Flowki.7194

I had game with plat duo vindis, my team did the usual gold bs of run off alone, and got farmed all game by them. I just don't think that duo would have been able to gank people on any other roamer ;[ Meanwhile, more and more group fights involving mirage+mace ranger+spb. If you have anything less than constant stab uptime/blocks/immunes, just don't bother? But lets not put the focus on low skill dps application via 24/7 CC spam, keep the focus on vindi evades.

Just let people cope, vindi is so broken that everybody should play it: Less SPB/Untamed/Druid/WB/DH/Virt/Mirage/SLB-moreusingmace/Thief.. thats absolutely fine by me.

When was power not dominating the meta? All I know is, more and more power builds have the effective sustain of a support, while zipping around the map with zerker amu. I do encourage anybody to go side node on hammer cata (which was meta last year) to see just how far the power mobility/sustain creep has gotten.

I remember when condi was considered "cheap" or "low skill" becuase such builds often came with passive sustain/mitigation. But now, looking around, power builds in general have never been easier to lay down damage, and multiple power specs are absolutely crept in sustain/mobility, on par or more than such condi builds. Yet they are hard ridden as "good specs" becuase they are power, isn't it slightly ironic?

The only people down playing the stab/cc/dmg access are the ones playing it. I have not took the time to get good on it, and probably won't, becuase nerfs are very clearly inc.. you simply cannot duel this spec (as in dominate it off the point) outside of a few builds. Dodge/block the CC? get hit by decent damage, dodge the damage? Get hit by CC and take damage anyway. CC the untamed? It has 3x stunbreaks, assuming you can land your own CC between dodging all of its.. and its stab jumps. It has about as much stab uptime as the old cata did, yet 5X the sustain/cc. The CC alone is rediculous, 2x ranged pet CC, and what, 6 cc's across maces? I also dueled a good player who was using an off meta condi virsion. No offense to him (I can link the vid) but he ate almost every CC, all of my damage, and never dropped below 50% once. I dodge most of the key things also, but got wittled down. This same build I use is killing SPBs, druids, scourge, and other such specs fast, if they eat that same cc/damage. I am using condi, and it obviously can be cleansed, but should a spec be able to eat all cc/damage and survive? The duel took nion 1 min of that, constant CCing him, and applying damage, which was continually being cleansed. Where is the punishment? Just got out a ranked game with 3x untamed. I was hoping it would be too hard at lower levels but thats not seeming to be the case. They had 2x untamed, SPB, and a bunker core gaurd. So whats the plan then, when all 4 of those specs basically require a 45+ second dual (best case in that they fk something up) or just "ignore them". The unpunishables meta 😜

The ones that do 5k damage, stun and daze 😜 Oh, and an 8k AOE auto attack that also comes with stability. I think he was dead before that though. Obviosuly it takes skill to use properly, im losing duels vs competent players mostly, but cmon.. it will only get better with more practice, like pet 2 after one of your many CC options, giving a nice 3 second slow, things like that.

Yeah these are all hard skills to learn, and all the more reason not to be putting seasoned players in the same games as more novice/average level players, ranked or unranked. Im currently in g1 and its judt pointless +7 wins and losses as much as -19. I really do not give a kitten about winning or losing.. but +7 wins I go afk half the time, the enemey are so much below my skill level its actually not fun or fair to kill them. Equally on the flip side, being farmed by a fotm plat duo in g1? Great, wp Anet, fun and competitive gaming. The only close games I had this season were becuase both teams were so unorganised, everything was continually being capped and decaped in a state of chaos, no defense at all, 8 players all holding down W, and zerging w/e point wasnt capped. I would love it if silver and below had only 1 point, gold had 2 points, and plat had 3 points. I just don't think the 3 point system works at lower levels, its absolute chaos.

Omg cmon man.. I just jumped on the meta untamed build for the first time and beat a plat vindi just by smashing buttons, 5k crit 5k crit 5k crit daze stun daze stun This is broken

I play a hybrid core rev group fight spec, which also turns out to be a decent dueler. Don't get it twisted, I am not expecting to consistantly beat p2 players on power specs with this build, thats besides the point. What I am getting at, is that in the continuity of duels vs p1+ power specs (vindi, holo, weaver, untamed, scrapper, etc) there are clear differences in how the fights went, what specs had to continually reset or lose, etc. The untamed p2s never had to reset once, the last time I had those kind of duels was vs staff SPB. The times I seen a p+ untamed have to reset, it was fighting a similar level druid, or power mirage. I even watched a core mace ranger slapping plat vindis and so on, but maybe there was a wide skill gap p1-p3?

Evades are annoying, I get it. The difference for me is that with vindi mechanics, you can land damage/cc between evades from the very start of the fight, which forces a noticable reaction or else they quickly die (it also only has 1 CC). I only have duels vs p1/2 untamed to go off atm, but the mechanics are much different. There is a decent amount of CC/barrier+stealth, and there is not a "time it right" factor given the barrier/counter CC options to negate pressure. Since I have not really seen any average to "decent" mace untamed, I do't know if they can be punished as easy as similar level vindi.

Why not?

You know, there was a guy who I think posts here on thief in arena last night. I was standing, and a few times he jumped and spamed 3 is it? killing me in a few seconds. Every time he did it I stood and watched. Then I was "lol" and they wonder why people complain thief can just spam 1 button. A person in local chat then said "yeah but he's just meme killing people". This is a genuine question, can you call that a meme? To actually be able to kill people in under 3 seconds from a steal then spaming 1 button? I get it "just dodge" etc.. but the shear damage and mechanics of how it achieves that ease of damage while also having high mobility? I struggle with the definition of meme in this context. Rifle warrior for example, you can see it the whole time, survive the meme 1 shot and he is in real trouble.

It's more broken than staff warrior was, but harder to play, so glad im not in high plat having to deal with that bs in competent hands.

I did that mistake with weapons once, and ended up playing core ele glass with hammer. It was a forgetable game to put it lightly 😜. In my experiance, the most AFK quitting happens from around 300-50, people just seem to realise its an unlikely turn around, that kind of gap doesnt happen withought being destroyed on every group fight. It actually seems to be the "more experianced" players who go afk (not the same as skill), and if you take the time to look you can see why, one guy just feeding mid 3v1, and another guy getting +1d every single time on far, then bragging how he held off 2 people for 20 seconds. You can't win games like that, the newer/less inclined players doing the feeding are actually enjoying it, which is why you need a lock MMR so they can all end up in the same elo together, until they learn otherwise. If not, and they enjoy that style, fair enough.. they can say in lower elo, everybody wins. Then at true gold 3 ish, most people have a good idea of how to play their spec role, where to go on the map etc. The problem in that case is P2+ are simply far better at all of it. I cannot understand why elos are not locked, their are way to many benefits to it than drawbacks. Most plat players are only playing minimum games, that alone is halfing the plat playerbase to get a game in the current system. With locked elo, I do think more gold3's would make it into p1 who play regularly. Moreover, locked elo means Q dodging is a lot less effective, so their is less insentive to do it = more games on peak. The game should not be choked out with this MMR just to please a hand full of the top rating plats, who are nothing short of cowards, frightened to lose titles and ipeen. For me its not even that important to win. My game is fun if 1: People work as a team, which includes things like making an effort to pick team mates up, peel, or show any inclination you are on a team, and not living in a Boyce roaming fantasy, where you are the main chacrictor who has to carry the peasents into civilisation.

I don't see any reason what so ever that a spec should have "avoid me" status, its aweful uninteractive pvp. If I wanted to avoid pvp i'd play pve? I wish to god they would buff core engi already, so we might get some interesting side noding for once.

I understand that, but true skill p1 players stand a FAR better chance against those players than true golds. I was genuinely in g1 a couple seasons back and got matched with Boyce 3 games in a row, he was top 5 on SLB. Is anybody going to justify that kind of MMR?? The MMR is so bad I don't even know what my true skill level actually is.. g2? g3? p1? who the fk knows. The game has never changed. I mostly sit at G3, and its always the same old kitten anywhere near off peak... a duo p1-3 plat hard riding the latest power romaing fotm, be it scrappesa, holos, SLBs, w/e.. different specs, same kitten, nuking unorganised golds from 100-0 in 3 seconds. I understand what you are saying, I do.. but the MMR is 90% of this sPVP problems. There are always going to be fotm builds, but that does not matter quite as much when players are closer to same skill levels. Again, having a constant flow of similar skilled dps on my team would also allow me to play full support, which unclocks the ability for others to play less mobile group fighters. The game is currenly in a horrendous position of power roamers absolutely dominating, which is bad, becuase power already had the general advantedge over all condi builds. I personally beleive a locked MMR would bring supports back into play, and knock roamers down a peg, which they desperately need. Not having equally skilled DPS to support vs enemy DPS is 100% the reason I don't play much support anymore, and I dare say its what stops many others playing it. Duo would also be better balanced if it forced one duo per team. If that leads to logner ques for the duos then so be it.. que solo. I don't think removing the ability for 2 friends to play together is good, becuase not all duo's are no lifer off peakers. I think most of the current top players in this game are cowards, why should everybody who may get to plat with a locked MMr, lose the ability to play with a friend becuase of those fkers?

Exactly. The current system is absolutely parasitical.. check the current top 250 players, around 90% of them are playing minimum games only. That does not tell you how many are off-peak duo or Q dodging, but the fact that they only play minimum games has this effect: Many people who would be plat (they are geneuine plat skill level) are playing more games, shafted by the MMR, and are in gold, where they can then be placed in same games as even bronze. Top 250 really just shows you who are mostly avoiding games, which reduces the plat playerbase at best (which widens MMR futher), and are parasite que dodgers at worse, famring half skilled players. The only people who suffer to MMR lock are the majority of top 250 players (and those playing like that to try and get into top 250). Everybody else gets a better game with locked MMR.. so fk em. Also, locked elo would mean reduced point loss. Even in g3, I was getting +6 wins and -17 losses.. which is rediculous. You need a 75% win rate to climb, which is not possible when every other games is a lottery of who gets the most plat roamers. But then, when you get to g3 I think the algorythm makes it much less likely the plat player will be on your team.. so if youre not p2 true skill level, gl.

Nothing wrong with duos, its again the MMR. If plats are locked against plats, the duo will have so much less impact around players of equal skill/fotm/counter spec choice. The same effect would be achieved at lower elos. I could deal with/deny area to a G3 roam duo on solo support, if I have a decent G3 group fighting team mate to play off.

Yeah its very clear the game is crept badly in dps/sustain and now mobility. The proof of this can be seen in the dismal representation of supports, I barely even see core gaurds anymore. Multiple specs are now demi god status, able to roam the map self sufficiantly and escape +1s with decent timing. There is little insentive to play support when you and your entire team can play a decent dps+mobility spec with nion the same self sustain of a support. I still play some full support, but the overepresentation of roamers, leads to absolute chaos of indivuals randomly rotating, making it a nightmare on who/where to go. The roamers never take you into consideration in their positioning, or use of CC to help you help them, yet you can't just sit on mid alone. I have nothing against roamers but there is way too much of it now, and the lack of supports in use dramatically reduces concious team playing.. which can't be healthy for the game, and limits spec representation. Many group fight builds that don't have good mobility are just free +1s now, with the absense of supports. Roaming is probably one of the most selfish playstyles by nature (not meant in a bad way), it really shouldn't be over represented, as it needs group fighters to feed off.

I know what the word means, your point is valid, you just fail to understand why it is valid.

I told you before, I avg around 300 games per season (maybe more), I play on and off peak, and typically sit at around g3, where you consistantly see the widest MMR range in the same game, especially off peak. I'm not conflating anything, seing AFKers for no good reason is nowhere near as common as you are making out. When it happens it is clearly when that team has been destroyed mutliple times. There are people in my games that I have killed just auto attacking, and im only g3, wtf do you think a try hard plat is doing to such players?

And again, in my experiance players give up when their team gets destroyed 3x in a row during group fights. I have never seen people give up after losing the first group fight, ever. When players on the enemy team have gave up, I can very often see why. The worse I ever seen was a guy on my team who refused to leave spawn from the start, becuase we had two thieves. Ill answer your question with another, do you think plat players should be rewarded with titles for deliberately que didging and off-peak farming people with half their skill? I'd sooner ban those players than afkers.

I can't help it sorry 😜 Its very alturistic when the team with a plat duo take turns teabagging the enemy at spawn. I altrusitically stay in spawn so that my team mates who enjoy being teabagged, can test out multiple positions.

You are the one advocating punishments for people; Hate You are the one saying anybody who doesn't abide by YOUR moral perception of gaming are selfish; Elitism You are accusing me of those things, when I am the one advocating fairer MMR which would reduce AFK withought penalising the mass playerbase, which means; You are also the one who is gaslighting It seems you would rather have afkers banned, reducing the pop even more, widening the range, and ensuring bronze in plats games is a regular thing, snowballing yet more AFKs, more bans, dead game. Thats what will happen if you base the AFK fix on punishment, rather than encouragement.

You seem unable to put yourself in the shoes of a player who just got destroyed 3 times in a row by a plat/high gold side noder.. or gets destroyed in seconds every time they step on mid by the likes of a gold3+ DH, even though they were blocking (you forget the complexity of this game for novice/average players). Gold3+ thieves also farm the fk out of lower skilled players, completely risk free, and so on. If I see a player go afk on my team, or the enemys, I instantly say "fu Anet, your kitten poor MMR just ruined another game". The exact same thing I think when nobody goes afk, yet it is a land slide "fu Anet, another completely uncompetitive game". You got no idea how many times Ive went AFK on the winning team.. because slaughtering players with half my skill is NOT FUN AT ALL. Does that not strike you as odd? I go afk often on winning side of a landslide, and my team still wins 4v5, slaughtering the enemy outside their spawn. You still wanne act like this skill gap has nothing to do with it?? It is the dominant reason for AFK. The only AFK outside of that are deliberate throws, which are just not common at all onpeak. I play off peak also, where those bs type of tactics tend to happen, but I rarely see it. I can count on one hand in over 5000 games where ive seen obvious AFK throws. The more common thing are those morons who pick weak specs, then swap out to fotm.. which is a horrible tactic that will feed into all of the above points im making.