[Warrior Spear Looks So Underwhelming Visually]

8 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

How many crazy particle effects can you really add before warrior stops being "dabbles with a bit of magic occasionally" to being full-on guardian-but-yellow?

Not a lot, really. 

[Where are the airships built?]

6 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Well, we do see the ultimate result of the charr efforts in the helicopters. Point being that the idea of airships specifically might be more likely to have come from humans, since we don't really see any indication of their use in the charr territories.

The charr would have provided the guns, most of the mechanical parts, and probably designed most of the hull apart from the envelope.

(Let's not think about how most of the envelope is open internally, so either most of the lift is coming from lifting cells in the outer layer, or it has to be really warm in there...)

Human: We got balloons.
charr: How about attaching a boat to the balloon. Cannons.
Asura: And how exactly will this move forward?

😄

[Where are the airships built?]

24 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I think it's actually an important point that the charr were specifically experimenting with heavier-than-air flight - it gives a very strong possibility that lighter-than-air flight was somebody else's idea. And given that Krytans use balloons for smaller-volume transportation, this makes it entirely likely that it was a Krytan idea. The Charr might be the top engineers in many respects, but that doesn't mean they had the initial idea for everything.

Not saying they had the initial idea for everything. The Airships were clearly stated to be a collaborative effort that only worked because of the joint skills of the races and would've failed if only one group tried it.  Even if the first draft was "what if we fought the dragons in the air instead of on the ground?"

[Where are the airships built?]

3 hours ago, XCLASSGAMING.9830 said:

im pretty sure a mesmer school is mentioned at somepoint

There is also the Queensdale Academy.  While we don't personally see it, it is referenced.

50 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Heck, based on what we see, Kryta shouldn't even have a port on the Sea of Sorrows to operate a navy from any more.

Hence why I specified lighter-than-air flight.

GW1 lore established that Kryta had magic academies. They likely still exist, albeit in a new location, even if we don't see them. Possibly in the parts of Divinity's Reach we can't explore.

We also have no idea where Port Stalwart was, if it got rebuilt or not. But Kryta operates both a navy and Airships/balloons. + We know the Charr at one point had a port on the Sea of Sorrows and the Norn, Charr, and Asura visited Port Stalwart in their vessels (Indicating a Minor Norn presence on the sea, reinforced with that Norn crew that died when Orr rose and became ghosts). Assuming some reclamation of places as time moves on, Port Noble (Turned Tabitha's pirate haven) and the ruins of the old fort on the cost could be returned to use. 

Yeah I tend to just go with the theory that Charr were naturally trying several options, and just were able to finalize them with human and Asura aide.

[Where are the airships built?]

1 hour ago, Morvran.8265 said:

GW2 writers don't care about worldbuilding or details like that. Things just spawn in when the writers want them.

Another great question is where do people learn magic? Apparently they just know it.

the writers do care about details like that, hence why the Pact often spent long periods of time rebuilding and recruiting to replenish their lost ranks before heading out in campaign.

[Where are the airships built?]

15 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

I am kind of surprised all these years that Anet has not atleast releasedone map that allow us to explore a spot where they have Airship being constructed.

Construction area that is focus on Airship production for each country (military and civilian use) and our allies is obviously somewhere but we never get to go there. 

Because Core areas don't often get changed, and there is some compression of the world. example being how LA, Kryta, and the Pact all have navies but we don't see it at all really.

10 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I don't recall there being any experiments with lighter-than-air flight in charr territory, though. Closest thing are the balloons used to travel for Queen's Jubilee and Four Winds, and that was done after the fact. It's possible that the basic idea for airships came from humans and the main charr input was in mechanical parts.

There is one event which is a Charr trying to get a helicopter flying, but that particular attempt fails.

[Where are the airships built?]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Design was a combined effort, yes, but the same is said of the Pact submersibles even though the Iron Barracuda exists. The original airship configuration looks vary charr externally, and as I commented, getting charr industrial capacity to sign on was one of the Pact goals before the full invasion of Orr.

I suspect, although I don't have any hard evidence beyond the circumstantial, is that with the Vigil, Priory, and Whispers not exactly having large factories available, the airships were designed by the collaboration of Pact engineers described, but most of the production was done by the charr. However, it's entirely likely that this involved a lot of prefabrication and some of the parts were made elsewhere. Lion's Arch is a strong possibility for the main hulls, for instance, both because they have experience with shipbuilding, appear to have their own airship production now, and because large pieces like that probably need to be constructed pretty close to where they're built. There might also be some pieces that are made in Kryta, and any asura tech in the design is probably made by Pact asura directly since non-Inquest asura don't really do mass production very well anyway.

My personal understanding of it was that the Charr had been working on it (Like the submarines and the helicopters of the two different models we've seen ingame used in diffierent areas) but hadn't been able to make the airship properly work under the humans and Asura stepped in and added their knowledge.

[Distortion disabled?]

The bug was perma distortion, somebody gave Anet the exact steps to replicate it.

[Why didn't the elder dragons just wipe out cities or use their minions like the Shatterer, the claw or tequatl to cause chaos throughout the entire world?]

11 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

From personal experience, being in extrem pain can make you very aggressive. Even if you would normally be a very kind person. 

Which is happening to kralk. 

I would not call that a dual personality. 

To use RL as a sad example. Injured stray cats and dogs will often snap and try to defend themselves against people trying to help them because the pain isn't letting them think straight.

[Where are the airships built?]

16 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Minor nitpick, but there is a discussion in an instance that reveals the existence of a bigger airship that "isn't ready yet" before you see the Glory of Tyria. 

On the OP - I suspect the first wave were built by the Legions. with human and asura engineers from the Pact providing additional touches. A large part of the point of the Citadel of Flames dungeon from the PC's perspective was getting the High Legions to make their industrial capacity available for the Pact. The Inquest (and through them the Aetherblades) acquired them through some form of industrial espionage or piracy, and they were probably spread to all of the capitals between the Dry Top and Silverwastes portions of Season 2).

It's mentioned that the reason the Airships work was a combined effort of Asura, Human, and Charr engineers working together which would have the originals be Pact, but then everybody else started getting them. EoD did give us variant airship classes on the smaller side though which I'd say probably existed for a while in general but weren't used by the Pact because lack of weapons.

[Where are the airships built?]

35 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

There's no good answer to be given here, we are never told where the Glory of Tyria was built or that we even had it until we see it... you'd think the commander of the pact would be previous to that information.

I wouldn't touch on that either, considering the Aerodrome features miniature ships.

Even in Orr you can fly up to the ships there if you're skilled enough only to contemplate how these ships are smaller than your Skyscale, forced perspective defeated by mounts.

 

They did compartmentalization of information because if you got killed and became Risen, Zhaitan knows. Also IIRC, it wasn't even fully ready by the time Arah assault started. And the Commander was a frontline champion, not a shot caller.

And there are some cases of perspective toying with size to make things look normal sized while the maps are smaller. This can be easily inferred that the Aerodrome is capable of handling full sized airships of the various "classes" we've seen throughout the base game and EoD.

[every class is a different flavor of advanced warrior at this point]

14 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Technically speaking, you could say reaper is a dark knight (I think one of their minors is even "Shroud Knight") and herald is a dragon knight.

Mind you, there is a degree to which those concepts are often on the boundary of warrior and something else. The "dark knight" archetype is often on the boundary between warrior and necromancer - ArenaNet chose to take it from the necromancer side, and I think that was the right call, since it means that you have multiple ways you can combine necromantic power with melee capabilities rather than slapping six utilities, a weapon, and a mechanic on warrior. Dragon knights are often somewhere on the boundary between warrior and elementalist - while thematically it's herald in GW2, there's actually a few ways to reproduce that playstyle in GW2, and some of them are on warrior. The paladin archetype is on the boundary of warrior and priest/cleric and ranger on the boundary of warrior and nature priest - we're just used to seeing them as separate classes because D&D came up with those archetypes before it came up with subclasses. GW2, I think, does have the freedom to decide whether those archetypes are going to be primarily coming from the warrior side or the non-warrior side, and in most cases it probably is going to fall more on the non-warrior side - if for no other reason than because they can only make so many warrior elite specialisations.

I don't see Reaper as dark knight or herald really as a dragon knight, personally. But the main problem I see in this topic, while being very interesting conversation to ponder is, what are we classifying as a "Warrior"? Are we talking themes? Gameplay? Combat role (damage)? What is the basis we are going from? The OP comes across as defining warrior as just melee combat/frontline stuff, but there is various angles you can take. 

In say, D&D or other settings I can see the argument where you have warrior/fighter as the base foundation, and then Paladin evolves from that by adding magic skills. But in GW2, (thematically and slightly gameplay), it's not the same. Warrior uses the sword, greatsword, or mace in one way. A guardian uses these weapons in a different way. 

 

I don't see the elite specs as "Advanced warrior" in theme or gameplay personally. 

[every class is a different flavor of advanced warrior at this point]

9 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

Does it matter? i'm just talking about in a general sense, funny how you say these are not in Guild Wars, when clearly we are not happy about the approach Anet has to warrior, that's literally the entire point.

so you still haven't respond to me, what makes a warrior, engineer, necromancer, guardian

bet you can't, because you never thought of it before making the "it doesn't make warrior" statement, while all the other classes elite specs will break any statement you make, except only the warrior ones.

unfortunately, i can't tell you what's a "warrior family type" when you can't even comprehend the fundamentals and differences of classes and elite specs, which you never thought about, yet you still commenting about it

What is a warrior? A soldier/adventurer that typically uses the more protective "heavy" armor, and is excellent at combat. He doesn't need fancy gadgets or magic to be a deadly force on the battlefield.

An Engineer is a tinkerer and alchemist, using gadgets and tools to expand their options of what they can do on the field and using those gadgets to shore up weaknesses they have.

A necromancer is a spellcaster they channels the power of death, using minions or destructive magic relating to the subjects of disease, corruption, curses, or decay. 

A guardian is a magic protective soldier. Using their magics to support their team by defense, healing, or empowerment. The very nature of how they use weapons is altered by this mindset.

Elite specs? Okay.

A Berserker has tapped into a much stronger rage, while some lean light fire magics, their focus is on hitting hard and fast. A spellbreaker is a warrior who focuses on being able to disrupt the enemy, breaking spells apart over using magic heavily themselves. A bladesworn is one who does have some tech, but it's in the form of the gunsaber mainly, and their focus on using that tool to the best effectiveness.

Scrappers are more melee-focused Engineers, using an array of remote drones (gyros) to boost their combat effectiveness and support their team. A holosmith focuses on using holograms and their sunforge, seeking to maximize those tools. A Mechanist is entirely focused on their combat jade mech, and using the war machine to support allies or quickly dispatch enemies.

A reaper does use a greatsword, but their focus is on, again, that destructive magic. Cold and chill behind every swing, every arc of their ghostly scythe in the shroud form. A scourge leans more into fire and the decay of a desert, sand and angry spirits stripping away at the enemy. Harbringer uses necromatic magic infused with alchemy to create deadly shards they fire from pistols or vials of concoctions thrown at enemy and friend alike.

A dragonhunter focuses on area denial and forcing enemies to fight where they want them to fight, and pins them down. A firebrand uses ancient pages of power and magic to massively support their allies, or hit the enemy hard. A willbender focuses on agility and movement to control the battlefield.

None of the elite specs go "Oh it's just a warrior" to me. Even if you view the elite specs as a "hybrid class" of sorts, that is equal parts of both classes. I understand not being happy, but the other classes aren't "warriors". If I look at the classes and elite specs, I don't pick a reaper or holosmith if I'm wanting a warrior. I pick a warrior.

[every class is a different flavor of advanced warrior at this point]

20 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

So what is the point of elite specs then?

how is dark knight/blood knight/dragon knight not part of warrior family that also has fancy gadgets?

and how is calling everything variants of warrior funny, there's a reason why i mentioned holosmith and not scrapper, willbender and not firebrand, holosmith and willbender are clearly more warrior type like than their original base class, that's not than just "attacking in melee"

While other classes do get "fancy magic or gadgets" they can also just choose to be warrior like and does none of those thing and just go pure brute force melee, but they can still choose to have those fancy magic or gadgets

while warrior does not have any choice, every elite specs are the same, every weapon feel the same, every trait does the same.

and what makes a warrior, you tell me, and what makes an engineer, necromancer, guardian, tell me.

what's funny is somehow there's magically all these non-warrior player comes out of nowhere and talk about something they don't care nor never thought about.

when i mained rev for HoT, holo for PoF and willy for EoD, as in taking them to raid fractal CM and clear the entire expansion PvE content and more, when these people can't even figure out how their main work.

 

Dark knight, blood knight, and dragon knight are not things in Guild wars? It's hard to tell what you mean by "Warrior family" at all. You seem to latch onto the melee elite specs of other classes and call them "advanced warriors" but I fail to see how that connection is made.

[every class is a different flavor of advanced warrior at this point]

On 6/14/2024 at 3:20 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

Or, possibly more to the point, a lot of elemental warrior themes can be done on other professions. Fire warrior? Guardian, berserker, even condi rev to a degree. Lightning warrior? Engineer hammer or spear. Ice warrior? Reaper. Earth warrior? Jalis rev (combine with Shiro or Glint).

People seem to forget that Warrior is the class that doesn't need fancy magic or gadgets, While the other classes do.

Though calling everything variants of warrior is kinda funny to me. Attacking in melee doesn't make you a warrior.

[Can more awakened be still created?]

2 hours ago, Trejgon.9367 said:

The funny part in here is that the wall did not collapse. Outer wall around the city was stable, what collapsed was the city segment between the outer wall and the inner circle section. Rebuilding of that into crowns pavilion did no changes to the wall itself.

There was a section of the wall that was gone, but it was rebuilt fully when they did the Pavilion.  https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/5/55/2013_July_Great_Collapse_Tent.jpg But that was the extent of the damage to it. 
 

[Can more awakened be still created?]

1 hour ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Sure, Centaurs were at it but sewer Drakes did it 🤣

Just gonna leave this here, because it's funny.

You literally cannot claim "Centaurs did it" and then immediately go "We have no idea what caused that portion of the wall to collaspe"

You would think that if the Centaurs literally managed to cause massive damage to a portion of the city, somebody would actually talk about that hmm?

Rather then the only time they've reached the walls being the human tutorial?

[Can more awakened be still created?]

1 hour ago, Trejgon.9367 said:

I have no idea where you got that from, divinity's reach walls were not blown up (and definitelly not to hell lol) by centaurs, like ever. The only time outer wall was breached, it was with massive surprise attack with huge magical bombardment by white mantle (in LWS3), that also involved infiltration team striking from the inside. And even then, they failed to do anything meaningful and were repelled back within scope of single story instance.

Thing is, the outer walls weren't even breached then. The White Mantle only got forces inside by mesmer portals, their bombardment did no damage and they didn't even get to try to breach the gates.

53 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

It collapsed sometime between 1324 and early 1325 AE due to a rushed construction and being placed atop a cavernous sinkhole which local Krytans had used as tombs in the past.

There are conflicting stories on what happened the night of the collapse.

There were also rumors of strange noises coming from the depths of the Great Collapse, which were associated with pre-existing rumors of stories of drakes living in the city's sewer system.

And none of that was caused by Centaurs. 

[Can more awakened be still created?]

7 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

However, in GW2, particularly Jahai Bluffs, it is widely treated like Joko was the only one who could create Awakened. All the priests and whatnot who created Awakened in Path of Fire did so by channeling Joko's energy. One of the major subplots of the episode is the Awakened dealing with the fact that they are once again mortal - if they die, they die for good this time. No more second chances.

I'd counter this with the core story of PoF which included the Awakened robbing graveyards north of the wall and even sabotaging some farms at the border so they could kill people for punishment and take them to be made Awakened and thrown at the enemy forces. The Necropolis judge event includes this as well, with people being sent to be Awakened. It's not quite like Joko was channeling power to them all, especially while chained up in the domain of the lost. And He has taught other necromancers his style of magics, even if some of them rebelled and fled (the scourges)

Jahai Bluffs was dealing with a loss of faith and direction for the Awakened, and while they may not be able to endlessly revive an Awakened, it doesn't perhaps mean they can't go and use the ritual on a living person.

7 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

I wouldn't say they're functionally immortal, as the Boneyard in Vabbi shows, the Awakened do decay and fall apart over time even with Joko's power maintaining them.

I'd include the Awakened in Jahai bluffs who has forgetten his former life entirely and has to be reminded of it. There is limits, but that could also be linked to how favored they are by Joko. Random servants/grunts fading faster then a skilled officer or champion.

9 hours ago, Trejgon.9367 said:

To elaborate on that, in core PoF story sunspears are not even a handful of survivors, scattered along whole continent. Discovery and securing of griffons post PoF is what allowed them to even start communicating. Additionally while it is possible to tell Amnoon to ally themselves with sunspears, their first reaction was suggestion is made, is doubting if they are even any left.

As for the people of Istan "starting" to get unhappy, it was my perception of Dawnbreak episode, that Istan was held under oppressive boot and unhappy for all this time. Temporary Joko absence, together with rebuilding of sunspears communications with griffon use allowed emergence of new spearmarshal, and staging of actual revolt with any hope of success. One thing that in geneal I took away from LWS4 Joko arc, is that only Vabbi had it nice with Joko, Kourna and Istan both have suffered under his reign (former as a vengeance for Turai Ossa, latter for being main hq for sunspears).

 

One thing that helped spark the rebellion was that with the damages caused by the invasion of Forged and Branded, the nobility/Vabbi was taking even more supplies then they normally did, causing resource shortages at Istan. This made the population uneasy and start rebelling, which the slowly regrowing sunspears took advantage of combined with a safe haven in the grand library.

[Flying kryptis? Sure. But does Eppie fly?]

25 minutes ago, Flowersunshine.7385 said:

Tbf I originally posted this in game discussion, because I do believe the map design is not consistent with the lore - and I think that's not a lore discussion, but a game design discussion. We got maps that made the skyscale relevant. The lore was adjusted to that, not the other way around.

I mean, I don't really think that's accurate?

The only flying heavy maps were soto, where the lore fits the design. Nayos is an alien world and The sections that we see actually with buildings/towns you can generally walk around without having to fly from building to building.

[Why didn't the elder dragons just wipe out cities or use their minions like the Shatterer, the claw or tequatl to cause chaos throughout the entire world?]

24 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

 

Mordremoth: I am everywhere. I am all.

Mordremoth: I am the only possible victor.

Mordremoth: I am power itself. I am life itself. To deny me is to embrace oblivion.

Mordremoth: You will all be consumed.

 

Mordemoth wanted to continue to devour magic.

Jormag was actually trying to get people to willingly align with them during the icebrood saga. Their whispers were for people to willingly give in and join.

[Can more awakened be still created?]

27 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Yet they built New Kaineng, the most impressive city in Tyria... So far... but getting rid of those risen was just too much for them.

Meanwhile Joko, who couldn't even get rid of Sunspears after donkey years cleared them right up...

Completely ignoring the whole aspect of New Kaineng is like maybe a fourth of the total size of Kaineng city from before, and the ruins of the city are collapsed and layered and literally filled with countless dead.

And you do know that Joko literally forced the sunspears into hiding and loner status and the only reason they actually reemerged was because outsider invasions (two at the same time) destablized the balance of power enough that people on Istan started getting unhappy, allowing the Sunspears a foothold to finally get recruits.

The sunspears were literally not even an issue of any shape or form until after Balthazar died. 

[Flying kryptis? Sure. But does Eppie fly?]

7 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Magic rift portals powered by plot which can bring characters where they need to be when the story needs them there but can't be used on demand for your convenience.

You seem to awfully dislike actually talking about any lore subjects for somebody who spends time in here.

 

[Why didn't the elder dragons just wipe out cities or use their minions like the Shatterer, the claw or tequatl to cause chaos throughout the entire world?]

1 hour ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Because elder dragons making speeches about conquering the world and domination was thought up by people that came in later with big ideas, not the original concept.

Yet pulling another Lion's Arch would just be way too expensive, so...

Or it's almost like different Dragons have entirely different goals and the only one actually wanting to cover the world in their influence was Jormag. 

[Can more awakened be still created?]

56 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

If risen are all the way down south, they'd also be all over the coast of Elona which is 10 times closer to Orr.

The coast of Elona which has landmass separating it as well as isn't just a straight shot from Orr. Plus Joko would've cleaned it up quickly, where as Cantha had to deal with the collaspe of Kaineng city which means removing sources of corruption and bodies is a huge task.

Also there is no reason why risen would ever be found in Drizzlewood coast, which is on the opposite side of Kryta and has no direct connection to the waters around Orr.