[Not rewarded for effort]

2 hours ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

Match quality has become worse and worse

Well that's very logical, because the player base is getting smaller and smaller unfortunately 

[Can anet just admit there's too much to balance?]

5 hours ago, Barabbas.8715 said:

Don't ever expect Anet to learn how to balance PVP. They are a company that literally thinks having a skill like Moa be unbreakable and unavoidable with no counterplay is a good idea. Can you imagine if Blizzard made Polymorph unbreakable and unavoidable with no counterplay options? Even they aren't that dumb and they're drunk most of the time.

Blizzard are even dumber

[Can you please limit the matchmaking system to tier rank]

12 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

You said it happened rarely in the past, but it was not a big deal. Which I just disagree with.

well here i speak from my experiance only. I play on EU which has higher playerbase than NA, and 2 years ago when i was playing i personally very rarelly had matches which had even 1 bracket difference for example gold 2-3 with palt1-2, almost all of my matches where with people in the same bracket (gold with gold, palt with plat and etc). Also the top 250 had much higher rank than now, if i remember correctly you had to be around high plat 2 in order to be in top 250.

 

 

15 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Your "data" about ff14 is not convincing.

Its an example of a similar case as gw2 but with restricted matchmaking and the case is not very good, as i said once your reach plat you just no matches and the season ends pretty much if its not the first few days of the season. Big problem there is that there is no rating decay so players just sit their rating and never queue id its not nesesery which is another big problem for high rating players.

 

 

19 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

The class swapping, won't affect new players. If you don't know how the meta works and barley can play a single Profession it is just a Quality of life feature, so you can q on any Character without worries. It is uncompetitive, but that affects only People who have tight grasp on the meta and the countless hours invested to play multiple Professions on a High level

i personally disagree , i started swaping classes 2 weeks after i started pvp, i learned how to play easy classes as core condi necro, power reaper, core shout support guardian so i started swaping depending on what was needed for the team. So in my opinion this starts affecting you quite early and becomes a point of frustration quite early.

 

 

21 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

While more frequent Balance Patches would be appreciated, their impact on the lowers tiers is less then you think

that is true, but that is a change which will be highly appropriated by higher tier players and also more higher tier players will come back, the changes which i propose are not focused on new players specificly but also geting old players back, i dont know why exactly are you talking only for new players .

 

 

24 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

I wholeheartedly agree that Duo Q is a problem, I just disagree that the generous range of the matchmaker is a lesser Problem. You may disagree, but I suspect you are somewhere in Plat. A elo range where the too big range is a lesser Problem, if not flat out beneficial.

i am gold 1 currently, as i said i came back recently so i have to learn the new specs and the new meta.

 

25 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Player who reached their peak below plat are stuck the rest of the season in a cycle of swingy, uncompetitive games. Many will sooner or later choose to leave PvP behind, like many Players before them

yes thats true, i completely agree with that, the only thing which we didnt agree is the solution. But as i said let them try it it better than not doing nothing because the pvp will die if nothing changes.





 

[Can you please limit the matchmaking system to tier rank]

48 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

The issue with ff14 is the pvp is just not good, and last I checked, the self healing was broken AF. Reducing pvp populations can't just be assigned to 1 thing. Also, it depends how the matchmaking was implimented.

 

I know what you are getting at, but I do beleive that the matchmaking system (Can I say MMS) at current is such a huge problem, that it is one of the key reasons people leave pvp, or become trolls/selfish players which then entices others to leave. The other key factor (and probably more of an issue) is the amount of broken or toxic specs. The problem is, Gw2 has some serious mechanical flaws that would make this game very difficult to balance, such as the mass amount of AOE dmg, AOE CC, AOE healing and AOE mitigation. Those issues will not be fixed any time soon if at all, yet MMS changes can reduce a lot of the toxicity in pvp, for multiple reasons. There will always be some spec to moan about in class based pvp.. that is a given, but arguing over things like plats vs silvers/low gold in a ranked game is something we shouldn't even be discussing, it should never have been a possibility under any circumstance. The other issues you mentioned would have only effected certain elos, or would not have been possible with a restricted MMS. Bots for example would much more likely sink to bronze, along with AFKers.. where they would no longer be match made with silver, certainly not gold. I was 1 game off getting into G3 not so long ago, and I watched a bot (I hope it was a bot) run to our near, which we had control of, and just stand there. We lost that game, and thats when I realised rank means nothing, their is no escaping newbs, bots, afters from lower ranks.. so why bother trying to get to a high enough rank to avoid it.

 

If higher end players begin leaving the game becuase of restrictions, more people from gold would climb into low plat to fill the void, I think you are underestimating how many people currently in gold and even silver, are actually low plat standard, but are being screwed over by the matchmaking. I think it would actually be gold tier that has the longest wait times initially.. since many will sink to their true silver level (not being carried) and many will climb to their true low plat level (not being dragged down). Getting into gold is not hard, team work alone is enough to win most games.. and those who teamwork, will rise fast out of silver, where I will be waiting. I am toxic in this game I won't lie, I cannot stand selfish players, but anybody tried to peel for me, or picks me up, always gets a TY,  and a lot more of my healing/support effort. I wan't to play with players like that regularly.. not just 1 in 10 games.

 

 

I understand completely i want to play with more players which you described too.

FF14 pvp is nto the best thats true the game is designed for PvE not PvP, but still the problem with MM really shines there because of the low pvp population, i played a lot of PvP there too and once i get to plat the season is over because i cannot get even 1 game so i play unranked instead thats not a desirable outcome either. Also same thing happend in Lost ark too. It started good the pvp was active, once everybody figured out the meta , people started asking for nerfs buffs etc, people discovered ways to win trade and that started killing ranked pvp, then when the playerbase became low enough the MM started making unbalanced matches by match making low tier with high tier , the devs never addressed any of the issues so the pvp died and now it locks that the whole game is dead too 😄

Again You might be right and that change might actually bring more people back, i am just expressing my concern that this change potentially can have a negative impact instead of positive too and the in my opinion that is more likely.

[Can you please limit the matchmaking system to tier rank]

1 hour ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

I know how a matchmaker functions, thank you very much. You basically saying: Yes it was a Problem, but it did not affect me and the following lower Player numbers are unrelated to that. That is not an argument, it is wishful thinking. It is all nonono don't touch me, please manifest new player out of thin air, who are willing to deal with that BS.
The statement about fairer matches being bad and not affecting Match quality from a dev 8(?) years ago, can you put where the sun doesn't shine.

Thats not what i am saying at all thats why i asked you to read again carefully . Let me summarize it for you, i agree that it would be much better to matchmake people with very close MM this will lead to higher quality matches , I believe that the solution which you propose is not good at the moment and will have more negative impact than positive, I gave you the data which makes me believe that  and i propose different solution to the same problem, maybe i didnt chose the best words to express my opinion and i am sorry for that but, lets not become toxic ,  lets try to have more constructive conversation on the topic

[Can you please limit the matchmaking system to tier rank]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I have read carefully, and respectfully, you are closed minded in this specific case. If people have the option to opt into a ''que with same rank tier'' (or something very close to it) then that is not an all or nothing. Im sure many will opt in.. but I am also sure many people simply never have, or will care about high team work (or rank), and will prefere fast games. The issue you keep ignoring is that some specs will never reach plat, and some people are happy with that, and will be happy to que with whoever. Some people pvp just to go 1v1, again with no care of team work or rank. Some just do dailys, others do it purely for fun of just being in pvp. There are plenty of people who don't care, and will just want fast games. You are being an all or nothing person.. this is not an all or nothing suggestion.. and it does not reflect past ''data''.

 

Since you mention data, so far 41 people would like to only play with similar skill level. 24 people don't care (assuming the plat responses are not trolls). Why can't both have their option?

 

Btw, not being closed minded comes with the distinct benefit of adapting an idea. You make some valid points about attracting more players, and that is easy. Announce new spvp maps/modes, and also announce the new ''optional'' ranking system.

 

The incentive for the developers is also easy (And I think they have been extremely short sighted). I have baught 3 expantions just to unlock specialisations for pvp. I will not buy the next one to unlock weapons, becuase the way spvp and the ranking system is being ran.. is shocking. I would not have baught the expantions knowing what I know now. However, I would buy the weapons expantion if they actaully put some meaningfull effort into pvp. Am I just the exception?

 

 

Respectfully , but i am not close minded, I am simply saying why i think this wont have a positive impact if its done now, but if they decide to try it out do it lets see i hope that i am wrong, simply the similar cases (ff14, lost ark) , show that such restriction didnt led to improvement but had negative impact. In summery i totally agree that limited brackets in MM would be the best case and i would be very happy if that happens, just the data shows that in the current state of the population it is more likely that this change would have more negative impact than positive.

We both agree that matching broze with plat is not okay. For me that is nto such a problem, but i totally agree that it would be much better for the game in general if everybody is matched with people with close MMR. 
Your proposal is to restrict MM - this will lead to more balanced matches , but in the current state there is high chance of actually having negative impact because it will drastically increase queue times especially for higher rank. Then you propose the flexibility to choose , but this has the same potential problem.
My proposal is to firstly increase the population by addressing other major problems, and then restrict the MM when we have big enough pvp playerbase.

I am not all or nothing person just i am proposing something which i believe have higher chance to lead to improvement, thats it. But I am all up for any type of change and test because something has to be done or the pvp will just simply continue to die. Restricting the MM now to me looks like a bandage to a much bigger issue and it wont save pvp in my opinion if we dont start bringing more people into pvp and the main reasons because of which people started leaving pvp was not unbalanced matches , because as i said before when the playerbase was much higher the matches were balanced with people with very close MMR, but issues as botting , match manipulating , win trading, class balance made the player base quit which led to the bracket problem.

[Can you please limit the matchmaking system to tier rank]

8 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Have you ever considered that more people would play, or return to spvp if the matchmaking system wasn't such a pointless joke that only truly benefits plat duo que dodgers?

i did and i gave you 2 reasons why i dont believe that will happen also another community manager gave you information of a test performed which actually had more negative impact than positive which furtur prove why we first need more players and then restrict the matchmaking (but if we have mroe players the MM will automatically make much more quality matches without restrictions because its designed this way, you can check the WIKI). I already told you that multiple times, so please read carefully the posts.

  

8 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Right now, you actually get punished as a solo player the higher your rank gets, becuase by the law of numbers (rank distribution) the team mates and enemy skill gap will only increase.. not decrease. This means you faceroll half of the games with 30% team damage.. and then get facerolled the next game. Ironically, in defeats I mostly end up doing more like 35/40% team damage, since the newer players on team get wiped out so fast. So what are we all learning here? apart from bigger skills gaps results in players getting wiped out in seconds? such fun for all.

What you learn depends on you and how do you analyze the situation. Nobody can teach you anything no matter the match making if you are not willing to learn  and if you are willing to learn you have enough instruments to do so. I am not punished by the machmaking , i am punished by the devs which dont pay enough attention to sPvP, by allowing matchmaking manipulation, bots , rare balance and etc. with the curren population the match making is "expecting" the higher rating people to carry the lower rating, i complitelly understand that this is not very desirable , but restricting the matchmaking will not fix that but reduce even more the already low spvp playerbase in my opinion which is based on reasons and examples given in my previous posts.

[Can you please limit the matchmaking system to tier rank]

35 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Also I need a source on it wasn't a Problem before.

The source is how the matchmaking algo works. When there were more players the matchmaking algo actually managed to make teams with players only from the same bracket ... 2 years ago in my matches in EU i fought only against people in my bracket because the pvp populations was much higher and the MM managed to do much more quality fights and it was much more rare gold players to be matched with plat and etc. You can read in the WIKI how exactly the MM works. Thats why so many people are telling you that we need more players and in order to bring back more players ANET need to adress some major problems mentioned in my previous post.

[Can you please limit the matchmaking system to tier rank]

36 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

@razaelll.8324Please spare me the speech about "getting good". I'm Gold 3. The whole mentality that only Plat Players are real Players is 80% of the reason PvP dies. Yes class swapping is uncompetitive, door should be closed and scoreboard hidden or something. If you think that has an effect on the Popularity of the mode for casuals you need to touch grass.

Also I need a source on it wasn't a Problem before. Top player showing up in games they shouldn't be is a Problem for years now. It is only has gotten worse now.

Please read carefully what I wrote and comment again

 

36 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

The whole mentality that only Plat Players are real Players is 80% of the reason PvP dies.

Never claimed that nor said it... As I said I am gold too. Everybody is a real player and deserve equal chance to play.

 

[Can you please limit the matchmaking system to tier rank]

8 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

No, I say the top 200 leeches of the Player base via the matchmaker. The range is too big and you have to sit down and wait. I honestly don't know how Anet even justifies PvP balance Patches right now to be honest. They are mostly aimed at top player, so 200 people times 2 for each region. That is a meager 400 People. Mister CmC does cost money you know. Don't know if 400 People can pay that bill.
I can't even talk about the top 250 because there are not enough plats to fill the leaderboard anymore. It is a Joke. Nobody gonna play the game you have invested so much time in, when the Matches are so out of balance. Simple as that. You can accept that, or play in your own filth for a year maybe two.
 

You sound like the matchmaking is the only thing which drives people away from PvP. That is not the case. Are you willing to improve or not is not going to be solved by matchmaking so please stop searching for excuses and try to blame the game and everything else for stuff which are in your own control. You have the means to learn improve your self and get better so you dont get stomped by better players.

When there were more people into PvP and the matchmaking were matching people from the same league only, nobody complained about that part of the match making but still people left PvP, why is that? Because of class swapping which bypass the match making, because of duoQ , botting especially in low ratings ,slow and rare balance patches and lack of attention and new stuff in spvp. That are the main reasons which led people to leave pvp and after they left the matchmaking became a problem because there are not enough players. 

The matchmaking system currently tries to find people around your MMR , if it cannot then it starts looking for other people so it can reduce the queue times. Is that perfect , no its not because it leads to less quality matches but it reduces the queue times.  If you restrict now the matchmaking to search for people only from your own bracket that will lead to very bad queue times and some players wont even have matches because some brackets simply dont have enough players which will make even more people to quit trying to play SPvP. Another community member mentioned that this experiment was done before by ANET and it didnt led to much improvements in terms of match quality but it increased queue times dramatically so the result was more negative than positive. I my self gave you an example with a MMO which does that and the PvP suffer there even more. FF14 matchmaking matches bronze silver and mid gold together , then high gold with plat and crystal. the queue times in the lower bracket are around 3-7  minutes (during peak gaming time for the region, 30+ minutes for off time) the queue times in the high bracket are 20min + (during the peak gaming time and no queues at all during off hours) so most of the people including me when reach plat and above just stop queuing for ranked and play unranked instead, which further increases the queue times in the high bracket. When you queue and see average wait time 30+ minutes, you just simply unqueue and do something else. Same thing happend with Lost ark ranked pvp.

Nobody here is holding for the current matchmaking because he wants easy stomps , experienced people can just queue unranked and stomp everybody there if they want easy stomps.

TLDR. Restricted matchmaking IS the best case scenario but it need enough players in order to not have very big negative impact on the queue times which have big negative impact on participation, so in conclusion in order for this to work we need to bring more people back into spvp and that will happen only if the problems above start getting addressed. 

[Can you please limit the matchmaking system to tier rank]

45 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I don't have a problem with duo que if its actually done right; rating goes on highest player, matchmaking is fixed so that plat/high gold duo will never face silver EVER. I actually think full pre-made should be a thing, with an actual decent matchmaking system based on the highest player rating. However, it seems people here are scared of full premades, I assume due to the developers failed attempts to get it rigth leaving the vets with pre-made ptsd or something. WOW did premade arena for years, it had its class based balance issues, but the actual system was very good, all things considered. ''Plat rating climbers'' will always be something you will see here and their, joining new teams etc, even seen it in wow. Difference with wow is that once you got to a certain level, you were matched with players much closer to that level, unless you were in a dead server (I think they then also introduced more servers into the same zone to help adress the issue). Point is, I've seen what a decent matchmaking system looks like, and Gw2 falls FAR short, genuinely far short.

 

There is no wonder bots/afkers are so common in this ranked, even in gold, as they can be carried and held in higher elos through this rediculous RNG matchmaking. That alone is a solid reason for tier based matchmaking, so all the bots, afkers and out right troller/selfish players can sink to low bronze. Sure that will suck for somebody who is a newb and might end up in low bronze, but again.. its a numbers game. Why subject 80% of the middle playerbase to this (and to being qued with plats on the other end). Putting this burden on the majority of the pvp playerbase I can garuntee is unhealthy for playerbase retention, how is spvp playerbase doing?... was kitten long before cata.

 

Now I barely even see any good players, As gold 2, at least six of the players Im matched with were very clearly bronze/low silver at best, 20 games in a row. Maybe the good players left becuase of cata, but that's just the iceneing on the shitcake. There will always be a broken spec that good players will abuse, its better to let them climb with a capped matchmaking system, where they then impact the fewest people possible. As said in other threads, a brainded cata/scrapper/sb is a free kill to a compitant player on just about any class.. the bad bandwaggon players will no longer get carried by the actual good players, and will fall to where they belong. So then, you won't have those games where the very good SB on mid, is basically stunlocking the kitten out of everything, indirectly protecting that noob condi cata/necro/meser or w/e.. who essentially spams auto attacks.

 

 

 

 

I strongly disagree with you as I said, and WoW has its own issues which I don't really wish to discuss. SoloQ just does not work well with restricted matchmaking if you don't have enought players , I am sorry but that's the reality which can be seen in all MMOs which have SoloQ systems. At this point I see no point in continuing the discussion since we are just running in circles so let's just agree to disagree.

 

Have a good day mate.

[Can you please limit the matchmaking system to tier rank]

On 7/8/2023 at 9:22 PM, Saiyan.1704 said:

This triggered an old memory, before AT's and before the PiP reward system (so several years ago). Anet added a bracket system like that. The average queue times were between 8minutes to 12minutes. It looked for your bracket first then expanded to other brackets after an allotted time. According to anet, "there wasn't an improvement in match quality when increasing queue times" - [paraphrasing][forgot where and when it was said].

(Edit: found a source)

"The problem is the system will trash until those rosters are matched, causing everyone behind them to be stuck waiting. Also, just because we can't find a match customized for a specific roster doesn't mean the roster won't be picked as part of another match customized for some other roster. E.g. a high MMR team may not be able to find 5-9 players at the same high level, but they may be able to fill the a spot with someone lower but whom they're still in range of. Justin ODell (talk) 16:35, 2 December 2014"

Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Talk:PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

TL;DR version: Increasing queue times strictly for Brackets didn't work very well. Majority of players were frustrated with long queue times and it didn't drastically increase match quality.

Thank you for the source.

[Can you please limit the matchmaking system to tier rank]

2 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

In my silver 3 game was a plat 3. I could walk over some of my opponents, I don't know what the Plat did to them because some of my opponents just got teleported back to spawn. 1 Division is gigantic gap. While my Ego is quit big, I know when the game gives me Freelo thanks to matchmaking.
Gold 1 vs plat players is not a match it is a joke. Less so when the gold 1 are gold 3 in disguise like yourself.

Yes silver player don't have much change against plat player in 1 v 1 , but you are not playing 1v1 mode the match making is trying to match the teams to have similar average mmr which means that if you are silver 3 and you have plat opponent them most probably you have plat player in your team too to balance the forces. This is a team mode after all not 1v1.

 

2 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Pls explain to me what and how did you learn from getting punched in the face by people that are faster then you and 20kg non-fat mass heavier then you.

This is not good comparison you are not fighting against "heavier " opponent in terms of character power the pvp is equalized so you are fighting more experienced opponent, so you are not 50 kg fighting against 100 kg you are 50 kg inexperienced against 50 kg experienced person. Fire weaver in your hands and in my hands have the same physical power, the difference is only the player skill. When I said that in my carrier I learned from better opponents I ment more experienced and skilled not physically stronger.   It is basically the same when I started I got my self beaten on my sparing but in time I learned my opponent movements ,weaknesses ,improved my technic by practicing and etc so I in time I started holding my ground against them and finally beat them .... Same as in the game start as a noob , practice, learn and then start wining. It's not a good idea to start learning by jumping in ranked pvp before you even know what you are doing and have some basics. You should first learn your class , practice your burst on dummy then practice in unranked , learn what different classes do , their strengths and weaknesses and then you start going into ranked ....

[Can you please limit the matchmaking system to tier rank]

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

There will always be a million things to fix on a game balance level becuase the core mechancis of the game are way to casual, almost everything is AOE and multiple abilities do 3 or 5 things for 1 signle button. It's either faceroll DPS for 5 buttons, or absolute bunker build face tanking ''what is dodging?'' for 5 buttons. Any of the more complicated specs are basically redundent on an effort>reward scale (weaver, power cata, old engi builds etc) under the shear ease and wide spread use of the bs casual specs like sb, virt, scrapper, condi cata, blade, necro in general, rangers AFK vines, DH trap spam, targets drops across multiple classes. The weapons have not even landed yet, which is going to break the game even further.

 

Basically.. this game will never, ever be balanced on a core mechanic level, its simply impossible withough a complete revamp. However, they can at least fix the matchmaking system, which isn't hard to do, and would remove 90% of the frustration of playing with newbs, or people just trolling and running meme specs/farming dailys/ AFK/ w/e else.

I never said the game will be balanced I said that more frequent balance tuning will be greatly appreciated by the pvp community and also that in my opinion duoQ and class slapping are much bigger issues in my opinion which can be fixed quite easely , which will decrease the frustration of player by quite a lot in my opinion

[Can you please limit the matchmaking system to tier rank]

24 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

There is nothing to learn from this matchmaking system. It is RNG of who has the most newbs.. and ontop of that, who has a condi cata with half a braincell.

 

I am absolutely tired of being put into games with silver and bronze players. I don't care about rank becuase rank right now means nothing. If you are bronze, silver gold or plat, you are mixed in with this dead playerbase of all ranks, where trying to team work is just pointless, and winning is also pointless as you will never escape being put in with silvers and bronze once in gold. Its toxic, its not fun.. and tbf Im about done with this god aweful game.

Sorry but I disagree for the reason mentioned above, as I said I am not against what you propose it is the best case scenario, but in the current state of pvp I don't think it would work and there are other things to be fixed first before that

[Can you please limit the matchmaking system to tier rank]

29 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Go in the Ring with a prime mike Tyson, tell me how much you think you gonna learn from the fight. My guess? "Don't go in the ring with Iron Mike"
There are better players in a smaller range too. You act like Gold 1 fighting Gold 3 is a fight devoid of skill difference.
If someone wants to get destroyed by better players they can join the tournaments. They even get 10 Gold for their troubles.

No I am not acting that way and if you read what I said in my previous post you would see that. You act like a group of bronze is against group of plat and that's not the case the matchmaking is trying to make teams with close average mmr so probably both teams will have gold1 and plat players. Also as I said previously I have been in much higher rank thank gold1 previously just I recently came back and I am learning the new meta and the new elites. Also in my amateur boxing carrier I learned from better people than me not from worse..

[Can you please limit the matchmaking system to tier rank]

7 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

It is genuinely against human psychology to continually lose, and to then keep doing the same thing. We see this happen in movies, where some ''hero'' fails and fails and fails until finally succeding, but that isn't how it works in real life for the mass majority of people. If you are a support for example, and you continually get killed while your team mates (who are low silver bronze) don't peel becuase they simply don't know how to, most will not play support for long, and they don't (even I rarely play support now, and I much prefere it). Similarly, if you play a thief, and get killed in every mid fight around players who actaully know to pressure, becuase the thief is not built to team fight.. then you will stop going to team fights. I see ''novice'' thiefs doing this all the time, they know they die in group fights, they are not confident in 1v1, so they actively avoid pvp and go far to back cap all game. They get caps, and convince themself they are useful, so continue this playstyle (even though we know this makes every mid fight a 5v4 / 4v3) which is why many players hate having a novice thief on their team. I once had a game where our mesmer litterally refused to leave spawn becuase we had 2 thiefs. This isn't about thiefs, but its about the perception of ''having a chance to win in some way''. Going up against genuine gold/plat skilled playre, reduces a bronze/silvers chance to have some form of personal victory.. be it a 1v1 on far or w/e.. they just get destroyed.

 

Ask any plat player, they all mostly admit that winning games is based on who can take the most advantedge of the other teams less skilled players. If you continually kill 3 newb ''roamers'' (aka feeders), their plat player is then at a huge 5 or 4v2 disadvantedge most of the game.

I am not saying that you should do same thing over and over I am saying that you should learn from your looses... It's very logical that the wining team will focus on the weakest player and he has to learn to adapt try different things different builds, classes, practice in unranked and etc.. as I said everybody was a noob when he started that's not an excuse of not willing to learn and practice. At least that's my view and for me the process of learning that way is the most enjoyable part of pvp, learning and practicing so you would be more useful for your team and your skill improves with your rank. When I started I was the main target and as I said I had terrible win/loose ratio that never demotivated me but the opposite it motivated me to improve practice and get better, so in time I started wining more and more 1v1 fights then I started managing 1v2 and etc. 

 

Tldr. I understand your point and it is a best case scenario but it works only if you have big enought population, but we don't so this would not work properly at the moment imo. You can take ff14 for example there the pvp community is also small and below plat the queue is fine . There bronze silver and gold are matched together. Once you enter plat you wait 2 hour to find a match because there are not enought people at this rank. So in my opinion if they address the class swapping and duoq wintrading + do more frequent balance that will bring more people into pvp and then what you propose would work.

[Dead part of GW2: PVP]

30 minutes ago, Mika.2057 said:

I think merging Rank and Unranked queue for the same mode would be a good idea but still keep an Unranked queue for the other mode and alternate.

• During a Conquest Ranked season, have the Unranked queue be 2v2/3v3.
• During a 2v2/3v3 Ranked season, have the Unranked queue be Conquest.

I also think losing a match should yields less reward than currently to discourage AFKers, etc.  

That's not a bad idea to be honest.

[Can you please limit the matchmaking system to tier rank]

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Then you are in the exception group. There is very little to learn as a silver/bronze player, being killed by a plat in a live game.. thats what dueling is for, its far better for learning. You also don't understand psychology at all, if people continously lose and feel like they have no chance, they stop, that applies to anything, not just gaming. Putting a vet gold/plat player against true bronze/silver newbs means they will lose almost every 1v1 fight (and even a lot of 2v1's), bar some fringe exceptions. Just look at all the uproar now about ''unkillable cata'' driving people out of pvp, becuase they feel they cannot compete against it. Plat/high gold players (who will be playing a solid dps) have that same effect on low silver/bronze players. They will either quit, or just not take ranked seriously, and stop engaging with team play.

 

Everybody new is inexperienced and will loose more at the begining than win that's pretty normal. I disagree that it's very little to learn by fighting against stronger players. It depends on you really. I personally learn faster when I go against stronger people. Some people are not like that. Is people like me minority or not I don't know I don't have statistics on the topic if you do please share them, if you don't then speak for your self please and do not generalize. Also please don't get me wrong your point of view is very understandable and mean no disrespect, I just disagree with vast generalizations without data to back them up.

 

The outcome of loosing is 2 directional either it will stimulate you to learn or discourage you, I personally am from the first type,I started with very bad win/loose ratio but in time it improved and before I quited 2 years ago I managed to go in top 250, I came back 2 weeks ago and I am still learning the new meta and specs and slowly but steady climbing and I really enjoy the process. Willing to learn from your looses and mistakes is the essence of being competitive in my opinion.

As I said in my opinion class swapping and duoQ are much bigger issues, and should be addressed first. I believe this 2 things actually drive much more people out of pvp. Also if there were more frequent balance adjustments it would be much better for the health of spvp.

 

[Can you please limit the matchmaking system to tier rank]

21 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Right now, the entire pvp playerbase is suffering, just so plat players don't have a long que time.

Please speak for your self mate, I am not suffering at all (currently gold 1) ... And I don't mind having any type of players as long as the team mmr is close to equal.

 

I like playing against stronger opponents , because that's how I learn and improve .

 

In my opinion much bigger issue is that you can swap classes and bypass the matchmaking and manipulate it in that way, and duoQ.

[DON'T FORGET TO OPEN THIS PUBLICATION]

1 hour ago, Anaston.2840 said:

Thank you Bro ! Lets Go! 💪💥❤️

Let's go brother

[DON'T FORGET TO OPEN THIS PUBLICATION]

2 hours ago, Anaston.2840 said:

 

How wonderful!
It is serious! I get goosebumps.

In the last few days I opened a ticket for the ARENANET in which I make BASIC proposals for changes in the SPvP (NA, but it could also fit wherever they wanted.) I dedicated myself and committed myself without earning absolutely nothing! I did it because I LOVE Guild Wars 2! I LOVE THE SPVP COMMUNITY! and I WANT the best for the future of this game. I even wonder.... what are the perspectives of ARENANET in relation to SPvP and the competitive scenario? Maybe the answer is NONE! After all, they did not know and are not willing to risk an investment in it.

Without further ado, I made a proposal and they asked me to put it on the forum, and with all the respect I have for the arenanet I did so, and the feedback I got was totally positive about what the community really needs (but the arenanet does not manifest itself) We need a more DEMOCRATIC conversation.
Maybe some of you are already following the topics I brought and feel as forgotten and left out as I do. After all, 25 interactions in a "player vs player" thread is a peak of interaction. 600 views and more than 15 comments.
RIGHT! I must be going crazy and being a big idiot to trust trust that they will value and change their strategy in relation to the pvp scenario.
This is all a big pity. They could be making a lot more money if they invested in it correctly with a specialized team, etc.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about leaving 3 links (2 of topics and 1 of a print because I made a screenshoot of registering this in case they delete my post)

If you care about this cause as much as I do. Open a personal ticket to the team and share the links mentioned in this thread. I'll be very grateful! We need a proactive community. (especially the screenshot link, which may be out of date but says it all!)

First attempt to seek interaction and engagement with the community (< link 1)

Second attempt to democratically prove the will of the community through voting in the forum. (< link 2)

Screenshot to record everything I did and the results. (< link 3)

Regards, 

A customer try to make SPvP better withou any $. 🤡

2 years ago I tried similar thing, unfortunately my efforts back then didn't led to anything. Hopefully yours will have more success I support your ideas.

 

Here are some links of ideas which I posted

 

 

 

 

 

[What do you get out of playing sPVP in 2023?]

I personally find spvp engaging and fun , that's why I play it. I personally couldn't say that the balance is terrible as people describe it , I know that probably noone will agree on the forum with me , but I personally find the balance actually quite decent compared to other MMOs (off course it could be better, I wish they did more frequent balance tunings) , but to answer the question I just find enjoyment in spvp and that's why I play it.

[Disallow class swap after a match loads]

8 hours ago, Frequency.6407 said:

Because the matchmaker tries to match classes on both teams. Swapping classes is breaking the matchmaker.

Totally agree. I am advocating for that from 2 years and some community members for much longer. Unfortunately it is still allowed to swap classes.

[what are you worried about for upcoming expansion?]

On 7/3/2023 at 11:12 AM, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

That issue has to deal with the actual procedure of number adjustment: that it fundamentally doesn’t work.

If I had to describe it like I’ve done in the past but more esoterically: it’s a force of nature…a law of physics. As the game becomes more complex, the ability to balance it with numbers will further remove itself from possibility. You can’t fight these forces with these man-made tools …not by taking stuff away nor adding more to it: the flaw is in the procedure itself because at its core, number balance can not be done in principle.

The way this game and any game for that matter can be balanced is through a totally different mechanism, the same mechanism nature uses: nature simply creates all possible things…and in the space of all possible things the automata find ways to fit into it, creating their own roles, purpose, establishing counters, and cooperation in that landscape of possibilities.

Once you realize this fact and embrace it rather than fight against the forces of entropy, you discover that exploring possibilities is what the world is…what all systems that exist are trying to do… and it’s a beautiful thing. The landscape of possible computer programs is made possible through the unlimited permutation of sequences of bits that we describe as 0’s and 1’s…that should blow your mind a little…the great diversity of programs that we have today which includes all games (like guild wars) is a result of these natural selection forces, competition, cooperation and invention…from nothing but the ability to combine and permute these two things.

Skills in the game are the atoms of this mechanism, and builds are the programs or constructs with which we are permuting the space of skills. It was always an inevitability, and it’s time to let go of the old, broken Newtonian paradigm, trying to homogenize in an attempt to make things equal. You can’t put gw2 in a box, it can’t be controlled by these outdated man-made number constructions.

If your wondering it’s all about rules (mechanics) and what they do that ultimately determines how things unfold in the balance state of the game. And not anything specific…it’s about how versatile and dynamic these rules and mechanics are…will they create static boring behaviors or nuanced and complex behaviors…that’s it. Create rules (mechanics) that inspire novel behavior and do it on everything…that’s it. It’s not even hard tbh. The imagination is the only limit and there’s no limit to imagination. When I look at gw2 mechanics I mostly see the lack of imagination that went into its skill design.

I am glad you are still here. Missed your philosophical point of view on the balance topic. 

On the question tho I am worried that they will not add new spvp content, I would really like permanent ranked 2v2 and 3v3 arena based modes or some different objective based modes.