Vagrant.7206
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Posts posted by Vagrant.7206
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@Murshid.9854 said:Is it the longbow of engineer (only great for pvp)?Or it have some good builds for pve?
I'm new to the class so excuse my ignorance.
What part(s) of PvE are you playing?
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@insanemaniac.2456 said:
@Vagrant.7206 said:@insanemaniac.2456 said:@Stand The Wall.6987 said:engi now has zero stab. I guess holos can always meme with the holo ranged trait lel.So? All the cc skills get their power damage taken away. Getting chain cc'ed will no longer be a death sentence from those skills alone, and any particular uncleansed cc really only ensures the next hit. The cc skills are all so good and overused because they all do at least as much damage as an autoattackand they also lock you into getting hit moreand that is the issue being addressed. This will create a choice between lockdown and damage, a choice that HoT, and PoF even more so, took away with their power and utility creep.In a duel, yes, chain CC's are no longer a death sentence. But in teamfights, they still will be.Trying to think of when engi has been an in-the-fray teamfighter. I mean photon forge is aoe and big plays; but it's targeted at dps not bruiser. And hammer didn't lose its stab and it's supposed to be bruiser, so there's one. Why should dps have stability? Why should dps have stability when bruisers and tanks need it to get their skills off and do anything because they are supposed to eat attacks and ccs, while dps should be an opportunist instead of facetanking to do big damage?I haven't read the warrior nerfs yet, but I'm betting they didn't get most of their stability removed. Holosmith is an in-the-fray sort of spec, considering it's melee range and has no teleports or other form of instant escape strategy.
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@coro.3176 said:It is weird how they're nerfing some already awful traits to be even worse. Like, at some point you might as well not even have a trait. Did anyone think about how much these traits were actually contributing in a fight before they went at them with the nerf stick?
Eg. in the Firearms line:
Sharpshooter: Reduced bleeding duration from 3 seconds to 1 secondSo for reference, Sharpshooter is: 33% chance on crit, cause bleeding for 3s.Soif you crit, andif you get the sharpshooter proc(*~18-20% chance of this happening on a deadshot amulet)and* it's not cleansed, you're currently going to get a whopping 433 damage after factoring in expertise / condi duration extensions. If we multiply by the proc chance, that's about 86.7 damage per hit. That's .. really not good.Cutting this to 1/3 of its current value is perplexing. It's barely doing anythingnow. After the patch, it'll be doing less than 1/3 of this. 28 dph? Twenty. Eight.I'm more perplexed than anything. The fact that it's getting nerfed means someone looked at it and thought 87 dph was too much. What even?I genuinely believe they just looked at all traits and skills that do condi, and across the board nerfed them, whether it was necessary or not.
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When discussing large balance patches like the one that's coming up, people hyperfixate on their class or classes of choice, and how powerful or weak they will become. The problem is that every class is seeing massive changes, and I'm not sure that any one person can have a complete grasp of every individual change.
Before we start griping about our nerfs, remember that everyone is getting nerfed. We need to play this balance patch and see how it all shakes out before we can start drawing conclusions. I could be wrong on my predictions for engineer. You could be wrong on your predictions for your class. But we need to see the changes first to know.
The hope is that they actually do follow up on their stated intention of balancing on a much faster cadence. Large balance patches like this need to be followed up with several small balance patches, to reduce the wild changes in metas that we've suffered over the last few years. If they can have a faster turnaround for balance, we'll all be better off.
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@Kodama.6453 said:
@Vagrant.7206 said:All CC's got that treatment. It highlights how many CC's engineer has.The thing is, is this kind of treatment really appropriate? Take Big Ol' Bomb, for example. Yes, this skill is an AoE hard CC and dealt huge damage. But it had other trade offs for this. The skill is delayed and heavily telegraphed. If all it does is giving you an AoE knockback now, then it seems the power budget just doesn't make this skill worth to take anymore. We have other knockbacks which are almost instant, what does Big Ol' Bomb offer compared to those?Nothing, which is why I'm desperately hoping that the balance team will actually take the time to examine engineer's underperforming skills and come up with something better. Our core class has been ignored for a very long time, has aged poorly, and it really shows. We're going to need more explosives-traitline reworks for firearms (and explosives again. Why is the shorter fuse not made baseline? Why is grenadier not baseline? Why can you run faster than a mortar shot?). Turrets need to be examined, as do gadget skills, and some of the kits. Elixirs are one of the few sets of skills that have been ok for a long time.
Big Ol' Bomb and Rocket Turret overcharge are symptoms of a much larger problem with balance for engineer.
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@jaif.3518 said:I didn't see any
damagenerfs to rifle turret or flame turret damage. If everybody's damage and healing goes down, and these stay the same, isn't that basically a buff?Everything about these two is remaining the same, but that really isn't serving as a buff for the turrets. Have you seen how weak rifle turret is by itself? In PvE, it barely threatens normal mobs. It's not a threat to a player, and it will continue to not be a threat.
Flame turret might be threatening by itself if the ability to cleanse condis was also getting a nerf. But most classes are not getting serious nerfs to cleansing capabilities.
@insanemaniac.2456 said:
@Stand The Wall.6987 said:engi now has zero stab. I guess holos can always meme with the holo ranged trait lel.So? All the cc skills get their power damage taken away. Getting chain cc'ed will no longer be a death sentence from those skills alone, and any particular uncleansed cc really only ensures the next hit. The cc skills are all so good and overused because they all do at least as much damage as an autoattackand they also lock you into getting hit moreand that is the issue being addressed. This will create a choice between lockdown and damage, a choice that HoT, and PoF even more so, took away with their power and utility creep.In a duel, yes, chain CC's are no longer a death sentence. But in teamfights, they still will be.
@"Tapps.1479" said:A few people said holo will be bad but I'm thinking prot holo might be our best spec. I know the stab loss is rough but cc is losing damage so chain cc wont be quite as deadly especially 1v1. We'll have to wait and see though. Personally I'm hoping core engi will be good in pvp, I miss having a range class.
Holo isn't dead yet. There are new synergies to explore with the changes to explosives. Even though the stability is gone, we have interaction with the explosives line through CC:Storm. Holo may end up being a midrange king for this reason.
The problem is that Holo is going to get ping-ponged in melee-range teamfights without stability. We won't be nearly as useful in a teamfight, but we should be able to pick out stragglers.
@Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:Quick question.. Maybe it's a language barrier or I'm just overthinking this but: Overheat: Instead of disabling all toolbelt skills until all heat is lost, this skill now adds 15 seconds to the recharge of toolbelt skills other than Photon Forge. Photon Forge remains disabled until all heat is lost.
Does it prevent use of toolbelt skill when overheating for 15 seconds or does it allow use of toolbeltskills when overheating but, adds a 15sec cd?
edit: I guess it has to be that they allow use of toolbelt skills right? preventing use for 15sec wouldnt make any difference from preventing until all heat is lost.. right? I bet im overthinking this
Unfortunately the way it's written is not clear. My guess is that every skill not already on cooldown when you overheat will get 15s of cooldown, and those that are on cooldown will see 15s of cooldown added.
@Ghos.1326 said:
@"Kontrolle.3514" said:Why the cooldown nerfs on hammer and rifle?I mean damage is ok but increasing the cooldown of those skills will make power scrapper totally unviable anymore.Holo already got murdered for pvp why overnerfing rifle now? Other Classes do not get that treatmentThis patch is destroying 90% of my roaming and zerg builds for all my classes.Everything else is getting nerfed too. Not just Engineer.Scrapper won't be "unviable", it might actually be a bit better after the patch now that things that could still destroy it through its defenses will be nerfed to the point where it won't anymore.Rifle 3 pumping out a crazy 5k+ every 8s was, in my opinion, not very good for balancing. Everything everywhere did way too much damage. After this patch, that won't be the case.Oh, scrapper is objectively worse. The damage decrease means a barrier decrease, and the cooldown increase means less ability to stick to targets, which was always scrapper's problem.
@Zexanima.7851 said:Like, I understand the changes and what they are going for and am not complaining but some of these are legit funny (in a haha kinda way, not sarcastic kind of way)
- Static Shock (AED Toolbelt): Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.01
- Rocket Turret: Reduced overcharge power coefficient from 2.75 to 0.01
Just random stuff like that. xD
All CC's got that treatment. It highlights how many CC's engineer has.
The thing that made me guffaw was the power damage nerf to pistol, as though that was doing too much damage. lol
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@Dawdler.8521 said:
@Vagrant.7206 said:TL;DR -- For those who use condi scrapper builds, you won't see much change in your sustain. But for people who use power scrapper builds, you will.... alchemy is nerfed (which hits power too), firearms is nerfed, pistols are nerfed (condiandpower, hilariously).Dont pretend like power is something special here, or that the scrapper traitline exist in a bubble.The relative power level of all classes is dropping. The thing is, power scrapper took a double whammy because it is doing that outgoing strike damage substantially more than condi is.
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@reikken.4961 said:
@Vagrant.7206 said:- Scrapperis going to be genuinely worse than it was before. The damage nerfs also mean a sustain nerf in barrier generation.
but damage nerfs also mean you don't need as much barrier to block a hit. so it's a null changeNot exactly. Impact Savant, the trait that permanently lower scrapper's HP, hasn't been altered. So scrapper still has the lower health pool, but even less to show for it.
Certain CC's that NEVER saw use (Rocket Turret Overcharge, Big Ol' Bomb, Supply Crate) all face the universal damage nerf to 0.01, making them even less desireable than they were before. These skills are just abhorrent now.agree on bomb and turret, but supply crate was never about the damage. it's actually getting buffed. the CC is bigger and the cooldown is shorter. It looks like abetterskill than before to meExcept 90s is still worse than almost all other CC's available to engineer elites. Don't forget to compare to Elixir X and Prime Light Beam. Those two skills alone possess much better CC than Supply Crate on lower cooldowns.
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Ok, I've had some time to digest the engineer changes, so I'm going to post a few general observations I have:
- Core engineer, by comparison with other classes, got a buff (with a caveat). Most of the kits were unaffected by the nerfs, meaning that their relative power is much higher than it was before. The problem is that while their damage is now relatively higher, these skills are still mechanically weak compared to elite specs (which often have multiple functions per skill).
- Scrapper is going to be genuinely worse than it was before. The damage nerfs also mean a sustain nerf in barrier generation. In addition, the cooldown increase on Rocket Leap and reduction in superspeed all around will mean scrapper will have a very difficult time keeping up with enemies, one of its biggest problems to date. See this thread for more details.
- Holo is more vulnerable to getting ping-ponged now. The stability on corona burst was critical to its ability to remain in melee range. Engineer has a stunbreak/stability problem (as in, most stunbreaks don't prevent an immediate follow-up CC), and this nerf is going to make it all the more apparent.
- Certain CC's that NEVER saw use (Rocket Turret Overcharge, Big Ol' Bomb, Supply Crate) all face the universal damage nerf to 0.01, making them even less desireable than they were before. These skills are just abhorrent now. Almost all turret skills need serious revisiting, this patch will make them all horrendous.
- Condi damage on engineer is being drastically nerfed (even core engineer), but I don't see reductions in overall cleansing capabilities for other classes, or engineer. What tiny amount of condi engineer exists got essentially erased. The pistol damage coefficient nerf just made me laugh as the icing on the cake.
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Hammer
- Autoattack Chain:
- Positive Bash: Reduced power coefficient from 0.7 to 0.533. Reduced might duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds
- Negative Bash: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.666. Reduced vulnerability duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds
- Equalizing blow: Reduced power coefficient from 1.4 to 0.933. Reduced might and vulnerability durations from 8 seconds to 6 seconds
- Electro-Whirl: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 1.2 to 0.68. Increased cooldown from 6 seconds to 8 seconds
- Rocket Charge: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 1.1 to 0.74. Increased cooldown from 12 seconds to 18 seconds
- Shock Shield: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.25 to 0.1
- Thunderclap: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.8 to 0.45. Reduced vulnerability duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds
Impact Savant is unchanged in the upcoming balance patch. So scrapper's health pool will continue to remain lower. BUUUUUT because its damage output is also being lowered, its ability to sustain is also taking a direct nerf. I'm not sure any other spec or class is seeing both its sustain and damage hurt at the same time with just a damage change.
But look at the nerfs for everything else:
- Auto-attacks got a 33% nerf. That's a 33% reduction in barrier generated by these skills.
- Electro-whirl got a 44% nerf. That's a 44% reduction in barrier generated by this skill.
- Rocket charge got a 33% nerf. That's a 33% reduction in barrier generated by these skills.
- Shock shield got a 60% nerf. That's a 60% reduction in barrier generated by this skill (not including the barrier per hit, which is unaffected)
- Thunderclap got a 44% nerf. That's a 44% reduction in barrier generated by this skill
This bodes ill for a class that already struggles in competitive play. I hope they will reexamine scrapper soon for this reason, and lower the health debuff from Impact Savant, or increase the barrier generation % (from 15% to something like 20% to compensate)
TL;DR -- For those who use condi scrapper builds, you won't see much change in your sustain. But for people who use power scrapper builds, you will.
- Autoattack Chain:
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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:engi now has zero stab. I guess holos can always meme with the holo ranged trait lel.
This part does worry me. Engineer gets ping-ponged currently, but not enough to make it nonviable. Though damage overall is getting lowered, this nerf could remove holo from PvP, because some classes (IE Rev) are able to chain together several CCs.
EDIT: I just realized the damage nerf to scrapper hammer is a double-whammy for scrapper. It will have even less sustain now, because it won't be generating as much barrier.
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@Yasai.3549 said:Imo all it needs is a reduced Vuln stack.
It applies too much Vuln in an instant for too little effort.
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Lock On: Reduced fury duration from 5 seconds to 2.5 seconds. Adjusted vulnerability from 10 stacks for 8 seconds to 5 stacks for 6 seconds
Next balance patch
@shadowpass.4236 said:Yeah I've been saying this for months. On-hit proc should go and the cd should be bumped up. This trait is one of the most loaded ones in the game.
It's really not unless you're stealthing constantly.
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General impressions:
- I didn't read all the other professions because there's a LOT to read. All of them got their power levels dropped, so it's too early to make judgements where engineer will land in the meta.
- I appreciate that they're taking another look at the toolbelt lockout for holo overheating. This is a much more elegant solution, might bring rifle back onto the table in PvE.
- The changes to explosives look interesting, but they continue to have the grenadier trait (can we please make the flight time baseline?) and by removing the short fuse trait, they made bombs slower to detonate. That said, the traitline is starting to look more viable for PvP.
- Increased windups on most hard CC's in PvE look a bit weird.
PvP impressions:
- I get that all hard CC's are having their power coefficient dropped to 0.01, but it feels really bad for skills like Rocket Turret (overcharge), Supply Crate, and Big Ol' Bomb. These skills saw so little use already.
- The power drop on mainhand pistol made me laugh. I just... I can't even.
- They decreased the cooldown on supply crate. Now it's still just as useless!
- Decreases on engi conditions need to be coupled with decreases in condi removal on other classes. I'm not sure I see that. Engineer condi application is already quite low.
- Was MDF seeing use in PvP?
- Looks like many of the kits escaped the power nerfbat. They may all be more powerful by relative comparison. I'm going to guess that Cal may have used these as his baseline, because these skills were so close to vanilla power levels.
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@Odik.4587 said:
@Vagrant.7206 said:@Odik.4587 said:@wasss.1208 said:@Odik.4587 said:It doesnt make it look less ridiculous compared to other leaping skills on 12+ s cd's for people. (dont look at ranger GS3, its bloated as fook). Yet, attempt to compare it to jaunt was beyond stupid, but I give you extra points for that bolded partThe original point still stands though. Beign able to teleport (for example) on a higher lever on Kyhlo mid, in a fight saves you, unless the enemy has teleport, too. Imo, if holo got more damage and mobility utility skills, instead of defensive ones, it wouldn't be a bunker/bruiser, but really a high risk-high reward +1er, like it was originally planned.What was it? Leap isnt teleport? Great.is a leap.BEcause its has combo finisher leap doesnt mean its a LEAP skill like holo2/warrior's sw2/guardian gs3 and whatnot, hence why its can be used while stunned and without interruption actions and can give you a "no valid path". Thats a whole new level of bias here, to justify something stupid on your main you did comapre 2 skills from different categories but but... leap finisher... ! Even quadriple facepalm wont be enough...Gw2 forum never fail to amuse and prove that 99.9% people here are must not be heard, ever.It's quite easy to get you going.
Yes, Jaunt doesn't have a leap animation, but the game still considers it a leap. :smile:
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@Odik.4587 said:
@wasss.1208 said:@Odik.4587 said:It doesnt make it look less ridiculous compared to other leaping skills on 12+ s cd's for people. (dont look at ranger GS3, its bloated as fook). Yet, attempt to compare it to jaunt was beyond stupid, but I give you extra points for that bolded partThe original point still stands though. Beign able to teleport (for example) on a higher lever on Kyhlo mid, in a fight saves you, unless the enemy has teleport, too. Imo, if holo got more damage and mobility utility skills, instead of defensive ones, it wouldn't be a bunker/bruiser, but really a high risk-high reward +1er, like it was originally planned.What was it? Leap isnt teleport? Great.Jaunt is a leap.
@Arkantos.7460 said:
@Sleepwalker.1398 said:.......and somewhere the Balance Team is sitting down, enjoying popcorn and having a laugh at ppl arguing in this forum.and preparing next holobuff for big balance patchSource?
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@Odik.4587 said:
@"Vagrant.7206" said:For comparison, whileis the same distance, it is a z-axis teleport, allowing the user to teleport to places otherwise impossible to reach without teleports.MonkaS, jaunt is 450 range on 30s cd and an elite slot, rocket boots is an utility skill with 20s cd 900 range and can be traited for superspeed and lower cooldown on each count(and more range? I dont remember).If you tried to compare an actual HOLO LEAP vs jaunt then you are comparing apples and oranges, no clue what you are trying to achieve by doing soPointing out that holo mobility is not "through the roof."
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@Eddbopkins.2630 said:
@Stand The Wall.6987 said:@Eddbopkins.2630 said:In Holo mode don't you have a leap that's on a 4 second cd? Thank God u can't just use it almost when ever u want.its 2 sec cd lol. that's always bothered me.O, geez 2 seconds? That lvl of mobility and leap combo potential is threw the roofs.It's roughly the same as swiftness out of combat, not including the precast and aftercast. It's a good gap-closer, but not "fantastic mobility."
Context also matters: Engineer lacks other gap-closers in its arsenal (and I don't know how many times I have to repeat this, rocket boots is not a gap closer), and has no Z-axis teleports or iframes. For comparison, while Jaunt is the same distance, it is a z-axis teleport, allowing the user to teleport to places otherwise impossible to reach without teleports.
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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:
@Chaith.8256 said:snipsyeah, right. this makes sense but its still strange that it doesn't have a normal cd like berserker, reaper, or druid. its the incongruency that gets me I think.Engineer has always been an oddball when it comes to weapon swapping/mode swapping. It doesn't have a weapon swap/attunement swap. I think a lot of people forget that engineer doesn't have a weapon swap. It just has (optional) kits.
With holomode, the devs decided to put a cooldown on it to prevent people from spam hopping in and out of it (thereby circumventing some of the heat mechanics). That's the reason it even has a cooldown at all. Otherwise, they probably would have made it like any other engineer kit, which it essentially is.
@Arkantos.7460 said:yolo holos defending their skillspamming class
Lol, you can't address @Chaith.8256 's counterpoint, so you go full red herring.
@Eugchriss.2046 said:
@Chaith.8256 said:@Arkantos.7460 said:LOL reenant is affected by energy AND COOLDOWNS by a 10 sec legendswap ...can we plz delete the cd on this so we can have same chances as holos .... otherwise its extremely unfairYeah we might as well make all professions the same. So what you said, plus:-Revenant: Now when the revenant runs out of energy, his legend skills are locked for 15 seconds, takes 8k damage, and loses half of his sustain for the next 20 seconds.Done dealThis would be a buff to rev lmao. I would perma swap once I hit a 15-20 energy. Btw except from meta herald/shiro all pvp rev's buildforcesthemselves to use all their energy to trigger charged mist.How would this be a buff? It's literally nothing but a nerf. There is no upside to Chaith's proposed nerf.
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@"Hannelore.8153" said:I think that all incarnations of the Engi are in a pretty good place right now, although Holo needs a few tweaks.
The thing to understand about the meta is this: If a class isn't super great at the meta, it doesn't matter very much because PvE in this game is easy and if you swap a good class out with a bad class your team is still going to win unless they're terrible.
If you're talking about open world PvE, I might agree with you. But when most people refer to PvE, they're talking about high-end PvE. Fractals and raids.
Both of these places are where core engineer and scrapper are subpar. Core engineer requires you to play a piano for DPS that isn't as good as much easier classes. Scrapper's DPS is pretty laughable in most circumstances unless your team is bad.
Core engi/scrapper can only provide raw heals and minor buffs, not churn out the game-changing buffs that firebrand, druid, or chrono can. Now sure, with my scrapper healer build, I can hard carry almost any PUG through fractals. But it's not doing much besides raw healing/tanking/damage mitigation, which good groups shouldn't need to worry about as much.
Holo is the only engineer spec that is competitive in these scenarios, and even then it's not ideal.
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I like the idea of attaching the turret to your shoulders. Would at least feel less crappy.
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@Yasai.3549 said:All they have to do is nerf Holosmith's survivability itself so that they have to start rolling different stats to get the same survivability as before, reducing the damage they do through straight stat scaling.
Right now, with just some pieces of Marauder and a majority of Berserker pieces, they can face tank even the strongest bursts in the game.
If they wanna build like a Thief, it's not fair that they can sustain/take hits like a Guardian is all I'm saying.
This thread is >3 months old now. Why resurrect it?
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It's not an either/or situation. They should listen to both, but should err towards listening to people with more experience playing the game.
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@Naxos.2503 said:I cant say Very Hopeful, nor can I say Teeming with dread.
I have one specific request for the balance team, is that Engineer turrets get an Actual look into. An attempt to better them and make them viable. Unfortunately, since they haven't exactly been touched for a while, and the last time they've been touched has actually downgraded their use, I am neither expecting -a- result, nor a -good- result on that regard. It's Something that has been on my mind (And quite a few engineers, judging by the engineer forum) and most including myself have outright given up on that skill family.
There's a lot of core engineer that has aged very poorly. There's maybe a handful of different utility skills that are worth your time in PvP and 2 entire traitlines barely see use.
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@bluri.2653 said:@mortrialus.3062 said:@Sigmoid.7082 said:@mortrialus.3062 said:@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.You keep talking about the size being really big but how big is it compared to a pretty normal balance pass like this?He did say every skill and trait has been reviewed. Should give some idea about scope and size.Reviewed but not necessarily changed.He said the amount of changes will be hard to even put out on a note. Does that explain it better?How is writing patch notes hard? You just type them. If I was typing patch notes instead of my own post I'd be doing it right now. Think about that.Not been much of a writer, huh? Explaining technical things in a simple way is an art and a science.
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@"Alin.2468" said:This discussion reminds me of...
I like it.
Cool Yer Jets
in Player vs. Player
Posted
Not a restoration of faith. Rather, suggesting that criticism should be more muted than it is right now, because it's genuinely hard to foresee what the changes will do.