Roquen.5406

You had unlimited before...now you have three...and if you want 1 for each mode, you have to pay for an additional three just have to three...otherwise everytime you swap between modes you have to recreate templates or just manually click and drag.

Buddy—Idk what to tell you. It doesn’t just lock the template in forever once you finish building it—you can change it any time you want (except in combat of course). It just automatically loads up when you select it. The fact that you side-step that we had unlimited build templates before is just baffling. Goodbye.

You know the templates aren’t locked in right? Hence why I said “You can still ignore the templates all together and the game will still function the exact same way”? You can still change the equipment / traits / sigils / whatever, same as always—now you just have more ways to instantly swap. You can't though...you had unlimited before, now you have three. If you are served steak that's properly cooked with a side of vegetables and mashed potatoes but you choose not to eat it because you only happen to like chicken... that doesn't mean there is no food in front of you to eat. For you to pretend that there is no food to eat when there's a perfectly good steak in front of you makes no sense. There's food there, you are making a choice not to use it.

I'm guessing it's deliberate since they can offer 3 "free" templates by taking something away and giving it back. Then they can try to sell you on the "additional" slots... just goes to show how low Anet is willing to stoop.

They’re adding a feature to the game that was never there to begin with, actually—which you have the option of buying more of, if you need it. There was a feature that was unlimited, it was free and good to go. You don't have to like it but it's dishonest to pretend that option was not there. Thing is right now we have 3 templates already, 1 pvp, 1 wvw, 1 pve. After the patch they are taking those away and putting them back in the form of their version of templates. Then if you want more, you can have to buy 3 and that's it, you can't buy anymore. It's kind of shady but oh well. It wasn’t a feature, actually—it was a third party addon. What they’re adding in the game now is new in Guild Wars 2. But you can read all about that discussion here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/88933/i-want-to-keep-using-arc-build-templates/p1 They’re adding a feature to the game that was never there to begin with, actually—which you have the option of buying more of, if you need it. Actualy, if you play wvw, pvp and pve you already have 3 gear slots right? Well, now you have only 2 :D Actually, the feature is an addition—absolutely nothing is being removed from the game to make this possible. You want to not use it at all and 100% ignore it? You can absolutely do that, and the game will work the exact same way. So no—if anything you’re just gaining in-game options. “ :D ”You aren't funny at all, in fact it's quite frustrating when people like you pretend something doesn't exist just because you don't like it. It's 100% dishonest. Separate from that... You are also seemingly ignoring the fact that right now IN GAME you have 3 templates. When you zone into PvE, you get one set of skills/build/armor/etc, when you zone into PvP you get another, when you zone into WvW you get a third one. That is THREE. With the patch THAT WILL NO LONGER HAPPEN. What is going to happen is they are taking those 3 away and giving them back to you in the form of templates. So that's 3 already spoken for. After that you can buy 3 more max...

They’re adding a feature to the game that was never there to begin with, actually—which you have the option of buying more of, if you need it. There was a feature that was unlimited, it was free and good to go. You don't have to like it but it's dishonest to pretend that option was not there. Thing is right now we have 3 templates already, 1 pvp, 1 wvw, 1 pve. After the patch they are taking those away and putting them back in the form of their version of templates. Then if you want more, you can have to buy 3 and that's it, you can't buy anymore. It's kind of shady but oh well.

Oh...so it's worse than I thought...they are taking away what we have, giving it back to us and making us pay for three additional slots max. Meh oh well.

Hi, just a quick question about build templates since I've been hearing some things. Currently, if you play all three modes you get one loadout for PvE, another for PvP and a third for WvW. However, I am hearing that once templates release the three modes will no longer have different loadouts. If that is the case then you would be forced to use your first three templates to get back a loadout for each mode. The next three that you can buy would be up to you. My question is, is this true? If so, why? Because now you can realistically only have 3 additional templates which you would have to pay for. If you only play one mode then I guess this would not affect you. Anyone have any insight, is there any truth to the above?

There isn't a problem with that .. there are LOTS of places to buy bread if you didn't like that one. Again, you pretend like this customer/business relationship is somehow flawed after thousands of years of being used ... so what Anet is doing is flawed or unreasonable. That's not the case. Anyways ... the reasonable price seems to be in the 400-600 gems range. What happens when a business refuses to learn from past mistakes? Lots of bad things .. but what is Anet doing here that they haven't done before? Nothing. This isn't the first time we have seen these kinds of features offered in this way. As much as you try, there isn't anything exceptional here. It's VERY standard practice. If what they have done in the past is representative of 'past mistakes' ... then I hope Anet keeps making them, because it works based on thousands of years of business practice and the 7 years this game has been in service. If you are going to argue that there are all these mistakes made .. then you are going to have to do that in the face of 7 years of Anet developing this game. That's a contradiction you have no explanation for ... other than you are wrong and that the mistakes (however many or severe) aren't as game destroying as you would like us all to believe. An argument based on fearmongering is not going to be more compelling than the history of this game and Anet doing things that work for them. The worst part is that as much as you spin on about how much you know ... you completely ignore the reality of what is right in front of you. No, there isn't some mistake being made here; this is VERY typical approach for offering this kind of a feature, PERIOD. Alright, now I see why others avoid conversing with you. You side-step every point made towards you and nitpick in a way that you try to personally attack people. So this will be my last post to you. I have no idea why you blindly defend a company without reason...However, there is a reason they recently lost 144 employees, and more recently a lot of other devs both new and old. Yes, turnover in general is normal but not like this. You talk about “this” as a typical approach but the reality is that most other games come with some form of templates built in. They definitely don’t get added in 7 years late behind a triple pay wall - that is not typical. Your posts are fabricated with YOUR opinion spouted as truth. I never once argued that they shouldn’t make money, I only spoke about how they are making that money. At no point have you ever tried addressing me on these points. You simply repeat in 100 different ways that businesses make money. Something everyone here is well aware of. I’m also baffled you hope Anet keeps repeating past mistakes because if they actually do, eventually you’ll be posting here wondering where everyone went. I guess at that point you can make alt accounts and have discussions with yourself or something, idk. Best of luck to you.

There isn't a problem with that .. there are LOTS of places to buy bread if you didn't like that one. Again, you pretend like this customer/business relationship is somehow flawed after thousands of years of being used ... so what Anet is doing is flawed or unreasonable. That's not the case. Anyways ... the reasonable price seems to be in the 400-600 gems range. What happens when a business refuses to learn from past mistakes? Sure, I can charge a billion dollars for whatever I want. Does that mean it's a good idea to? You can split templates into 3 separate pay walls, per character and have 5% of the playerbase participate. Or you can release templates in a similar fashion to the way Delta had them, simple templates without the extra storage with 1 pay wall, per slot per account and have maybe 30-50% of the playerbase participate. Which one do you think would leave more satisfaction for the customers? If you are thinking long term, the more customers you keep satisfied the more they are likely to stay, invest, and even bring in others to do the same. Sure, you can price-gouge every step of the way but is that really what you should be doing?

Why did you side-step my responses to you and change the subject? Where did I say Anet is wrong? I am saying in this case you are wrong. You are stating your opinion as fact even when Anet doesn't agree with you. You are holding a stance that Anet does not hold. But to answer you, I have no problem with them charging for things. In fact most people don't. The problem people have is HOW they charge or implement things.

When you register an account to play this game, you sign an agreement that as long as you are compliant with Anet's rules and guidelines you can play the game. When you break those you get banned. So once you decide to buy gold from a third party seller, cheat, hack, share accounts, your agreement is null and void and they can and will ban you. Does this mean you are only tolerated the entire time you play the game? This situation is no different. When Anet puts in a new build you are forced to log out to update a new build. If you don't, you can't play with other players, join a new instance, have them join you, you can't leave the area, or do things where there have been updates until you log out and patch the game. Arc having to update when new patches hit is no different.

That doesn't change what I said ... it's a tolerated 3rd party 'whatever you want to call it'. It wasn't supported by the game. I think you are mistaken. There were two developers that made a similar addon. One had his addon banned because he refused to remove aspects that were not considered appropriate for the game. The other, Delta, worked with Chris Cleary to make sure everything was Kosher, for lack of a better word. The addon was green-lit for use. However, they were not offering official support if you ran into problems while using the addon. So, in the event it magically broke your game, that's on you. That is what that disclaimer tells you. It's clear you have something against the addon, which is fine because you can have your opinion but don't spin it as fact.

Are you some sort of anti mod purist? Do you not realize that Arc is sanctioned by ANET? Of course Legendary gear (not just armor I will remind you[trinkets are a bigger problem as you can only make one of each per account]) is going to play nice with templates. What exactly is your issue with the prospect of a shared armory slot for gems? Is that somehow offensive to you? I understand you may not have direct experience with Arc templates as they were, or may have some inherent aversion to addons and mods as a matter of some strange principal. But that shouldn't make you an enemy of FUN. I have fun experimenting with builds using legendary gear. That process would be MUCH better facilitated by an account wide armory, I am willing to pay 10k+ gems for that feature. That's my opinion, you have given me zero reason to think I am wrong. I don't want your sympathy. I want you to consider how I like to play the game and accept that there is at least some legitimacy in doing so.Arc was TOLERATED by Anet and that still doesn't change what I said. I have no issue with the prospect of a shared armory other than the fact that we aren't getting that feature; we are getting templates. I guess I'm just more grounded in what is real than imagining what I want is the best thing for Anet to do and never getting it. I don't see an issue if some functionality of one game element doesn't work with the functionality of another. You can choose and it cost you nothing because you already do it. I have the same issue with all the character slots I have full to 'swap builds'. The only problem here is that you have grown to rely on a 3rd party hack ... lesson learned.Can you tell me where either of the above statements in bold are true? This is from Chris Cleary back when he green-lit Delta's Addons: You called the addon, "TOLERATED" and a "3rd party hack". Where does the developer state this? Do you know better than the Anet's own employee? Because by his own words Chris Cleary, was more than just okay with the addon. He even welcomed others to reach out to him if they wanted to create more addons in the future. In case you want to harp on the last line, that is simply a disclaimer that pretty much anything you ever use or buy has. Much like if you open up your own product (let's say your TV and you break the warranty seal, the company is not liable for any damage that you may cause). Apologies for the edits, was having formatting issues.

No, the point of the poster that was the original part of this that I was replying to was being snide and thought they were being cheeky versus making an argument that the tool that is being designed in game could use improvement. I am not saying I disagree with you about practices and how they impact peoples feelings on things, the fact that anyone would make a post shows its impactful. I am not saying I am against people having more tools though you seem to want to keep painting me there. I am against people saying that others wouldn't benefit from the new tools and that Delta's tool was only thing from keeping this game from dieing. I am all for the good posts where people are making their case for where and how they could use something closer to Arc than what Anet might release, but you can do it with a constructive point and its more convincing to others that way. Fair enough. I think most people were expecting Anet's templates to be comparable to Delta's. And I guess their expectations are what is creating this reaction, which reminds us all to always temper your expectations. Hope for the best, expect the worst kind of thing. For the more hardcore players, I wouldn't say it's impossible for this to be the final straw for them. Look at guilds like SC, they spend hours, days, time and energy, to create builds/guides/rotations/videos/etc...for almost every facet of this game. Every time there is a balance update, we get new benchmarks from them. What this does, is act as a resource for others looking to get into different modes. That is their own time spent because of their passion for the game and you can imagine how much work had to have gone into that. So it's plausible that players akin to these did have 30+ builds that they use. Now they can only use 6 and maybe for them it's just not worth it anymore. When we lose those people like that, we lose additional resources for players. And I don't necessarily think it's a good thing. I think there's another separate issue as well, in the way the game is being monetized to an almost mobile-gaming level. Which I personally don't think is beneficial to the health of the game.

But you are not siding with the ToS. On page 6 Voltekka has a quote from Chris Cleary that explains how and why Delta's dps meter AND templates were green-lit - yes green-lit, as in good to go. Are you telling me that you know the ToS better than Anet's own employees? If so that's ludicrous. The reality is that you are using your opinion as fact, despite being given evidence to the contrary. So once again, why do you keep harping on points that are not true? Also, the point of templates was a QoL update. Not only did Anet's version really miss the mark but players are left with no alternative as Delta is no longer usable. Once again, how were you hurt by other players having a nice QoL feature that would let them swap gear/builds with ease? Why are you so against other players being able to have all their dungeon, fractal, raid, pvp, wvw, open world, experimental builds as templates? Do you think manually swapping builds every time you want to do something different is, "challenging content"? If that's how the game keeps up its challenge...then I think there is something entirely wrong with the design. I'm sorry but what? Raids have certain requirements, some have dps checks, some have mechanic checks, some a bit of both, etc. People are asking for X comp not to be toxic, but they are asking for that because that is what you need to complete the encounter. If everyone ran Power, Vitality, Toughness you wouldn't complete raid bosses, especially not with the average player. There ARE DPS checks in raids and having the appropriate gear allows you to do that. If the boss requires an average of 10k dps per person and everyone is pulling 4k dps...the boss will not die. If you need boon uptime to allow dps to hit the threshold...how will they do that if the chrono is running pvt, power, or some off-brand set? If the healer needs X amount of healing to keep everyone alive on top of boon support, how are they going to do that in a power set? How is ANY of that toxic? The point the poster was making is that Anet is making decisions that are seemingly driving their own player-base away. Despite how good the game is at its core, people can only put up with so much before they have enough. I.e., WvW waiting for years for changes, PvP waiting for years for updates, PvE updates coming out slower or smaller scale than before. Once again, the point you are missing is Anet keeps making decisions that drive the player-base away. Templates are just another thing to throw into the pile. It's not one thing, it's a series of events and eventually one will be the straw that breaks the camels back.

This game is buy to play, not free, and I'd gladly buy more expansions if they delivered repeatable content with them. I'm all for paying to support development of the game. Right now I feel like we're just paying to support more things to pay for on the store. Where's my playable content other than LS? @witcher.3197 said: This game is free to play.I guess this sums up the state of the game. The game added free to play in 2015 - Free Accounts became available on August 29, 2015. This comes with many limited features. The veterans have paid for the base game, HoT, and PoF. So you are being rather dishonest when you say the game is F2P. And once again the game isn't sub free because they wanted to do the playerbase a favor. The sub model would not work for them. Someone behind the scenes crunched the numbers and it was decided B2P with a supplemental in-game shop is what would be sustainable. People in general have no problem supporting the game, they understand work goes into developing a product. It's not what Anet is doing but how they are doing it. For example, take two parents from different families attempting to support their family. The parents from family A - go to work 9-5, come home and study, so they can get some degree or vocational education in order provide more for their family. The parents from family B - go to work 9-5, decide it's not enough and they worry for their family, so they sell drugs or steal to provide more for their family. You can argue that this is a more extreme example but it is a plausible scenario. In the situation above, it's admirable that both parents want to provide for their family but HOW they go about doing that is important. And I think that is the issue here. In the past Anet has made this mistake with mounts, and other things. If they instead released monetized templates that provided the same level of support that Delta had or that wasn't so limiting, the majority of the people would be fine with it. Instead they split templates into three sections and are trying to monetize each one of them, while also limiting the functionality of the templates themselves (six max vs. unlimited before with an add-on - and this was free). So they are paying to get a lot less and it's done in a way which leaves a sour taste in players mouth.

Oof, nevermind--your agenda's clear now. Interest loss, but good luck to ya! That's rather dismissive of you but best of luck.

I mean templates are supposed to create an efficient and easy way to swap gear/builds. In the very quote from Mike Z: Mike Z: Dedicated players also now have more flexibility in customizing their builds with the introduction of legendary runes and sigils, allowing you to create the perfect gear stats for any situation, and this leads to perhaps our biggest quality of life improvement for these dedicated fans. Character build and gear templates are coming to Guild Wars 2 in the near future. This means that players will be able to easily share their builds and switch between different loadouts with ease. You'll be equipped with the most appropriate gear for whatever activity you're doing. Whether you're showing off in Lion's Arch, optimizing for raids, or getting ready for the next big clash in World verses World, you'll have full control over your character's kit. All of these content updates, features, and quality of life improvements continue to be given for free with no monthly subscription fee. And yet, Anet's templates do not really provide that. If you have a few builds or only play one of the three modes, then sure maybe it's okay. But if you multi-class or invest heavily in at least one mode, then you are now paying per character, per slot for each of these things. So not only are the templates, a QOL feature not free but they are also very limiting. Do you see the issue here? Yes, people are upset but that doesn't mean their points are invalid. There are great points from both sides of the conversation.

You playing this game was never a right, it is a privilege. Have you read the terms? Anet owns everything you play and can take it away or ban you at a moments notice if they deem it so. None of it is yours, stop being entitled to have the game the way you see fit. The templates were officially supported, that's why the other guy that released a dps meter/addon was banned. Because he was not compliant with Anet. Delta worked WITH Anet to make sure it was good to go. The red at the top is a DISCLAIMER, the same you will see in any terms you read almost anywhere. And like I said before, it's the same thing you read when you created an account with Anet. It's also the same thing when you decide to open up your phone/console/computer/tv/etc. You break the warranty and so the company isn't liable if something goes wrong. That doesn't mean you can't decide to do it on your own or it's illegal. He agreed to the terms so he could put the add-on into the game. He's removing it because that's what he has to do. Once again...it's not about entitlement. The new implementation is magnitudes worse than a third party add-on designed by one person. People would be okay with the templates if they weren't losing so much functionality. You keep side-stepping this. What? It was there for what, two years? How was that "never truly there"? Once again, you playing the game is a privilege because Anet can take that away from you at any point. Thanks to Anet's leniency you are allowed to log in and play each day. You should be thankful they don't charge you per log in, per char because they can do that if they truly wish. Do you see how this is such ridiculous thinking on your part? Why are you so against people having different options? What harm did these options cause you?

First, Delta worked closely with an Anet dev to make sure it was good to go. It wasn't barely passable (clearly you have a thing against third party software that benefits others for whatever reason). Do you also complain about Taco, DPS Meter, etc? If you don't like it don't use it but don't harp on others for using them because they are beneficial. "So they were bypassing the challenge of beating content..."...I mean really? Do you have Exotic or Ascended gear? Why are you bypassing challenging content by giving yourself stronger stats? Do you use a proper power, condi, tank, boon, any appropriate gear combination? Why are you bypassing the challenge? Why not buy uncommon items off the TP at random so you don't bypass the "challenge"? Do you see how ridiculous your stance is? People aren't complaining because Arc is being removed. They are complaining because Arc is being removed AND it's replacement is MUCH more limiting AND it has 3 gated costs per character. Even if someone WANTED to pay for everything they can't...because they are limited to 6 templates per char. Do you understand? Or are you just being stubborn to be stubborn? As for your last point about comparing this to cheating? Once again, where is your head at? How is using templates to HELP make things efficient and help other groups and experiment even remotely in the same universe as cheating. Here's the deal, I don't actually use templates or Taco or any other addons but I can still see how useful they are to the people that want them. Just because you or I may not find it fun to min/max, play every role, doesn't mean we should stop others from being able to do so. For example, think about all the training runs that happen. The templates allowed people to quickly and efficiently swap builds/gear to adjust for the group's needs. Now people will not be able to do so as efficiently. So instead of players swapping quickly, they may have to wait X amount of time for players to properly swap over. Is that really what you call challenging content? Waiting an additional 5-10 minutes for people to manually drag/drop/change traits/gear/sigils/armor/weapons because they can only have a fraction of the templates they used to have? That's challenging content to you? Not the encounters themselves? Or the way people try to make it fun by trying to clear in unique ways? Why are you so against people having different options available to them?

I had the worst placements I've ever had this season. Felt as if 7/10 matches had someone not log in, afk straight out the gate, or "get angry" because they ran 1-3 into a fight and then died almost immediately. They promptly afk and just type in base the rest of the match. I can't tell anymore if someone is throwing deliberately, just getting angry, a bot, or trolling. It feels more often than not you are fighting the queue to get put on a team with people that actually want to play, the rest of the time is filled with I don't know what. I think I ended 3-7 or 2-8, somewhere around 1100 and am slowing climbing my way back up to P1. Currently at 1430-1440ish? I know I'm not great at the game but for most seasons I've hovered G3-P1, very occasionally peaking at P2. I used to end placements right around P1 but last 3 seasons I've had bad placements. Most likely me just getting worse at the game but /shrug. I do remember specifically the first match of the season put me against 2 top 10 players (they weren't duo IIRC but they were top tier). We had a thief that went for lord 30 seconds into the game and somehow sat in the enemy base not actually doing anything. Eventually one of the enemy team walked over and killed them. Then we got farmed the rest of the match. The very next match, my side had an afk from the start. The biggest difference for a while now though, is that I feel what I do does not have much of an impact anymore. It seems the matches are mostly decided before the game even begins. I used to feel that I could kind of tell, "Oh I fucked up really bad here, that probably cost us, or oh I'm not playing so well to complement the team", etc... Now I feel no matter how well or poorly I do, the match will play out either in winning or losing streaks, until some condition is met, then it repeats. I would like to see less gaming of the system and more punishment for people abusing it. It's frustrating to see things like people duo queuing as X classes, only to see them swap last second to those classes counters, to have an easy match-up. I would prefer no class swapping once queued in (do other games allow class swapping once you've seen the match-up?) but I guess that would require a more balanced matchmaker to not sway one side or another. Or known players afking for many seasons and them still having access to ranked. Maybe you don't want to ban them entirely but at least ban them from ranked or something?

Why do you feel bad for a business? They are here to make money while doing something they are "passionate" about. They do that by providing a product that their customers enjoy. When their customers no longer enjoy said product, they spend less time with the product and in this case eventually leave. It's just business, right? If they choose not to learn from past mistakes and they keep bleeding customers and in turn lose money, that is on them. And I think that's the big issue here, they really don't practice what they preach. They say they listen but the things they keep releasing and "promising" are not what the players, content creators, partners, and the community as a whole...are asking for. For whatever reason it seems that they keep missing the mark. Now you can say, "well you don't know how difficult it is" or "go develop your own game and then you'll see". But I don't need to know or do either of those things to understand that a product should deliver on what it promises. A job should be done well no matter what it is. I don't need to know how to build a spaceship to understand that a spaceship blowing up in orbit is a bad thing. The thing that is most frustrating to ME is that people ask the players to be "grateful" for what they get. People too often settle for less. The onus should be on Anet to provide a product that really fires on all cylinders. Remember, if we don't like the game we leave and find one that better suits our needs. But if their game shuts down or ceases to be profitable, they lose their jobs. You can look at the recent lay-offs that happened and yes you can have empathy for them but remember the truth is that the lay-offs happened in large part of Anet's own doing. They released expansions and siphoned off a good portion of their core teams to work on side projects. So you leave a skeleton team to do the work of a much larger team and then you wonder what happened when things blow up in your face? Would you expect any different from your job? It's fine to branch out and work on new projects, maybe a new IP, maybe GW3, maybe GWMobile or whatever other project(s) they may have been working on. But you shouldn't do so at the expense of your bread and butter. Especially if you are telling everyone it's your passion project, yet you keep neglecting it. It seems to me a lot like mismanagement of their product as a whole and until they fix that or whatever issues keep plaguing them, these things will come up time and time again. They don't give us episodes for free because they are nice, they do it because it's sustainable for them. A large majority of people wouldn't pay for content every 4 months that provides them with 2 hours of LS and then achievements/a few items to grind for. But they will keep coming back to game that they can drop in and out of casually. Anet knows this and so their money comes from initial Box Sales + the Cash Shop. If they knew they could charge for each episode and retain their player-base, they would. I had no expectations for this announcement because of Anet's track record but for whatever reason they decided to hype up an event as if some big new news was coming. But then they announced something that the players have already known, along with some other vague things, and merchandise. Of course the player-base is going to be frustrated. If Anet needed to do this for their for their morale, then fine, that's great. But don't say this was what the players have been asking for because if that's what they truly believe, then they haven't actually been listening.

That's why other games usually have more than one mode within the mode (Such as 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 5v5, or larger battleground type maps/modes like 8v8, 10v10, 15v15, etc). Spvp, really only has one mode at this point, the other two they attempted and scrapped rather quickly, rather than trying to work on them. I only pointed out leaderboards because that was apparently important/content for Anet (They tried to do the same with fractals but the scrapped that leaderboard entirely).