[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yes, because that's ACTUALLY the content of concern here. 

If you just want to continue a discussion about being AFK with 28K DPS, then I'm going to say that it's really not a concern how much DPS mechanist does on the DPS golem or trivial engagements that where players can ignore the mechanics. 

No the skills and balance in general are the concern.  That's what this has all been about.  They don't have to fix the "encounters" as you call it.  Nothing changed with them.

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

Just now, Tails.9372 said:

If people are quitting "their preferred class" just because they want to bandwagon then their attachment to that class was never strong to begin with.

Wait are you seriously saying that people should just be loyal to their preferred class, no matter how out of balance it is?  That's nonsense and not a good argument against what this thread is about.  A healthy game thrives on having someone respectable balance for crying out loud.  And yes it is a balancing issue.

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well it is dishonest because the game isn't just about pressing 1 at an encounter and getting AFK levels of DPS. If someone CAN do that in an encounter, it's an issue with the encounter, not the build and it's certainly not unique to mechanist if they can. 

Again with this encounter business.  It's not dishonest that a mechanist can do 28k dps afk, that is the point.  You keep trying to blame encounters as if they all broke or something lol.

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

yes I do because the ability to AFK encounters isn't unique to mechanist. That means it's a encounter design problem. I have to keep saying it because you continue to ignore it. 

You can say it all you like, but it doesn't make it any less dishonest to refer to mechanist as AFK if you are going to complain about how much DPS it does. 

We've already discussed this.  What's not unique is the damage it's doing to which you didn't counter.  You tried to then switch to it being an "encounter" problem.  It's not dishonest to refer to afk mechanists when we're literally discussing mechanist afk damage.

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

because LI builds doing high DPS offends their ideas about how the game should work. That doesn't mean it's a problem.

I'm not suggesting encounters suddenly broke. The encounters were always that way. I agree there are some numbers that need to be adjusted on mechanist, but it's not for the absurd reasoning that it can AFK encounters in some unique way that other builds can't. 

If LI builds having reasonable DPS to integrate to teams is intended ... people are just going to have to pack up their tired ideas of how MMO's 'should' work. Exclusivity doesn't work. 

You keep saying blaming the encounters though. I don't know how many times I have to say this, I'm not referring to low intensity builds.  I'm referring to afk auto attacks.  There's nothing wrong with low intensity builds being in the game for accessibility reasons.  Get back to me when all classes can spec to 28k afk dps, not that I want that.

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure, but any encounter is more than just doing DPS .. if it's not, then being able to AFK it is an encounter problem, not a balance issue.

I don't get how YOU aren't incorporating the fact that a player has to engage with the encounter as well, affecting their DPS and knocking a massive hole in your 'AFK' claims.

You keep editing your posts.  So if it's an "encounter" problem why are people up in arms now all of a sudden?  You suggesting that somehow all of the "encounters" suddenly got broke is silly.  Where there's smoke there's fire.  They need to adjust mech's numbers.

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yes it is. So again, the player MUST engage with the team and the content to get the DPS people are having issues with here.

If the issue is that people can play AFK, that's an issue with the encounter. 

How do you not understand this?  First the game has multiple game modes, not just raids.  Second, afk and automation means you let the computer do the damage because you're not actively engaged.  The problem is the numbers for letting the computer do it are way too high.  And to compound the problem, compared to other classes, mech's auto attack is pulling in 28k which falls under balance.  You're skirting the issue here.

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

And this isn't AFK automated play. The player MUST engage with the team and the content to get the DPS people are having issues with here. 

AFK means away from keyboard.

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

17 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

The rifle AA is already weaker than what compatible weapon sets from other classes have.

It's not weaker lol.  It's doing over 28k damage afk.

 

19 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

There is no balancing issue here. 

Of course there's a balancing issue.  People are quitting their preferred class and going with mech because it, and end game groups and even open world are filled with them.  We're even seeing them be 9 of the top 10 dps.  It's not engineer either.  Balance is always an ongoing process but there's a reason why they're putting so much effort into it now and put so much of it in the roadmap.   What we're saying is that's something they need to take a look at.

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

12 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yup I get that point. Again, the players do engage with the content and their team in the encounter to get that damage, so it's not AFK. Continually describing this as part of the problem is a completely disingenuous way to describe it. 

Clearly, you are just one of these people that is unwilling to accept LI builds need to perform at a level that is equivalent to others to do enable low capability players to integrate.  

 

 

Again, I'm all for LI builds for people with disabilities and they should be in the game. I myself play with my left hand.  However afk automated play is not low intensity, it's no intensity.  And you're being naive if you think that this only affects raids.  

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm simply asking you to be clear about what you are talking about because one of those is relevant to the thread about rifle mech and the other isn't. The damage isn't a problem, EVEN if it's through automation, because a player can't get that DPS without engaging in the encounter.

Yes damage is the very problem we're discussing.  And afk by definition means lack of engagement. That's the whole point. 

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

So hold on, WHAT AA are you talking about? Mace or Rifle?

How do you not know what we're talking about by this point in the conversation?  I and others have posted numbers in this thread and yes, those are two listed.

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

28 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's right ... anyone can do that with ANY build. That's why it's an encounter issue if someone can AFK an encounter. The result (or balance) of a specific build has nothing to do with being able to AFK an encounter because ANY build can do it.  So when people say we need to nerf mechanist because it's an AFK build ... they are WRONG. 

Again, people MUST engage with the mechanics of the build and the encounter to achieve the top DPS of the build. That's always true, even if a build has a single button DPS rotation. 

They need to nerf mechanist because their auto attack is too strong.  As stated earlier, there are two issues at play here:  balance and having a class that can do ridiculous damage through automation.   And you hit the nail on the head when you said "Must engage with the mechanics of the build" because that's the problem, there is no engagement with automation. 

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

15 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

So let me get this straight .. YOU THINK the only build in the game that you can press 1 and walk away during an encounter is mechanist? .....that's a lack of experience on your part......Your limited experience

Don't make up stuff then assume things about someone based on your false premise.  Any class can technically press 1 and walk away and afk, but not all will have the same result.  So I'll say it again for you:  balance.  I'm not going to assume your experience with games in general but you seem oblivious to its intricacies and its importance in mmos.  

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

15 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, if people can AFK an encounter with their builds, it's not because the build allows it

That makes no sense.  The character must first be able to afk auto attack in their "build" (and I use that term very loosely) to be able to do so in the first place, regardless of boss mechanics.

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

On 8/7/2022 at 9:46 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

If someone is AFKing an encounter, that's NOT because their build allows them to...

Utter nonsense and again trying to change the narrative.  Two things: a build should never be so unbalanced that someone can afk and get such high dps.  And two, raids aren't the only type of content.  

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

19 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, I don't know what you mean ALL ... that's not what the data we have access to says. It's high, like 20ish% at the time I looked at it. I mean, that was never in question so .... what is the point you want to make here?

Other mech builds are meta? Yeah I know ... that was my point. People complaining about power rifle build by pointing to data that includes ALL mech build usage ... it's a farce. 

You tried saying that people were complaining about one build and I showed you it was not one build, and another argument you failed to counter was how groups are all filled with the same spec.  It goes to balance or lack thereof.  That's my point.   You have multiple afk builds for the same class that's literally automated.  It's not an LI build as you like to call it.  It's NI.  Computer generated or automated gameplay is not good for any mmo.

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The best part of people pointing out the high volume of mechs used in endgame team content to claim power rifle mechs need a nerf ...  when they ignore the fact that they aren't all power rifle users. 

So you're admitting that mechs are taking up all the spots? 

Anyway, it's not just rifle:

PMace 

 

 

BombKit  https://dps.report/clDW-20220802-220034_golem 

Flamethrower  https://dps.report/Bgni-20220802-220730_golem  

Tool Kit  https://dps.report/Bgni-20220802-220730_golem

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

7 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

There is no contradiction. My point is clear. The number of buttons someone pushes to get DPS is not a performance balancing issue. It's a consideration of accessibility. This isn't new; we have had LI builds since the beginning of this game. This is just one of the numerous ways the game accommodates a wide range of player capabilities. 

You contradicted yourself on balance.  And again, pushing ONE button then letting the computer do the rest is not about accessibility and it's not low intensity, it's no intensity.  It's automated gameplay akin to mindless mobile gaming.  

[What's one thing going in the right direction, and one thing that isn't?]

23 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

Nope, not at all.

You might want to talk to someone.

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

3 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

The more I read this, the more I feel like the people complaining dont actually want to play the game.

 

or maybe they do and that's why they're complaining. Look at the banner changes, lots of valid complaints on that and they fixed it.  Criticism isn't inherently bad.

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

There is no goalposts moved.  How many buttons someone pushes to get damage does not impact you, even if it's just 1. 

 

We were talking about balance and you contradicted yourself on that already.  Then you talked about accessibility which was debunked.  Now you want to talk about it not affecting you, well guess what, you're one person. Just because you think it doesn't affect you, doesn't mean everyone isn't as well. 

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

11 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

People playing AFK doesn't affect you. People playing mechs aren't AFK. You aren't going to sensationalize this to justify why it shouldn't exist. It's not a problem there are mechs everywhere. It's not a problem people are doing content with them.

lol "sensationalize," you're unable to counter the things I've said and moving the goalposts.  Balance affects everyone regardless of you sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting na na na.  Whether you like it or not, there's a lot of content where balance is vital and having it be this messed up will negatively affect the health of the game.  Or do you think the only things gw2 has to offer are afk farming and pressing 1 on world bosses? 

11 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

It's not a problem they are LI. We need builds like that in the game, despite the envious people that can't handle it. 

Yes it is a problem and it isn't low intensity, it's NO intensity lol.  And it's not even a build. People are criticizing this unbalance for good reason and not because of envy, that just shows how naive you are to this situation.  There are mech mains admitting this is broke so there goes that idea.

[What's one thing going in the right direction, and one thing that isn't?]

On 8/2/2022 at 3:57 PM, Funky.4861 said:

I've disliked the portrayals of the Charr and Norn since i started playing back in 2012; anet went in too hard with the stereotyping right at the start.

What i'm referring to re: ideology is the usage of feminism/misandry and other far-left thinking in creating the social fabrics of the game world and its storytelling. It's more subtle in the core game (but still noticeable if you have your analytical skills engaged) and it's constantly reinforced through npc interactions, becoming more prominent with each expansion. Let's pick a couple of obvious examples: Queen Jennah and Logan, and Crecia and Rytlock. If you gender-swapped them whilst retaining their dialogue and its tonality, would those relationships be as acceptable as what we have?

My favourite mentor in the personal story arc was Sieran and i think my favourite character in the game was Faolain, perhaps because of how males are ubiquitously written as always lacking, flawed or undesirable. The only likeable males which come to mind (off the top of my head) are Trahearne (borderline, he is a gloryhog) Knut Whitebear (largely irrelevant) and Gorrik/Blish (minor but poignant moments).

The racial power-structures are mainly female-dominated benevolent dictatorships, apart from the asura (socialist) and charr (interesting to note that they gave the only male malevolent lead to the beast race and heavily emphasised its' brutality). The norn are the only race with a male benevolent leader and they are mainly sitting on their hands. If we gender-swapped those characters, would they be as acceptable as what we have?

When you see the bias, you realise how bad it is.

You've got to be kidding me lol.

[Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.]

10 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You can say it does ... you have to explain how because I can play that game too ... it doesn't. How many buttons someone presses to get X DPS has NO impact on how I choose to play the game.

It does sorry.  It's been explained all over the place, it's not rocket science so not sure how you're still not understanding.  AFK gameplay is not gameplay at all.  There's a reason why mechs are all over the place, there's a reason why people are rushing to do content with them because they think it will get a nerf soon (and rightfully so) and there's a reason why mechs are filling groups over other classes.  It's balance is out of whack. The old "it doesn't affect me so that must mean everyone else too" argument is nonsense as well.  

You also said " As much as you want to argue this is a balance issue, it's not, then went on to say "Again, you claim there is a 'balance aspect' .. you're right." So yes it's a balance issue.  One class shouldn't be auto attacking 28k with no input, it's not good for the game.  And again no it's not an accessibility issue.  Those types of numbers should not come from automation.  A person should be playing the game not the computer.