Amadeus.5687

Siege Turtle sadly also suffer from this bug. EoD pets also suffer from poor UI (Not showing the tooltip on beast skills if you pick the beastmaster traits that make it blind, traunt ect.). They also suffer from random kitten like Turtle's beast skill not getting it's CD reduced from the beastmaster trait that reduce it. Like in general EoD pets super buggy, which is a shame, cause they are interesting, in special the siege turtle

There is no vipper stats in sPvP....

Ohhh noooo not poison, which a power build also can apply for the reduced healing effect! What are we to do about it! 😱 /S Healing is no different Vs condi then power. 5k health lost from power is the same as 5k lost from condition. If you heal 5k health you have the exact same result.

Have you heard that this maigcal healing slill you have found, also can help recover health lost to condition Damage? 😱 Shocking right? Maybe with this new found knowlegde you will actaully be able to play the game without feeling like those pesky conditions are sooooo unfair?

a tall order for a PvP community I agree that there is more sources of protection, there is also a lot more power damage going around. Whatever the 3 seconds of protection does more then the 3 seconds of resolution really depends on the given situation? Condition damage does not need to worry about crits, but we need to worry about cleanses. Power does not have to worry about ALL of their dmg being removed from one skill. Like you keep negating how big an impact condition cleanse is. I can play 100% flawless, set up the best condition burst on a player and one click negates everything. If I did the same on a power build that player would be dead. Your right that most builds don't even bother bringing pure condition removal utility; Because they don't have to. There is only a few condition damage builds going around atm. And most specs can easy manage what condition damage that goes around with sigils and trait picks. That's not a matter about the utility necessary being bad, and more a matter about you don't need to. That said both the meta Willbender, Untamed and Mechanist build rocks one (That's a stunbreak on top of it). Also as I mentioned earlier; There is sooo much AoE condition removal going on, that you have even less incentive to pick up your own. 5 condition is a lot, even 3 condition is a lot. And those 3 condition it remove now is also still AoE. 3 condition removed every 8 second can shut down pretty much any condition pressure when you combo it with evades, blocks ect. I mean this is so rich, revenant have been meta since HoT. They have been dominating the roaming damage dealer role every single season. This is the first time they ain't dominant, because Willbender is the same high damage mobility but they completely negate conditions. Which were one of the few things that could give the good ol' power herald some issues. I start to see why you complain about conditions. And looking at the forums, reddit and ingame it seems like most people find Willbender really unhealthy atm. I were simply pointing out that nothing is immune to power damage. That said I agree with this statement. Again this is just... Wrong. Like it's a false narrative. When I play my condition damage ranger I have few key abilities I use to deliver my condition with and the rest of the fight is about trying to setup these key skills. It's not different then power. Like I rely on my hard CC and soft CC as much as the power build to deliver it. Your right that condition damage build over time, they are DoT after all. But they are still delivered by key skills. Take shortbow again; You have auto attack that does bleeding, you have #2 which is your dmg skill, #3 is a defensive skill, skill #4 is a soft CC and #5 is a hard CC. There is not "spitting out conditions" here. You try to land #4 or #5 to close up shotgun with #2. I find condition damage very intuitive to both fight against and as, and I have played it since the game released. Core condition Engineer which I played the most out of everything being no different. As I said earlier; Condition damage is a much about setting up combos as power is. Stability is a much as an issue for condi as power, you need to land your hard CC aswell. Resistance while active negates soft CC completely (beside blind and weakness), soft CC can be easy removed by the abundance of condition cleanse that by far out number stun breaks and on top of that there is plenty of traits that reduce their duration or complelty negate specific ones like immobilize. On top of that you can still take action while under soft CC and use abilities, which gives you room to do counter play. Far more options then hard CC. Power is also dominant cause its simply stronger and far easier to play. When I face a Willbender he can literally just ignore what I do and pressure me to the max. Cause he can manage any Soft CC with F3 and ignore conditions with F2 (being hyperbolic here). The damage you take from power is instant, you don't get a "ahh kitten I missplayed, guess I just press this button to fix my mistakes". You get that vs conditions. With most condition removal being instant you don't even have to stop up, you can keep applying your pressure and just remove what gets tossed back at you. And yes conditions can kill you, you know what also always can kill you and you can't take a counter for? Power. Like what is it with people and being to annoyed about they can actually can die to Dots? You don't get hit by conditions randomly, they don't just spawn out of no where. Just like power skill you. have. to. land. your. skills What are you even on about here with stability? Stability is not a power counter. It's a counter vs hard CC which apply to any hard CC. And why is there no weakness for condition damage? I don't know, why is there no condition cleanse for power? Why can't I just you know press a button to complete negate the last 2 seconds of power damage I should have taken? Power is already by far the more dominant damage type, even with weakness in the game. Heck condition damage suffers far more in meta where there is plenty of support, because they can both negate our damage with cleanse AND recover the damage dealt with healing. Where they only get to heal damage done by power. Also just to finish this; Shadow Shot is an example of the core design of Thief and initiative. They get to spam the same skill over cause they don't have CD's. That's a specific design issue on Thief, not a general argument that be used for blinds in the game. Also you know that you can remove blind... by just doing a auto attack right? I start to feel like this entire topic is just you that have Issue with some specific elements cause of how they impact your preferred profession and try to make it a general problem. Which it ain't. I don't disagree with you that buffing stuff instead of always nerfing stuff can be the better options. But there is plenty of tools counters to condition already in the game.

Yeah both of these skills destroy the bolts from Tainted Bolts. Edit: Whirling Defence also reflects them. Are you sure they aren't reflected?

So you can't bother spending the time to make a prober topic, but expect people to look trough your videos to see you play around for an hour? Very sound logic So the first argument is Protection vs Resolution. Both reduce the dmg by 33%. Protection only works if you have it up the moment the power dmg hits you, are you 1 second to late with it the maul will deal it's full dmg. Resolution works if you have it up when conditions hit you AND you can apply it after the conditions have hit you. It's disadvantage is that it sometimes lack in duration as you say. Yeah that's seems perfectly balanced to me, both have it's weakness and strength Your next is "Complete immunity to power damage" So lets take this one first, what is immunity to power damage really can be,: Blocks Evade frames Invulnerability Skills that reduce power dmg taken to 0 dmg. Both block and Evades function vs condition dmg as much as they function vs power. Sure condition dmg will still tick on you if they got applied before you begin doing those two things. But there won't be applied any new conditions. "but that's different" you might claim; Not really, the 5k you lost instant from the maul attack right before you block is the same as the 5k bleeding you might take doing your block/evade duration. On top of that most condi cleanse is instant so you can apply it doing the block/evade Invulnerability negates both condi and power, it's been years since they changed it so condition dmg no longer apply dmg doing it either Skills that reduce power dmg taken to 0 dmg, is the only ones not effecting condition and you claim "those utility skills" have half the CD of condition cleanses lets take two examples: Warrior Endure Pain https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain 40 second CD Some of the condition removal utility you can take is https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Shake_It_Off!" 75 second recharge, but it got two charges, You can also pick a healing skill like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending with only 20 second CD Ranger have Signet of Stone https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Stone 40 sec CD a conditon removal utility could be https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Renewal 50 sec CD Or with elite specs https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mutate_Conditions 30 second CD So your statement is simply not true and here I'm completely ignoring that both of these professions have access to condition removal from trait lines as well. Rangers don't even bother with any of those two signets and most ranger builds have used survival skills + wilderness magic to fix any issue they might have with conditons. And this is me ignoring some of the ridiculous utility skills out there on other proffesions like Tree song https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tree_Song 3 condi removed with a 8 second CD Or some of the insane passive condition removal/transfer Necromancers can get from Spite traitline or Willbender from Virtues. If you mean some professions like harbinger is immune to power dmg because of blinds and weakness... Then I dunno what to tell you man. Go look at a MAT match or something and tell me how "immune" to dmg the harbringer is when a Willbender roll their face into them. There is maaaybe a debate to have about Weakness being to rampant on Harbringer. But that's mostly because of the high burst dmg and mobility that Harbringer have given Necromancers. Necromancers gamewise have been designed with very little evade/block/immunity and have to face tank dmg and try negate it with blinds, weakness and PLENTY of condition removal/transfer. It's really no different then how Guardians have a lot of boons, blocks ect as their active defense. ehhh you pretty much implied it when you claimed condition dmg should not be wary "unlike power because you have to be wary of Weakness, Protection and Blind ". Where you lump blind in with weakness and protection which in fact do not affect condition dmg. But we can let that one slide 😉 That said; It's a false narrative that condition dmg skills are more spammy, rabid, multiple hits ect. Quick successions of attacks is that cause damage whatever it's condition dmg or power damage. You don't see a Harbringer and Willbender "space out" all of their attacks when they teleport to you and do their dmg combo's. Some professions like Warriors suffers more from blinds and ageis because they by design have a lot of big strong single strike attacks. Mean while proffesions like Necromancers and Elementalist suffer less, cause they have more pulsing AoE attacks. But that have nothing to do with condition skills vs power skills, but profession design. There is plenty of single strike condition attacks, just as there is plenty of single strike power attacks. Like wise there is plenty of multi strike condition attacks, just like there is plenty of multis trike power attacks Heck take Ranger just as an example; Shortbow is the condi weapon and Longbow is the power weapon; Longbow have 2 attacks #3 and #5 that don't care about blind. Shortbow have #2 that don't care if in close range. Also I prefer fighting enemies that have active defence from blind over Aegis, simply because there is more counterplay with blind, I can cleanse it before I strike if I really wanna hit with my attack. Edit: Also another dimension to condition removal is how wide spread AoE condition removal have become. Plenty of that going around making it really hard to get condition dmg rolling in team fights at a "high burst" tempo. There is a reason power is the dominant king.

I feel I have to go test it 2morrow to make sure its allwys, but Untamed Enveloping Haze + Juveline siege turtles bubble both destroy the auto attacks

This just shows you don't play condition damage builds and in this thread completely ignore the repercussion that condition dmg face: Condition removal. Condition builds is a playstyle about timing, setup and opportunity as much as power is, if not more. Cause all of you dmg can be negated with a single skill press on most current meta builds. On top of that condition dmg skill also get blinded, blocked, evaded ect. just like power. You say it's not affected by blind simply shows your not "objective and impartial" as you claim in your signature lol.

Maybe, I'm not so sure that's the complete picture tho. The current Willbender and Untamed meta builds do both fill the role of a roaming damage deal, but you have more then one damage dealer on your team anyway. And Untamed trade more favorable against Harbringer which also sees a lot of play. The team that won the EU AT did bring both Willbender and Untamed and those two together nuked stuff. I also think two other factos play in: 1. Ranger being out of the MAT meta since forever, so very few ranger players on the teams that play it. 2. Untamed being kinda a dark horse in sPvP last season. Untamed gotten a lot of hate from PvE players and WvW players (justified I might add), but most of the problem in suffers from in those two game modes does not apply in sPvP. But it gave it a bad rep and no one really played it. in EU Plat1/Plat 2 where I played last season I met all most no untamed players besides Boyce. Where in the new season after the last MAT and a meta battle build people can copy have come up I see them pretty much every single game in Plat. You might very well be right it won't see much play next MAT either, time will tell. But I'm pretty sure Untamed's potential in sPvP have only begun getting explored.

A bit late to the topic, but så since its still going I feel like its worth pointing out that a team with a Untamed actaully where the ones to win the last EU AT. But besides that er did not see much play, but maybe the upcoming AT will have more.

The Untamed builds i posted all do condi + Fervent Force. I use quick draw for shortbow #5 and warhorn #5 that both counts towards Fervent Force. i also abuse the heck out of spile trap and its short cd for it. Also remember that the unleashed pet skills counts as your skills do Fervent Force apply to them for reduction of cd

I think you will get different answers from different ranger players tbh. I feel like you can make valid condition builds for Core ranger, Druid, Soulbeast and Untamed and they each bring something different. Druid can be very oppressive 1vs1 against some enemies that have a hard time dealing with the immobilize spam you can spit out. It can also be super fun in some team fights, dropping some AoE heals, condi clear and AoE stealth. But I feel the 25% stat reduction on pets really limit your options. Iboga as an example is left with barely 12k hp and drops like a fly. In WvW with the way you can pick stats yourself you can have some silly high condition dmg and sustian from healing. You can make some super sustainy condi soulbeast builds that focus on poison + with a bird pet and sword have great mobility and can zoom around. In WvW celestial stats in particular can make boon focused soulbeast super nasty Atm I personally prefer the Untamed, partly because it's new and new is fun. But as I said earlier in this thread it brings some nice new tools that works great in the current meta. The projectile destruction, boon rip and corruption, the instant blind when traited, larger control over pets (Some pet types suffer from this, while other benefit). Fervent Force is also just such a fun trait to make builds around 🙂 I'm not sure whatever I would say it's the "best" of the options and in WvW roaming it certainly lacks the in combat mobility of Soulbeast and it can't match the sustain of the druid. But it got the tools to deal with popular roamers like a Power pew pew longbow soulbeast 🙂

oh yeah for sure, I do love playing druid aswell, and totally get you 🙂 I just wanted to add in that I do think Untamed is valid for a condition setup, in special because the core weapons and traits of Ranger allready create solid condition builds. I'm sure celestial hybrid untamed is valid, I mostly do sPvP these days and celestial sadly aint a thing there.

For PvE Soulbeast ofc is best for dmg. But in PvP/WvW Untamed very much have a role, not as a super high dmg trait tree, but as a more defensive/utility trait tree. If you go condi you go 3/3/1. Untamed brings nice cover conditions and boon rip from the pet unleashed skills. Blinding Outburst gives you access to some very juicy and spammy instant blinds. When you run untamed as condi you don't care much about being unleashed youself, so you enjoy the 15% reduced strike dmg + sustain from ambush attacks. Untamed also comes with stronger pets then druid, both because they don't have the 25% stat reduction, but also because you can control when key skills are used.