Treacy.4067
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Posts posted by Treacy.4067
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1 hour ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:
No they did not 😭
Oh well. I haven't logged in since June 27th, said I'd check back later in the year to see the state of things. Hanging up my old yellow commander tag for good it seems. Thanks for answering friend. 🫡
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Did they ever change it back?
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Just now, Obtena.7952 said:
That doesn't mean the reply makes sense.
It's not making sense to you obviously. However, again, a company simply stating things are in a good state doesn't mean it's so. I don't like that you dismissed those other people in the earlier part of the thread, saying "Stop convincing yourself it's about you." or that their opinions don't factor in. What they say is valid.
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Just now, Obtena.7952 said:
Stop ... don't tell me what I'm 'trying' to say to argue with me. I know what I said. I know what I meant. I've clarified that multiple times to ensure I'm not being misrepresented. Again, telling people their opinions do not determine the good place targets for Anet class changes is NOT the same thing as saying people's opinions don't factor into class changes.
I don't need to prove my original premise is good because it's not a premise. It's just describing some of how Anet's class change process works.
I'm literally replying to your own words. I just disagree with that very first point but you kept arguing for it. Then you mentioned feedback so I responded to that as well.
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Just now, Obtena.7952 said:
Again, telling people their opinions do not determine the good place targets for Anet class changes is NOT the same thing as saying people's opinions don't factor into class changes. I can't be more clear to you on this.
Again, you said "The fact is that players opinions do not determine if something is in a good place." Based on that and your initial comment "then we are in a 'good place'. Stop convincing yourself it's about you." and others, you're trying to say you didn't say their opinions don't factor in is nonsense. Again, for the millionth time, it's irrelevant anyway to my initial point but you keep trying to make it about feedback because you can't counter prove that your original premise to be good.
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Just now, Obtena.7952 said:
Sure, It is absurd and I agree because I didn't tell 'those above' that their opinions don't factor into class changes. I said they don't determine the good place targets Anet has for the classes. That's not the same thing.
Sorry didn't mean to double post, meant to put these in the same reply. Anyway, yes you did say this and no amount of you bending over backwards over semantics will change that.
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Just now, Obtena.7952 said:
EHHH ... that's not really true is it? I have stated MULTIPLE times to them that Anet uses player feedback in their process for class changes; how am I not communicating that I understand player feedback is important? I don't understand the issues? Someone did a good job describing that earlier in the thread. It was a good post, I agree with much of what they said. Even so, does how well I understand the issue change the reality of how Anet does class changes?
It's dismissive because there isn't an argument to be had here. Anet has a process for Class changes. We know some of the criteria they use to decide to make those changes. We know they have a target for 'good place' on classes because they describe things in that way to us. WE even know that player feedback can impact those changes. What is not reasonable is to think that the vast array of widely differing player opinions is part of what determines how Anet defines 'good place' targets for the classes.
To be fair, it's convincible players opinions HAS been a defining factor in 'good places' for classes ... and probably also why balance in this game has been a disaster for it's first 8 years of existence as well so ... If player opinion is part of that ... it probably SHOULDN'T.
You got triggered over a simple point I made at the very beginning then went down a rabbit hole of other stuff. I'm literally saying that your first comment was a bad premise as a response to those that came before you. Again I ask you to read the beginning of the thread so you fully grasp what you said.
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Just now, Obtena.7952 said:
Sure, it is my own words ... but it's not an argument.
So you can just tell those above you that their opinions don't factor in and that Anet says things are good and that's the end of it? Sorry that's not how this works lol. This is absurd.
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Just now, Obtena.7952 said:
No, what's faulty is believing I'm making an argument in the first place. There isn't anything to argue about if what is being said is simply the reality of the process Anet uses to make class changes.
It's your own words! lol
You said:
1. Do people play the class the amount Anet wants?
2. Does the class work the way Anet wants it?
If the answer is yes to those questions ... then we are in a 'good place'. Stop convincing yourself it's about you.
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1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:
OK
Well, I'm saying that Anet has a process that determines 'what is fine'. It's also not faulty to think that the goals come from Anet because customers are simply not going to have a set of comprehensive, non-conflicting goal for Anet to achieve. That's not my opinion. There is nothing to argue with me about here.
What's faulty is using that as an argument though. Can you seriously just go back to the beginning and read the comments leading up to your first comment? Anet's "process" is irrelevant to what those other people were saying and not only that, saying that everything is good if Anet's two conditions are met makes no sense.
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Just now, Obtena.7952 said:
Except it's not because the process considering what people say. We know it does because Anet has adjusted changed they made in the past based on it. Just not this time.
Forget whether they change or don't change based on feedback for a second, the point is that you saying things are fine simply because a company hits their goals and says so is what's faulty.
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Just now, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
You have better uses of your time, friend.
It's so strange though, it's such a simple point I made lol.
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Just now, Obtena.7952 said:
Because there isn't an argument to be had about a description of the process Anet has told us they use to make class changes.
And like I said from the start, that process is irrelevant to what the others were saying. It's a bad premise.
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Just now, Obtena.7952 said:
That doesn't make sense. my initial comments were not a specific reply to 'those saying they felt their feedback wasn't listened to'
That's simply the context you want to frame it to justify your issues with what I said.
What doesn't make sense is your initial argument, the only one I actually was here to discuss but you keep trying to change the subject.
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Just now, Obtena.7952 said:
I didn't make a response to 'those saying they felt their feedback wasn't listened to' with any intent to 'simply wave those people off by saying Anet decides what's in a good place' to begin with. What I DID do what describe the process Anet is using to determine if a class is in a good place because it's pretty apparent many people have some very unreasonable expectations about how the game should work based on how they think it should work and not based on the criteria that Anet has for that.
It's in your initial comments I have repeatedly quoted you over and over again. Why do you keep making me repost what you said?
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Just now, Obtena.7952 said:
Again, there is no argument here. I'm simply describing the fact that Anet has a process to determine if classes are in a good place, that has measureable criteria. That's not based on random opinions. That process measures the game.
Also, I said that player opinions do not determine what is good place. They can't because opinions vary. They literally CAN'T be a n objective determining factor for what a good place is for any class.
When you say that in response to people talking about feedback not being heard and complaining about issues, that's problematic and why it doesn't make sense.
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Just now, Obtena.7952 said:
Except there isn't an argument to lose here. What I said there is not the same as someone saying to dismiss a large portion of the player base and their feedback just because a gaming company says things are fine.
Whether Anet uses players opinions to determine if a class is in a good place or not is NOT the same thing as saying player opinions should be dismissed because Anet likes the current state of the class.
Your argument that a company saying things are great means they are and that any player feedback doesn't factor in to it is illogical. That's the one you lost I'm saying.
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Just now, Obtena.7952 said:
Right ... and in none of those quotes did I say to dismiss a large portion of the player base and their feedback just because a gaming company says things are fine.
I don't fall for the bait and switch when people are losing an argument. You said what you said. ""The fact is that players opinions do not determine if something is in a good place." and you said it has no bearing on whether it's in a good place or not.
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Just now, Obtena.7952 said:
No, that's not what I said.
I literally just quoted you two comments above.
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Just now, Obtena.7952 said:
Um, I don't get what you are talking about. You said:
Then quoted what I said as 'proof' I said that:
I'm simply telling you that what I said is NOT proof I am dismissing a large portion of the player base and their feedback just because a gaming company says things are fine.
Your words are in black and white. You said that player feedback doesn't factor in and that things are fine because Anet says so. This is a bad argument.
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1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:
Yup ... and none of those words says a large portion of the player base and their feedback should be dismissed because Anet says things are fine. 🤷♂️
You keep putting words in people's mouths and taking them out of your own lol.
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51 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:
No, I said their feedback doesn't determine if something is in a good place. That's not a judgement on whether player feedback is valuable or not.
"1. Do people play the class the amount Anet wants?
2. Does the class work the way Anet wants it?
If the answer is yes to those questions ... then we are in a 'good place'. Stop convincing yourself it's about you. "
"The fact is that players opinions do not determine if something is in a good place."
Your words.
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2 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
@Treacy.4067, my bother in Christ, Obtena never admits defeat, you are stuck in an endless loop. The only way to break the loop is to just step out of it.
This is bordering on the absurd at this point. It's like they don't realize people can see what they previously said and can see them changing their posts through editing.
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2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:
Except I didn't say a large portion of the player base and their feedback should be dismissed because Anet says things are fine. Therefore, there is no argument to be had in the first place.
Do I really have to quote your own words back to you...again?
Daily "Put Arc Divider Back" post until CmC notices or I get a suspension any% speedrun [Merged]
in Warrior
Posted
You mean the one confusion emote you yourself put? lol
Most people who agree already left anyway. What is annoying and unfun is dumbing down mechanics, homogenizing classes and just making it boring and less fun for the sake of numbers (this isn't just a warrior issue). Great games can do both.