Legatus.3608

The simple fact is that people have good days and bad days for a variety of reasons. Your opponents are only a small part. Build changes, mental and physical state, network stability etc are all big factors in the type of day you have. Odds are if you're losing a bunch of games in a row it's probably NOT the matches that are causing it. It COULD be win trading or hacking or alt accounts, though.

Basically you beat a mesmer by playing another mesmer and being better at it

A single thief has the mobility and killing power to get all the +1s, decaps, and secondary objective steals by himself. Having two thieves will just result in the thieves getting in each other way since both thieves will be competing against each other for +1s. In other words there is extremely brutal diminishing returns for each thief you add to your team. This isn't just a thief thing either as it is always suboptimal to take multiples of any class, the only exception to the rule being those rare cases where you have a build that can fill multiple roles effectively. Except that those "rare cases" aren't rare at all. OP classes like necro and mesmer were always viable to have an extra if not several (ppl winning ATs with 4 mesmer). Usually two of any class is acceptable in a typical plat game except for thief.

I showed you the build in a real damage scenario and your showed me some obvious meme garbage. Who is right? Really do you see people on these forums complaining about wvw thieves?

Well the thing is they completely destroyed sd as a spec and dp, which isn't even meta right now, also took some solid targeted nerfs. This is on a class where you queue for pvp, get in and first thing you see is "two thief? Switch or we lose" When I can get into a game and not hear that, thief will deserve nerfs Until then idgaf how much these forums cry, the class didn't need nerfs What are you talking about lol. The patch is going to have very little effect on thief's potency in the meta right now. It's just not going to be as easy to spam 3 on S/D core and kill people or nuke things with the AA chain on MH dagger. The current meta S/D is generally easymode. Long-term, it might have some adverse consequences when things change but as of now S/D is absolutely over-performing for how safe it is. D/P isn't very good because of FB, Scourge, and Holo just being outright overpowered. S/D is not going to be viable after this patch. Here's a list of things affecting specifically SD meta build:More than doubled cd on panic strikeMore than doubled cd on instant reflexesMore than doubled cd on pain responseUpper hand cd increased by 66%AA damage reducedRoll for initiative increased from 35 to 40sLS damage reduced If you can look at this list and say this build will still be viable next patch IDK if we will ever agree. Understandably some of these were targetted by the "passives" nerf which was across the board, but I don't know of any other classes which relied on them so heavily as thief. Thief isn't one of those classes that survives by using all the abilities on its bar - thief has a low HP pool and relied on dodges and passives to survive. Other classes just use a different trait and slot a different utility - that won't work for thief, specifically won't work for SD after this patch. DP was also slightly targetted with a similar AA nerf, pulmonary impact (why? this isnt passive and DP wasnt even in the meta), and the aforementioned panic strike. And DP wasn't even really in the meta last patch. And again, I am tired of seeing "2 thief gg rq" every game. What I do think we will see, if anything, as a meta build for thief in the next patch is condi thief and/or pistols thieves. Maybe rifle will get a chance now - I still feel like the build sucks but supposedly a guy made top 10 using rifle last season and they didn't much do anything to rifle. IDK. But god forbid you have two thieves on your team, kitten if that happens the world might as well explode. As for PVE I have no idea, but these all look like targetted PVP nerfs. The lack of D/P buffs and nerfs to PI have almost nothing to do with the S/D nerfs which was what you initially mentioned so this sounds more like an emotional response to the thief getting nerfed than an analytical one or response to my post. The nerfs feel targeted because they are targeted. S/D core acro is a bit of an over-performer right now. That's not to say other specs like FB and Scourge aren't, and they also need some nerfs, but the current build is not challenging to play and super strong. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about, you get two thief in the same game and everyone quits out of the gate, but somehow the spec is "overperforming". If it was overperforming it would be viable to have 2. What is thief doing exactly that it's TOO GOOD at? It's going to be good at decaps and +1 regardless because of sb5 and the fs/ls is a counter to one specific build, that NEEDS to have a counter and otherwise the spec excels at nothing besides dodging a lot. Which is easily countered. But I'm the one who isn't thinking analytically, right. It hard-counters firebrand on-point and FS/LS is literally spam 3 to win half the time. People getting salty about having two thieves are either dumb or the thieves aren't playing to counter FB. The guy who played DE in top10 said he preferred having a second thief on the team, btw. You're going to have to do better than "everyone who plays pvp is dumb" to get a real response out of me. This isn't isolated cases this is every single game where there is 2 thief across the board in any bracket. The DE guy might prefer it because he's playing a thief that isn't a thief, but his teammates most likely do not. Oh and, tell your FB buddies to learn how to walk sideways since that's about all it takes to avoid damage from spam 3. I mean if the thieves aren't playing to counter the FB which is only countered by thief... then yeah they kind of deserve it to be honest. They kind of deserve what? I don't understand what you're saying here. But about flanking strike, try this: get on a thief and your buddy on a firebrand and have your buddy walk to his right (Your left) and start spamming FS and tell me how many you connect with. No dodges, just walking. If both thieves are going to play D/P and try to fight on point they deserve to be flamed a little lol. You can get around that issue with some camera angle changes or by simply de-targeting if the first one fails and tweaking your camera angle without a target to path into the FB because FS is a single-target cleaving hitbox skill so it'll always land when used this way. It's still a double-dodge even when it fails which is also generally okay. I know it's WvW into an ele, but FS/LS does some seriously disgusting damage as you can see from getting a few kills when running back to help defend smc here, so saying the nerf is coming from nowhere is a bit silly considering just how much damage this fairly safe skill can do. It doesn't matter what you're doing or planning to do though. As soon as someone sees there are 2 thieves on their team they will tell one to change to a different class before the game starts. This isn't new stuff here, I don't know why we're talking about it. And yes, you can manually aim FS but it's the only skill from what I've seen that has such a weird animation requiring you to do that on a targetted attack. I've played all the other classes except rev and I've never seen an animation that weird breaking the auto aim like that. Aiming issues aside, I'm exposing you on that image: It's total shit and representative of nothing. Under the circumstances you're showing I could probably get auto attacks from a warrior to crit for 17k. You really obviously had a buddy sit there on his ele wearing no armor and had friends stack up vuln on him while you had another buddy stack might and other buffs on your own character and stand there while you swing at him. He obviously had no buffs as well which is pretty suspicious as well, since I pretty much never actually get the damage bonus - you ALWAYS steal a boon even on classes with relatively little boon uptime or spam, they still have something. Using 3 signets was a dead giveaway and I question whether you were even wearing the marauder gear you're advertising from that picture. Here's a video of sindrener in you know, A REAL PVP GAME doing the combo on enemies: He gets 2137 on the first hit and 5180 on the second, both crits vs a thief in a normal pvp game. You somehow buffed that to 17k, that's a meme boys. Welcome to memetown. BTW, the damage scaling on flanking strike is exactly the same as a normal sword auto attack, it's actually less damage than the third hit in the AA chain. This entire conversation is a joke honestly.

Well the thing is they completely destroyed sd as a spec and dp, which isn't even meta right now, also took some solid targeted nerfs. This is on a class where you queue for pvp, get in and first thing you see is "two thief? Switch or we lose" When I can get into a game and not hear that, thief will deserve nerfs Until then idgaf how much these forums cry, the class didn't need nerfs What are you talking about lol. The patch is going to have very little effect on thief's potency in the meta right now. It's just not going to be as easy to spam 3 on S/D core and kill people or nuke things with the AA chain on MH dagger. The current meta S/D is generally easymode. Long-term, it might have some adverse consequences when things change but as of now S/D is absolutely over-performing for how safe it is. D/P isn't very good because of FB, Scourge, and Holo just being outright overpowered. S/D is not going to be viable after this patch. Here's a list of things affecting specifically SD meta build:More than doubled cd on panic strikeMore than doubled cd on instant reflexesMore than doubled cd on pain responseUpper hand cd increased by 66%AA damage reducedRoll for initiative increased from 35 to 40sLS damage reduced If you can look at this list and say this build will still be viable next patch IDK if we will ever agree. Understandably some of these were targetted by the "passives" nerf which was across the board, but I don't know of any other classes which relied on them so heavily as thief. Thief isn't one of those classes that survives by using all the abilities on its bar - thief has a low HP pool and relied on dodges and passives to survive. Other classes just use a different trait and slot a different utility - that won't work for thief, specifically won't work for SD after this patch. DP was also slightly targetted with a similar AA nerf, pulmonary impact (why? this isnt passive and DP wasnt even in the meta), and the aforementioned panic strike. And DP wasn't even really in the meta last patch. And again, I am tired of seeing "2 thief gg rq" every game. What I do think we will see, if anything, as a meta build for thief in the next patch is condi thief and/or pistols thieves. Maybe rifle will get a chance now - I still feel like the build sucks but supposedly a guy made top 10 using rifle last season and they didn't much do anything to rifle. IDK. But god forbid you have two thieves on your team, kitten if that happens the world might as well explode. As for PVE I have no idea, but these all look like targetted PVP nerfs. The lack of D/P buffs and nerfs to PI have almost nothing to do with the S/D nerfs which was what you initially mentioned so this sounds more like an emotional response to the thief getting nerfed than an analytical one or response to my post. The nerfs feel targeted because they are targeted. S/D core acro is a bit of an over-performer right now. That's not to say other specs like FB and Scourge aren't, and they also need some nerfs, but the current build is not challenging to play and super strong. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about, you get two thief in the same game and everyone quits out of the gate, but somehow the spec is "overperforming". If it was overperforming it would be viable to have 2. What is thief doing exactly that it's TOO GOOD at? It's going to be good at decaps and +1 regardless because of sb5 and the fs/ls is a counter to one specific build, that NEEDS to have a counter and otherwise the spec excels at nothing besides dodging a lot. Which is easily countered. But I'm the one who isn't thinking analytically, right. It hard-counters firebrand on-point and FS/LS is literally spam 3 to win half the time. People getting salty about having two thieves are either dumb or the thieves aren't playing to counter FB. The guy who played DE in top10 said he preferred having a second thief on the team, btw. You're going to have to do better than "everyone who plays pvp is dumb" to get a real response out of me. This isn't isolated cases this is every single game where there is 2 thief across the board in any bracket. The DE guy might prefer it because he's playing a thief that isn't a thief, but his teammates most likely do not. Oh and, tell your FB buddies to learn how to walk sideways since that's about all it takes to avoid damage from spam 3. I mean if the thieves aren't playing to counter the FB which is only countered by thief... then yeah they kind of deserve it to be honest.They kind of deserve what? I don't understand what you're saying here. But about flanking strike, try this: get on a thief and your buddy on a firebrand and have your buddy walk to his right (Your left) and start spamming FS and tell me how many you connect with. No dodges, just walking.

Well the thing is they completely destroyed sd as a spec and dp, which isn't even meta right now, also took some solid targeted nerfs. This is on a class where you queue for pvp, get in and first thing you see is "two thief? Switch or we lose" When I can get into a game and not hear that, thief will deserve nerfs Until then idgaf how much these forums cry, the class didn't need nerfs What are you talking about lol. The patch is going to have very little effect on thief's potency in the meta right now. It's just not going to be as easy to spam 3 on S/D core and kill people or nuke things with the AA chain on MH dagger. The current meta S/D is generally easymode. Long-term, it might have some adverse consequences when things change but as of now S/D is absolutely over-performing for how safe it is. D/P isn't very good because of FB, Scourge, and Holo just being outright overpowered. S/D is not going to be viable after this patch. Here's a list of things affecting specifically SD meta build:More than doubled cd on panic strikeMore than doubled cd on instant reflexesMore than doubled cd on pain responseUpper hand cd increased by 66%AA damage reducedRoll for initiative increased from 35 to 40sLS damage reduced If you can look at this list and say this build will still be viable next patch IDK if we will ever agree. Understandably some of these were targetted by the "passives" nerf which was across the board, but I don't know of any other classes which relied on them so heavily as thief. Thief isn't one of those classes that survives by using all the abilities on its bar - thief has a low HP pool and relied on dodges and passives to survive. Other classes just use a different trait and slot a different utility - that won't work for thief, specifically won't work for SD after this patch. DP was also slightly targetted with a similar AA nerf, pulmonary impact (why? this isnt passive and DP wasnt even in the meta), and the aforementioned panic strike. And DP wasn't even really in the meta last patch. And again, I am tired of seeing "2 thief gg rq" every game. What I do think we will see, if anything, as a meta build for thief in the next patch is condi thief and/or pistols thieves. Maybe rifle will get a chance now - I still feel like the build sucks but supposedly a guy made top 10 using rifle last season and they didn't much do anything to rifle. IDK. But god forbid you have two thieves on your team, kitten if that happens the world might as well explode. As for PVE I have no idea, but these all look like targetted PVP nerfs. The lack of D/P buffs and nerfs to PI have almost nothing to do with the S/D nerfs which was what you initially mentioned so this sounds more like an emotional response to the thief getting nerfed than an analytical one or response to my post. The nerfs feel targeted because they are targeted. S/D core acro is a bit of an over-performer right now. That's not to say other specs like FB and Scourge aren't, and they also need some nerfs, but the current build is not challenging to play and super strong. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about, you get two thief in the same game and everyone quits out of the gate, but somehow the spec is "overperforming". If it was overperforming it would be viable to have 2. What is thief doing exactly that it's TOO GOOD at? It's going to be good at decaps and +1 regardless because of sb5 and the fs/ls is a counter to one specific build, that NEEDS to have a counter and otherwise the spec excels at nothing besides dodging a lot. Which is easily countered. But I'm the one who isn't thinking analytically, right. It hard-counters firebrand on-point and FS/LS is literally spam 3 to win half the time. People getting salty about having two thieves are either dumb or the thieves aren't playing to counter FB. The guy who played DE in top10 said he preferred having a second thief on the team, btw.You're going to have to do better than "everyone who plays pvp is dumb" to get a real response out of me. This isn't isolated cases this is every single game where there is 2 thief across the board in any bracket. The DE guy might prefer it because he's playing a thief that isn't a thief, but his teammates most likely do not. Oh and, tell your FB buddies to learn how to walk sideways since that's about all it takes to avoid damage from spam 3.

Well the thing is they completely destroyed sd as a spec and dp, which isn't even meta right now, also took some solid targeted nerfs. This is on a class where you queue for pvp, get in and first thing you see is "two thief? Switch or we lose" When I can get into a game and not hear that, thief will deserve nerfs Until then idgaf how much these forums cry, the class didn't need nerfs What are you talking about lol. The patch is going to have very little effect on thief's potency in the meta right now. It's just not going to be as easy to spam 3 on S/D core and kill people or nuke things with the AA chain on MH dagger. The current meta S/D is generally easymode. Long-term, it might have some adverse consequences when things change but as of now S/D is absolutely over-performing for how safe it is. D/P isn't very good because of FB, Scourge, and Holo just being outright overpowered. S/D is not going to be viable after this patch. Here's a list of things affecting specifically SD meta build:More than doubled cd on panic strikeMore than doubled cd on instant reflexesMore than doubled cd on pain responseUpper hand cd increased by 66%AA damage reducedRoll for initiative increased from 35 to 40sLS damage reduced If you can look at this list and say this build will still be viable next patch IDK if we will ever agree. Understandably some of these were targetted by the "passives" nerf which was across the board, but I don't know of any other classes which relied on them so heavily as thief. Thief isn't one of those classes that survives by using all the abilities on its bar - thief has a low HP pool and relied on dodges and passives to survive. Other classes just use a different trait and slot a different utility - that won't work for thief, specifically won't work for SD after this patch. DP was also slightly targetted with a similar AA nerf, pulmonary impact (why? this isnt passive and DP wasnt even in the meta), and the aforementioned panic strike. And DP wasn't even really in the meta last patch. And again, I am tired of seeing "2 thief gg rq" every game. What I do think we will see, if anything, as a meta build for thief in the next patch is condi thief and/or pistols thieves. Maybe rifle will get a chance now - I still feel like the build sucks but supposedly a guy made top 10 using rifle last season and they didn't much do anything to rifle. IDK. But god forbid you have two thieves on your team, kitten if that happens the world might as well explode. As for PVE I have no idea, but these all look like targetted PVP nerfs. The lack of D/P buffs and nerfs to PI have almost nothing to do with the S/D nerfs which was what you initially mentioned so this sounds more like an emotional response to the thief getting nerfed than an analytical one or response to my post. The nerfs feel targeted because they are targeted. S/D core acro is a bit of an over-performer right now. That's not to say other specs like FB and Scourge aren't, and they also need some nerfs, but the current build is not challenging to play and super strong.This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about, you get two thief in the same game and everyone quits out of the gate, but somehow the spec is "overperforming". If it was overperforming it would be viable to have 2. What is thief doing exactly that it's TOO GOOD at? It's going to be good at decaps and +1 regardless because of sb5 and the fs/ls is a counter to one specific build, that NEEDS to have a counter and otherwise the spec excels at nothing besides dodging a lot. Which is easily countered. But I'm the one who isn't thinking analytically, right.

Well the thing is they completely destroyed sd as a spec and dp, which isn't even meta right now, also took some solid targeted nerfs. This is on a class where you queue for pvp, get in and first thing you see is "two thief? Switch or we lose" When I can get into a game and not hear that, thief will deserve nerfs Until then idgaf how much these forums cry, the class didn't need nerfs What are you talking about lol. The patch is going to have very little effect on thief's potency in the meta right now. It's just not going to be as easy to spam 3 on S/D core and kill people or nuke things with the AA chain on MH dagger. The current meta S/D is generally easymode. Long-term, it might have some adverse consequences when things change but as of now S/D is absolutely over-performing for how safe it is. D/P isn't very good because of FB, Scourge, and Holo just being outright overpowered.S/D is not going to be viable after this patch. Here's a list of things affecting specifically SD meta build:More than doubled cd on panic strikeMore than doubled cd on instant reflexesMore than doubled cd on pain responseUpper hand cd increased by 66%AA damage reducedRoll for initiative increased from 35 to 40sLS damage reduced If you can look at this list and say this build will still be viable next patch IDK if we will ever agree. Understandably some of these were targetted by the "passives" nerf which was across the board, but I don't know of any other classes which relied on them so heavily as thief. Thief isn't one of those classes that survives by using all the abilities on its bar - thief has a low HP pool and relied on dodges and passives to survive. Other classes just use a different trait and slot a different utility - that won't work for thief, specifically won't work for SD after this patch. DP was also slightly targetted with a similar AA nerf, pulmonary impact (why? this isnt passive and DP wasnt even in the meta), and the aforementioned panic strike. And DP wasn't even really in the meta last patch. And again, I am tired of seeing "2 thief gg rq" every game. What I do think we will see, if anything, as a meta build for thief in the next patch is condi thief and/or pistols thieves. Maybe rifle will get a chance now - I still feel like the build sucks but supposedly a guy made top 10 using rifle last season and they didn't much do anything to rifle. IDK. But god forbid you have two thieves on your team, fuck if that happens the world might as well explode. As for PVE I have no idea, but these all look like targetted PVP nerfs.

That's what they want though, they want thief to be shitty and everyone to still play it Mesmer will 100% still be the op meta and thief won't even be able to queue anymore without a report for trolling

Well the thing is they completely destroyed sd as a spec and dp, which isn't even meta right now, also took some solid targeted nerfs. This is on a class where you queue for pvp, get in and first thing you see is "two thief? Switch or we lose" When I can get into a game and not hear that, thief will deserve nerfs Until then idgaf how much these forums cry, the class didn't need nerfs

All of you thief mains out there, just accept that the world hates us and roll a mesmer. Mesmer is, mechanically, the next closest thing to a thief. It fills the same role, but better, and unlike thief which is generally a class filled with people trying to make the best of a shitty class, mesmer actually is op pretty much every single patch. I'll tell you one thing... people may whine about thief all day long, but after this patch when there aren't any good thief builds left, and every single thief switches to mesmer, they're going to wish they hadn't bitched so much about a fucking thief.

Exactly. Lot of the culprits have done this for many consecutive seasons and still have their alts on the leaderboard. A lot of people aren't understanding that this IS a solution. Yes people like vaans have alt accounts, but now that anet has set a precedence those accounts are also in danger of bans.

Perfect! Offhand sword 5 should just Insta down whatever it touches also