Mechanist as a condi elite spec

[Kodama.6453]

There is one issue which made me really disappointed about the condi variant of the mechanist, which still keeps to be an issue for the engineer class as a whole. If you want to play a condition dps build on engineer, you are still forced into a full kit setup.

People were asking for a simpler condition build on engineer for years already. While mechanist does simplify some mechanics, since it has an auto attacking pet to dish out dps, it still does not provide what people were actually asking for. This might be a miscommunication with Anet.

The problem with condition builds is that all condition damage skills worth slotting in the utility skill bar are located in kits. There are very little condition damage skills in our utility skills to begin with and the few which aren't kits can't compete with their damage output. 

• Elixirs are purely buff based, don't provide any condition damage at all.
• Turrets are mostly power based (rifle, thumper, rocket), with just 1 condition damage turret (flame). But flame turret doesn't deal enough condition damage on it's own.
• Gadgets are primarily power based as well, but rocket boots' toolbelt at least deals some burning.

Mechanist makes this problem even worse by removing the toolbelt, which means you can't even access the flame turret and rocket boots toolbelt for condition damage. Then it just adds 1 new condition utility skill with the signet.... which deals less condition damage than a concussion bomb from the bomb kit?

Anet, what we need in the future is a condition damage spec with utility skills dealing condition damage able to compete with kits. Holosmith achieved this build variety for power specs, since it adds laser disk and there are already strong power damage skills which are not kits thanks to rifle turrets toolbelt or minefield. The addition of a strong power weapon with sword also helped alot here.

I have no hope for mechanist to give us a simpler condition damage rotation anymore, but if there will ever be another elite spec for engineer in the future, please keep this in mind. Give us strong condition damage utility skills and a strong condition damage weapon (including strong auto attacks), so we can finally start using something else than kits.

[nucklepuckk.1805]

I posted about this in the feedback thread (page 3), but I think there could have been room in mechanist for a golem + turrent + pistol chilled out build, but they'd have to completely redo either the Tools or Inventions trait lines to actually have condition damage and golem synergy. Which they kind of pretended to do at least with Tools, but it's not enough and the degree to which it would need to change I seriously doubt will happen. 

The problem with core condition engineer isn't necessarily juggling kits. It's how many kits need to be juggled. Using Grenade 2-4-5, Bomb 2-3, Flamethrower 2-4, Mortar 2, and Pistol 2-3-4 is a lot. This could have been addressed with the golem, but the golem has no synergy with other engineer trait lines and doesn't build upon or change core engineer enough to replace a four kit set up. Compared to say, Elementalist, where you're mostly just bouncing back and forth between Fire and Air or Fire and Earth and get rewarded for doing it right (Overloads, or woven elements respectively), all the kit swapping doesn't feel very rewarding to execute. The mechanist doesn't change this. 

Essentially, the golem and it's traits aren't better than Bomb Kit, Flamethrower, or Mortar Kit, or at least not enough to warrant using the condi and elite signet. But these are simply numbers and numbers are easy to change. If the two signets were worth using over at least two kits, it would be at least improve upon core engineer. At least until you think about the AI anyway.

The larger issue with the mechanist trait line is that neither it nor the golem changes anything about the playstyle. You just lose the tool belt, which was never really the issue. There are no traits that increase bleed or burning, or proc on bleed or burning, or synergize with bleed or burning. To say nothing at all about the mace's confusion.   

Another big problem with condition engineer is Pistol 1. Pistol 1 is really bad and is a big part of the reason you dip into Mortar or Flamethrower at all. If Pistol 1 was better, you could drop a weaker kit, like say Mortar. Likewise, if we had more bleed orientated traits or bleed damage somewhere, or some boon proc on bleed or whatever, there would be less reason to use every kit. The mechanist doesn't fix this. 

Relatedly, another problem is Grenade Kit. I don't care particularly care that it's the best kit no matter how you build  an engineer, but Grenade Kit 1 being better than Pistol 1 and being a ground targeted ability unnecessarily increases the apm required to play. Simply making the grenade not ground targeted, or at least Grenade 1, and functioning like any other auto attack (like it does under water) would be a huge quality of life increase for engineers of all stripes. Or make Pistol 1 the superior choice, either way. 

And on the topic of Mortar Kit, it sucks, but you don't really have other choices. The Supply Drop is really lackluster, the Tornado elixir is whatever, Scrapper doesn't have any condition traits but Stealth Gyro is also niche and largely useless. The orbital strike F5 from Supply Drop doesn't do condition damage, but even if it did, you can't use tool kit with mechanist. So your options are Mortar Kit, or play Holosmith. And condi Holosmith is just a more convoluted power Holosmith. Mechanist kind of fixes this, but the jade canon (at least in the beta) was unreliable and also interruptible because the golem abilities don't follow the same queuing system as player abilities. I mentioned this in the feedback and bug thread, but who knows if it will be addressed. 

Mechanist doesn't fix any issues with condi engineer, and comes with a whole host of it's own problems. Condition engineer is a mess, and largely a mess that I don't think Anet has the willpower to fix.  

[Amadeus.5687]

I agree with what both of you said @Kodama.6453 @nucklepuckk.1805.

 

I would just like to add that Mechanist ain't solving the issue in PvP either, we have also been lacking a condition dmg focused Engineer build since pre HoT days when HGH Grenade were used.
But Mechanist fall flat and I it's because they are spreading it out to thin, trying to make it work with as both Power, Condition and Support. 

The fundamental issue we face right now trying to play a condition dmg build in PvP is that we only have enough pressure if we bring the all kit sit setup as in PvE, but that leaves us without stunbreaks and condition cleanse. Pistol/Pistol setup also leaves us without any real defences and mobility.

Long gone are the days were you could do enough pressure with just a grenade or bomb kit. 

And mechanist does nothing to solve this issue, mace is a lackluster condition dmg weapon in it's current state.
But even if it were to be buffed, there is no interesting interactions with condition dmg in the mechanist trait tree and on top of that it only makes the issue with lack of stunbreaks, condition cleanse and mobility even worse.

They had a perfect chance to make the elite spec focused around condition dmg gameplay, but they didn't. Heck they could either have made it super focus on confusion and had traits that impowered it, that would have made bomb kit the only really relevant other kit to use.

Personally I don't really mind that Engineer is all about lot's of different conditions either and they could have gone that route; They could also have gone the route of making our conditions last longer for each different condition applicated on the target, or stacking condition dmg up over time based on how many different conditions we have up.

Heck they could even have given us some interesting interaction between CC and conditions. 

Instead we get a lackluster mech that's forced into melee mode when doing conditions, can't keep up with a moving target and it deals soooo little condition dmg pressure it's irrelevant in the bigger picture.