[every class is a different flavor of advanced warrior at this point]

9 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

Does it matter? i'm just talking about in a general sense, funny how you say these are not in Guild Wars, when clearly we are not happy about the approach Anet has to warrior, that's literally the entire point.

so you still haven't respond to me, what makes a warrior, engineer, necromancer, guardian

bet you can't, because you never thought of it before making the "it doesn't make warrior" statement, while all the other classes elite specs will break any statement you make, except only the warrior ones.

unfortunately, i can't tell you what's a "warrior family type" when you can't even comprehend the fundamentals and differences of classes and elite specs, which you never thought about, yet you still commenting about it

What is a warrior? A soldier/adventurer that typically uses the more protective "heavy" armor, and is excellent at combat. He doesn't need fancy gadgets or magic to be a deadly force on the battlefield.

An Engineer is a tinkerer and alchemist, using gadgets and tools to expand their options of what they can do on the field and using those gadgets to shore up weaknesses they have.

A necromancer is a spellcaster they channels the power of death, using minions or destructive magic relating to the subjects of disease, corruption, curses, or decay. 

A guardian is a magic protective soldier. Using their magics to support their team by defense, healing, or empowerment. The very nature of how they use weapons is altered by this mindset.

Elite specs? Okay.

A Berserker has tapped into a much stronger rage, while some lean light fire magics, their focus is on hitting hard and fast. A spellbreaker is a warrior who focuses on being able to disrupt the enemy, breaking spells apart over using magic heavily themselves. A bladesworn is one who does have some tech, but it's in the form of the gunsaber mainly, and their focus on using that tool to the best effectiveness.

Scrappers are more melee-focused Engineers, using an array of remote drones (gyros) to boost their combat effectiveness and support their team. A holosmith focuses on using holograms and their sunforge, seeking to maximize those tools. A Mechanist is entirely focused on their combat jade mech, and using the war machine to support allies or quickly dispatch enemies.

A reaper does use a greatsword, but their focus is on, again, that destructive magic. Cold and chill behind every swing, every arc of their ghostly scythe in the shroud form. A scourge leans more into fire and the decay of a desert, sand and angry spirits stripping away at the enemy. Harbringer uses necromatic magic infused with alchemy to create deadly shards they fire from pistols or vials of concoctions thrown at enemy and friend alike.

A dragonhunter focuses on area denial and forcing enemies to fight where they want them to fight, and pins them down. A firebrand uses ancient pages of power and magic to massively support their allies, or hit the enemy hard. A willbender focuses on agility and movement to control the battlefield.

None of the elite specs go "Oh it's just a warrior" to me. Even if you view the elite specs as a "hybrid class" of sorts, that is equal parts of both classes. I understand not being happy, but the other classes aren't "warriors". If I look at the classes and elite specs, I don't pick a reaper or holosmith if I'm wanting a warrior. I pick a warrior.

[every class is a different flavor of advanced warrior at this point]

20 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

So what is the point of elite specs then?

how is dark knight/blood knight/dragon knight not part of warrior family that also has fancy gadgets?

and how is calling everything variants of warrior funny, there's a reason why i mentioned holosmith and not scrapper, willbender and not firebrand, holosmith and willbender are clearly more warrior type like than their original base class, that's not than just "attacking in melee"

While other classes do get "fancy magic or gadgets" they can also just choose to be warrior like and does none of those thing and just go pure brute force melee, but they can still choose to have those fancy magic or gadgets

while warrior does not have any choice, every elite specs are the same, every weapon feel the same, every trait does the same.

and what makes a warrior, you tell me, and what makes an engineer, necromancer, guardian, tell me.

what's funny is somehow there's magically all these non-warrior player comes out of nowhere and talk about something they don't care nor never thought about.

when i mained rev for HoT, holo for PoF and willy for EoD, as in taking them to raid fractal CM and clear the entire expansion PvE content and more, when these people can't even figure out how their main work.

 

Dark knight, blood knight, and dragon knight are not things in Guild wars? It's hard to tell what you mean by "Warrior family" at all. You seem to latch onto the melee elite specs of other classes and call them "advanced warriors" but I fail to see how that connection is made.

[every class is a different flavor of advanced warrior at this point]

On 6/14/2024 at 3:20 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

Or, possibly more to the point, a lot of elemental warrior themes can be done on other professions. Fire warrior? Guardian, berserker, even condi rev to a degree. Lightning warrior? Engineer hammer or spear. Ice warrior? Reaper. Earth warrior? Jalis rev (combine with Shiro or Glint).

People seem to forget that Warrior is the class that doesn't need fancy magic or gadgets, While the other classes do.

Though calling everything variants of warrior is kinda funny to me. Attacking in melee doesn't make you a warrior.

[Can more awakened be still created?]

2 hours ago, Trejgon.9367 said:

The funny part in here is that the wall did not collapse. Outer wall around the city was stable, what collapsed was the city segment between the outer wall and the inner circle section. Rebuilding of that into crowns pavilion did no changes to the wall itself.

There was a section of the wall that was gone, but it was rebuilt fully when they did the Pavilion.  https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/5/55/2013_July_Great_Collapse_Tent.jpg But that was the extent of the damage to it. 
 

[Can more awakened be still created?]

1 hour ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Sure, Centaurs were at it but sewer Drakes did it 🤣

Just gonna leave this here, because it's funny.

You literally cannot claim "Centaurs did it" and then immediately go "We have no idea what caused that portion of the wall to collaspe"

You would think that if the Centaurs literally managed to cause massive damage to a portion of the city, somebody would actually talk about that hmm?

Rather then the only time they've reached the walls being the human tutorial?

[Can more awakened be still created?]

1 hour ago, Trejgon.9367 said:

I have no idea where you got that from, divinity's reach walls were not blown up (and definitelly not to hell lol) by centaurs, like ever. The only time outer wall was breached, it was with massive surprise attack with huge magical bombardment by white mantle (in LWS3), that also involved infiltration team striking from the inside. And even then, they failed to do anything meaningful and were repelled back within scope of single story instance.

Thing is, the outer walls weren't even breached then. The White Mantle only got forces inside by mesmer portals, their bombardment did no damage and they didn't even get to try to breach the gates.

53 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

It collapsed sometime between 1324 and early 1325 AE due to a rushed construction and being placed atop a cavernous sinkhole which local Krytans had used as tombs in the past.

There are conflicting stories on what happened the night of the collapse.

There were also rumors of strange noises coming from the depths of the Great Collapse, which were associated with pre-existing rumors of stories of drakes living in the city's sewer system.

And none of that was caused by Centaurs. 

[Can more awakened be still created?]

7 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

However, in GW2, particularly Jahai Bluffs, it is widely treated like Joko was the only one who could create Awakened. All the priests and whatnot who created Awakened in Path of Fire did so by channeling Joko's energy. One of the major subplots of the episode is the Awakened dealing with the fact that they are once again mortal - if they die, they die for good this time. No more second chances.

I'd counter this with the core story of PoF which included the Awakened robbing graveyards north of the wall and even sabotaging some farms at the border so they could kill people for punishment and take them to be made Awakened and thrown at the enemy forces. The Necropolis judge event includes this as well, with people being sent to be Awakened. It's not quite like Joko was channeling power to them all, especially while chained up in the domain of the lost. And He has taught other necromancers his style of magics, even if some of them rebelled and fled (the scourges)

Jahai Bluffs was dealing with a loss of faith and direction for the Awakened, and while they may not be able to endlessly revive an Awakened, it doesn't perhaps mean they can't go and use the ritual on a living person.

7 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

I wouldn't say they're functionally immortal, as the Boneyard in Vabbi shows, the Awakened do decay and fall apart over time even with Joko's power maintaining them.

I'd include the Awakened in Jahai bluffs who has forgetten his former life entirely and has to be reminded of it. There is limits, but that could also be linked to how favored they are by Joko. Random servants/grunts fading faster then a skilled officer or champion.

9 hours ago, Trejgon.9367 said:

To elaborate on that, in core PoF story sunspears are not even a handful of survivors, scattered along whole continent. Discovery and securing of griffons post PoF is what allowed them to even start communicating. Additionally while it is possible to tell Amnoon to ally themselves with sunspears, their first reaction was suggestion is made, is doubting if they are even any left.

As for the people of Istan "starting" to get unhappy, it was my perception of Dawnbreak episode, that Istan was held under oppressive boot and unhappy for all this time. Temporary Joko absence, together with rebuilding of sunspears communications with griffon use allowed emergence of new spearmarshal, and staging of actual revolt with any hope of success. One thing that in geneal I took away from LWS4 Joko arc, is that only Vabbi had it nice with Joko, Kourna and Istan both have suffered under his reign (former as a vengeance for Turai Ossa, latter for being main hq for sunspears).

 

One thing that helped spark the rebellion was that with the damages caused by the invasion of Forged and Branded, the nobility/Vabbi was taking even more supplies then they normally did, causing resource shortages at Istan. This made the population uneasy and start rebelling, which the slowly regrowing sunspears took advantage of combined with a safe haven in the grand library.

[Flying kryptis? Sure. But does Eppie fly?]

25 minutes ago, Flowersunshine.7385 said:

Tbf I originally posted this in game discussion, because I do believe the map design is not consistent with the lore - and I think that's not a lore discussion, but a game design discussion. We got maps that made the skyscale relevant. The lore was adjusted to that, not the other way around.

I mean, I don't really think that's accurate?

The only flying heavy maps were soto, where the lore fits the design. Nayos is an alien world and The sections that we see actually with buildings/towns you can generally walk around without having to fly from building to building.

[Why didn't the elder dragons just wipe out cities or use their minions like the Shatterer, the claw or tequatl to cause chaos throughout the entire world?]

24 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

 

Mordremoth: I am everywhere. I am all.

Mordremoth: I am the only possible victor.

Mordremoth: I am power itself. I am life itself. To deny me is to embrace oblivion.

Mordremoth: You will all be consumed.

 

Mordemoth wanted to continue to devour magic.

Jormag was actually trying to get people to willingly align with them during the icebrood saga. Their whispers were for people to willingly give in and join.

[Can more awakened be still created?]

27 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Yet they built New Kaineng, the most impressive city in Tyria... So far... but getting rid of those risen was just too much for them.

Meanwhile Joko, who couldn't even get rid of Sunspears after donkey years cleared them right up...

Completely ignoring the whole aspect of New Kaineng is like maybe a fourth of the total size of Kaineng city from before, and the ruins of the city are collapsed and layered and literally filled with countless dead.

And you do know that Joko literally forced the sunspears into hiding and loner status and the only reason they actually reemerged was because outsider invasions (two at the same time) destablized the balance of power enough that people on Istan started getting unhappy, allowing the Sunspears a foothold to finally get recruits.

The sunspears were literally not even an issue of any shape or form until after Balthazar died. 

[Flying kryptis? Sure. But does Eppie fly?]

7 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Magic rift portals powered by plot which can bring characters where they need to be when the story needs them there but can't be used on demand for your convenience.

You seem to awfully dislike actually talking about any lore subjects for somebody who spends time in here.

 

[Why didn't the elder dragons just wipe out cities or use their minions like the Shatterer, the claw or tequatl to cause chaos throughout the entire world?]

1 hour ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Because elder dragons making speeches about conquering the world and domination was thought up by people that came in later with big ideas, not the original concept.

Yet pulling another Lion's Arch would just be way too expensive, so...

Or it's almost like different Dragons have entirely different goals and the only one actually wanting to cover the world in their influence was Jormag. 

[Can more awakened be still created?]

56 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

If risen are all the way down south, they'd also be all over the coast of Elona which is 10 times closer to Orr.

The coast of Elona which has landmass separating it as well as isn't just a straight shot from Orr. Plus Joko would've cleaned it up quickly, where as Cantha had to deal with the collaspe of Kaineng city which means removing sources of corruption and bodies is a huge task.

Also there is no reason why risen would ever be found in Drizzlewood coast, which is on the opposite side of Kryta and has no direct connection to the waters around Orr.

[Why didn't the elder dragons just wipe out cities or use their minions like the Shatterer, the claw or tequatl to cause chaos throughout the entire world?]

As noted, their goal wasn't destruction of nations or causing chaos. They simply woke up to feed on magic. Unless a place had excessive amounts of magic, they wouldn't be interested in it. 

[Can more awakened be still created?]

1 hour ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Same reason you still have spores, nightmare krait, twisted watchworks knights...

Also why was there no risen down the coast of Elona but there are risen in the coast of Cantha? If Zaithan influence stretched that far south, why aren't there any risen further north too like in Drizzlewood... ?

The answer is don't think about it.

So instead of actually looking at the question, you went in a negative and hostile way that isn't even the purpose of the question in general? He isn't saying "Oh why are there still awakened enemies" he's saying "Can Vabbi still turn people into Awakened."

Also the Risen comment makes zero sense and if you looked at a map you'd see the obvious reason why. If you don't want to think about the lore of things, why are you in the lore forum?

18 minutes ago, Trejgon.9367 said:

Technical possibility should exist, the question would be if there is anyone out there with enough knowledge of the process, and expertise in magical manipulation to pull it off.

I mean, there is the necropolis in Vabbi and Joko's death was when there still was a lot of Awakened infrastructure left. The only thing they may not be able to do is revive dead Awakened, just make new ones from willingly participants as Vabbi's culture has shifted a lot toward that.

 

38 minutes ago, CETheLucid.3964 said:

If Aurene felt like it I guess. Practically, no. The ones that remain will remain until they're rekilled. Outside of of an active force to destroy them they're functionally immortal. Even with Joko alive they had a surprising amount of autonomy outside of being unable to directly disobey orders from Joko or authority derived from Joko. This was something Awakened Koss used to get out of doing a lot of things until they threw him in a cave with a basic order he couldn't really wiggle out of.

I mean, even when Joko was stuck in the domain of the lost they were making Awakened without him. 

And the amount of autonomy kinda varied.

[Can more awakened be still created?]

As far as I know, technically yes new awakened can be made, but it probably is a much more selective/careful process due to government changes and Joko being gone. 

[[SPOILER DISCUSSION WARNING] The new Main Organization for Commander/Wayfinder]

Anet has said that after Soto they'd be exploring more Tyrian subjects didn't they? Like the Sylvari, Charr, and Norn situation, Cantha's place in the world, etc.

[Mother of Stars: What Happened To Dagda's Voice?]

Could be to indicate she's possessed?

[Forgotten Lore &/or Unused Threads]

1 hour ago, Trejgon.9367 said:

well that would imply someone took it, but whether they were ghosts, charr of eir is not stated.

I forget, but I'm pretty sure Eir goes over to the blade and it disappears in the story instance. Ghosts wouldn't move it, as the only thinking ones would take a while to respawn in the catacombs. 

[Forgotten Lore &/or Unused Threads]

6 hours ago, Trejgon.9367 said:

One interesting bit, is that it is not even clear, if Eir did take the shattered Magdaer from the Catacombs. She went there to retrieve it, Rytlock with players help her out (mostly because it stirred trouble to the surface), but when Rytlock has learned of Eir's goal, he gave her angry temper over that, Eir runs out, and the next we hear of her, she goes to gloriously die on the honor of the waves - kodan sanctuary overrun with jormag's minions. During that dungeon players manages to get Eir to snap back into trying to mend the Destiny's Edge back together, but the topic of the sword was never again mentioned.

From memory, the sword is missing in the explorable version.

[The lore of teleports]

9 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

The convergences are essentially larger-scale versions of a story mission - but it is noteworthy that we don't really see any reference to them while we're in Inner Nayos. It's possible that they're supposed to be happening in Outer Nayos and that they're essentially large-scale raids by the Astral Ward, but that's somewhat incongruous with the narrative in the Nayos story that the Astral Ward is mostly staying out of it apart from a few volunteers. 

I'm partially tempted to have convergences considered the same as strikes. Neat things but not really canon. At least until they officially say anything.

[[SPOILER DISCUSSION WARNING] The new Main Organization for Commander/Wayfinder]

8 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

The amusing thing is that after all that, by the end of Season 4, Logan is leading from the front more than Trahearne did (Trahearne in Orr typically only left Fort Trinity when he thought his expertise was specifically needed, and in the Maguuma campaign, he probably thought that being on the airship was safe enough).

Which implies one of four things:

1) The Pact assumed they wouldn't have to tell Logan to stick to a desk due to his injuries, and didn't consider what he'd do if/when he recovered.

2) After what happened with the Commander, the Pact leadership realised the futility of recruiting someone who's known for their fighting abilities and then telling them they're not allowed to fight.

3) Logan changed the policy after entering office.

4) Logan pulled a "better to ask forgiveness than permission" and nobody had both the ability and the inclination to stop him.

And yeah, I suspect that, whether formally a member or not, the Pact probably has an understanding that if the Dragonslayer is calling for help, it's serious. Things like the Guild Initiative suggest it might even be policy to have a few adventuring guilds loosely affiliated with the Pact that can identify and deal with relevant issues. The bigger question is how long the Pact is going to remain "the Pact" when the dragons are no longer an issue, find a new purpose, or devolve its resources back into the three orders.

Giving credit to Logan, he did stick to the airship mostly and I'd assume they worked on a much tighter security for fleets just to prevent another Verdant Brink from happening.

Though they could have also figured that during wartime, having the Marshall be among the troops is a moral boost and allows for much faster reaction time to situational changes, and since Logan is a highly experienced soldier and an officer, he doesn't suffer some of the problems that Trahearne faced being a scholar first, then Marshall. 

[Where are the airships built?]

The thing is core maps rarely change unless something huge goes down.

We know LA has their own airships (beyond the ones stolen from aetherblades). Kryta has airships as well. The Pact fields the largest fleet, and the corsairs also obtained a bunch of airships. The aetherblade airship fleet is defunct now though, but showcased a wide range of airship sizes that everybody presumably has access to.

Vigil Keep, LA aerodome, Black citadel, are all likely locations for it. We know of a few private citizen airships (The Nobles airship that was at the jungle, and Tixx's custom airship).

Twilight arbor was a hideout + a factory, but it was rendered null. There is the Aetherblade airship dock in Gendarren though. 

[[SPOILER DISCUSSION WARNING] The new Main Organization for Commander/Wayfinder]

22 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Dude, I'm hanging on by a thread...

Bro I'm so glad you're rebuilding!

You understand there is such a thing as "Context" right?

[[SPOILER DISCUSSION WARNING] The new Main Organization for Commander/Wayfinder]

34 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

 

General Almorra Soulkeeper: The Marshal rank is...uh...vacant. And we want you to fill it.

The Commander: This is an honor.

General Almorra Soulkeeper: I'm glad you view it in that light. The Pact is hanging on by a thread.

The Pact was recovering from having a huge chunk of it's forces and materials wiped out in a day and having just emerged from a brutal 40 day campaign in the jungle.

It wasn't falling apart, it was rebuilding.