no not exactly what we used to get. As far as I know, maybe we'll be surprised. As for the bonus gold increase I sort of expect that to just disappear, but knowing that it only affects drops from mobs and nothing that gives gold in other ways it's a really weak bonus. That said, better than nothing so I can get behind why people would be upset about it leaving.

I've never had a scenario where that would happen so that's also something new to me. My understanding is the black lion requisitions work the same way when your mail is full.

I'm going to just miss my chest too. 🙃 Such is life, even if they had announced the change earlier it's not like there was any way I could have sped up my reward track. On the plus side with the new system, you'll be able to choose it first rather than last (or whatever equivalent replaces it)

Always find a way around a wall yea? And I thought about automated logins too, I don't think it would be obviously identifiable as a bot when you basically don't move and just need to automate a click in a very specific corner.

Ah gotcha, yes I didn't catch that.

I still find it to be something that can be worked around. Say it takes the 15 seconds to log in, but you can only do 20 in a row before it locks you out for say an hour. Do your 19 at the start, play your 20th for your time, do your last 20 at the end. I genuinely do not know how it works, or that there even was a system in place for something like that. Probably designed to make it less convenience for people doing it as a deterrent. With some clever multiboxing (since it apparently is allowed anyways), you could be playing and logging into accounts at the same time in a rotation as well. I just don't think the time factor is convincing me personally that it's a hardship.

Sorry, read that as "people don't bother logging in to 20, 40, 100 accounts because it's work", as an argument for why people wouldn't have 40 accounts As I mentioned I have no issue with people playing the game to make gold. There are semantics where "If I get 2 gold doing daily stuff and 2 gold just logging in whats the difference", but one I'd say was intended as a reward, the other was intended as an incentive to log in every day and is being abused when it's the only thing you use the account for. I don't consider it fair or unfair. Like I said you getting a legendary doesn't impact my play at all.

So your argument is that because it takes 30 mins it's a hardship? ~60 gold for 30 mins of "work" and you think that's somehow unfair? If you did why would you do it? Does it change the fact you are getting enough gold for a legendary per month from 30 mins a day without even playing the game? It also doesn't explain how something like that isn't an exploit. I actually don't know where you were going with this defense. If your defense is once again "what we were doing, we were doing for the good of the economy" then again I say that's bull, you were doing it for yourself. Will the economy be affected after this? Probably. But we aren't sure in what direction. If you are suggesting I'll be sorry when the exploits dry up and everything is too expensive, we will just have to see. Again, it IS being changed, so saying Anet would do something if they thought it was a problem; they are doing something.

Good point. So yes I'd say it's an exploit based on the idea that you aren't playing the game, there is no effort, only reward. Do I care about it? Not really, because between flying mounts and mesmers there's nothing you can do about it. Except the jade runestone farm, where you can simply add checkpoints to it like the first zone has for their jumping puzzle. If the gem sales are impacted by the exploit, then it does have everything to do with it.

15 seconds per log in, 30 at best if your computer is a potato, boo-hoo 10-20 mins.

Pretty sure someone said (in this thread or elsewhere) that might teapot had 40 accounts and it generated 2000 gold per month for him. So that would imply that it did / can / does happen.

Id agree with that sentiment but probably not going to happen. Wizard is a SotO only relic and won't be in the choice for the relic box on release, aside from the fact that I think it was also the example they used of relics unlocking after doing certain story based ... things. From my understanding after that any of your characters can buy it from a vendor without having to do it again. How stuff like this is going to impact pvp is going to be a nightmare I think (even if it's just owning SotO vs not giving more relics to choose from). Edit: Just for clarification I know that pvp gets their gear in very different ways, and probably will here as well, but if there is a particularly strong relic (I think wizard could be very well utilized here) that people without SotO won't have access to it'll create a divide in terms of power and an argument for it being / feeling p2w.

Paying $150 per month for a legendary vs paying a one time $400 for a legendary a month with no costs going forward is pretty different.

I agree with the sentiment behind the passive income issue, the only one that is a serious issue imo is the jade runestone which they could fix without impacting all the other ones. The problem is that with a flying mount you can already skip 70-85% of the jumping puzzles already so it feels unnecessary to change it. If people park alts for the sake of convenience it doesn't bother me just because the rewards from those chests are so bad you probably won't get a return on the character slot.

Going to try to answer everything, though it's going to be a tight all in one. Starting with Will I be excited/happy/wringing my hands menacingly if/when they change mechanics that I (personally) consider to be an exploit? No. I don't care. The number of legendaries you get doesn't change the number I have or will get. The amount of gold you get doesn't change the amount I have or will get. I don't have anything personal against people who are "gaming the system". I don't care about afk farmers because they don't impact me personally. There is argument that yes they are putting more resources out there into the TP which will impact the prices, but on a personal level I'm not bothered by it. So why bother saying it's an exploit? Because it reads like an exploit. If Anet added a $400 black lion trade post item that was "legendary of the month club" where you got a legendary every month for doing nothing but giving them money, I think the community would have very strong opinions on it. Just because the opportunity exists to do it outside that example makes it absurd to me, and there's no way that could be construed as the intended use of that system. Which just by definition would make it an exploit. Whether you do it "a little" or a "a lot", it is still using the system for personal gain. Why get heated up about it? I took a stance on the subject and I will defend it. Honestly by defending it I kept thinking more and more that it just sounded shady. That's a personal viewpoint. Why bring it up at all? I honestly hadn't even known about it before this post (just in terms of HOW MUCH GOLD it could generate for nothing), but when people ask why Anet is changing the system, it to me seems like the most likely reason. I was giving an opinion that it was probably a factor. Do I think jumping puzzle alts are an exploit? Mostly no, if you parked an alt at every single jumping puzzle I'd call that convenience but I also am pretty certain you'd never get a return on the amount paid to unlock those characters. There is one exception, the jade runestone, because it was already something that got closed up by Anet and is still getting ~1 gold for nothing. Whether or not it is an exploit is again personal viewpoint. It is by and large Anet's fault for not closing it off, since they already had a JP in the first zone that also awards runestones but has a checkpoint system to prevent abuse. They got sloppy. Do I think multiboxing is an exploit? I don't care for it but if there are rules around it then again, by definition, it isn't. I know this was meant just to be snarky but I'll answer it honestly anyways. The "strongest" would imply the most in the shortest amount of time so yea, straight up purchasing and converting would make it the strongest. The best would be the current system being discussed, because it generates gold far beyond what you paid as long as you can keep it going forward into the future. Most bang for the buck as it were. Is buying gold from Anet an exploit? No. It is a system put in place and used exactly as they intended it to be. I feel the majority of that post is actually what's already being discussed, and again me suggesting Anet's change could be because this feels like an exploit (my opinion on why it's being changed), but this is also just factually wrong. The system was introduced in 2015, it hasn't been in the game since forever and replaced an old system for getting the exact same rewards. Now the system is changing again (pray they do not alter it further). Well played, I had to think about it for a minute. You are correct, if we are both getting an infinite amount of money then it's arguably the same. But back to my example of asking "Where is my million dollars?" The answer for me is on the millionth day, the answer for you with 20 accounts is the 50,000th day. It is not equivalent. We cannot ask when we have our infinity moneys (because such a concept is ridiculous), but we can point to a specific point in time and ask how much our infinite income has generated for us. So yes I stand by it is a false equivalency. If universal basic income was a thing, and everyone got $1000 a month, but you gamed the system to get it 20 times over, it would be considered fraud. Not an exact parallel (as point out Anet has said this isn't illegal) but I think you get my point. "But the money I made I put back into the economy so I'm doing a good thing!" No. Flat out no, you are justifying personal gain by saying that it is helping everyone, but at the end of the day you did it for yourself and nobody else. Just because you bought a legendary with your ill gotten gains (don't focus on the wording, it's just how I could phrase it), does not absolve it from being an exploit. It has all the energy of "It's not an exploit, but if it was, not saying it is, I'm doing good with it so it shouldn't count". But then why didn't Anet....? I don't work for Anet. I never said I did, nor did I say I represent them. But I can take an educated guess. Sorry if I misrepresented myself. The only question out of those I can answer with near certainty is why doesn't Anet straight up say it's an exploit or alternatively why won't they say if this is the reason they are changing the system? The answer is they have no gain from doing so. If they condemn your actions now then they highlight that they condoned it before, people who feel jilted by not being able to get in on the exploit are mad, people who are suddenly stripped of it when they were told it was ok are mad. Lose/lose. If they say they are changing the system specifically for this reason then again they are personally calling out a group of people and it becomes a personal attack, which will make more people mad. Or they can say nothing at all about their reasons for it. Now it is a mystery, there is no target, it could be something completely unrelated (and honestly very well could be, again even if I made assumptions on why they are changing it I can't 100% know). In closing / tldr If all of these alt accounts did the 3 daily quests and got 2 gold each (about the equivalent of the gold/hour (day) that the daily login bonus gets) I wouldn't consider it an exploit. I guess the line in the sand for me is effort. Someone who plays for 5-15 mins a day to make a profit is simply playing the game, as intended, and games reward effort. Why I don't see the login bonuses (or the jade runestone farm) the same way is because there is no game, and no effort, just reward. That people are using the system make sense to me, I don't harbor ill will towards the people doing it, I would never use it though because it sounds like an exploit just begging to be closed off. But I am unlikely to change my opinion that is an exploit because the demonstration of what the system does at an extreme case. Even if you don't use it in that capacity, the ability to do so still exists.

Well you need 10 seconds per account per day (again, sort of generous, depends on how slow your computer is), and the more accounts you have the fast you accumulate it, but you can get by with 1, 2 or 20 and for each account it costs you 10 seconds. The fact is it's still money for nothing. You don't need infinite accounts or time. Once again, please tell me how putting in 10 seconds a day entitles you to the strongest gold farm in the game without putting in any effort. Because you paid real money? I looked it up and the cheapest I could do an account upgrade for right now was about $8 on a third party key selling site, which once again doesn't even support Anet.

Yea I read it that way too, but I do believe it's actually 3 relics of your choice per toon above 60 after Rubi talked about it. Which I honestly can't see how they would code, and would make more sense it being 3 boxes with 1 relic choice each to make it clearer, but here's to hoping. If it is 3 generically terrible relics per toon then yea that's not going to fly.

Pretty sure they all are being added to the box, just none of the relics from SotO. But they are also changing and probably simply dropping rune 6 piece bonuses that might be too good after the change or were simply not useful even before the update. The example for thief rune change is 10% bonus damage against flanking is really strong with the recent changes to how flanking is treated against mobs with an unbreakable defiance bar, and tied to a really mediocre rune didn't make it desirable, but being free to choose whenever might be too strong. And even with 100+ rune sets not all of them had a unique 6 piece, some of them just had base stats anyways so maybe the number is about right.

Pretty soon now

Unclear. We don't know costs, or if there are hard caps on purchases. We aren't sure what are in the starter kits, or why it relates to very specific legendary weapons (maybe it will change the type of lodestones involved to make the gifts? Depending on the AA costs would it be unreasonable to have an account bound precursor? We just don't have any information). Other possibilities could be Gen 1 vs Gen 2 vs Gen 3 legendaries which would all require different possible "ingredients". For the gen 1 you might get dungeon currency to buy the gift from the dungeon vendors. Maybe gen 2 has curios, or the shards for the specific weapon, gen 3 has a whole bunch of specific materials that are only relevant to them.

I mean that was more an argument about how the meaning of infinite isn't exactly flexible and not really to do with change of the system. But while we are going on about time, if the best ingame gold grind was say 100 gold an hour, and your 60 gold/28 days took you roughly 10 seconds to get in login, that means that you made about ~2.14 gold per every 10 seconds, ~12.84 gold per minute, and approximately ~770 gold her hour, per account. It required no actual playing of the game, no gearing up, there's no skill required, no effort.