Virtuoso makes more sense as a roamer than a zerger.

[Linnael.1069]

I see a lot of people pushing for more large scale viability for virtuoso but I fear that is a lost cause. To me the design with no inherent durability, projectile focus, etc. all make more sense for a small scale roaming build. You build up daggers between fights and burst hard as a +1, using blink and stealth to get out. 
 

I feel the focus of our beta 4 feedback should be aiming to improve this angle, especially because Mesmer already has some viable zerg builds. Trying to make virtuoso fit there would be like trying to make deadeye a zerger. Let’s instead ask for instant cast shatters, mobility/swiftness, stealth, way better stunbreaks and condi cleanse. 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Linnael.1069

[Leonidrex.5649]

27 minutes ago, Linnael.1069 said:

I see a lot of people pushing for more large scale viability for virtuoso but I fear that is a lost cause. To me the design with no inherent durability, projectile focus, etc. all make more sense for a small scale roaming build. You build up daggers between fights and burst hard as a +1, using blink and stealth to get out. 
 

I feel the focus of our beta 4 feedback should be aiming to improve this angle, especially because Mesmer already has some viable zerg builds. Trying to make virtuoso fit there would be like trying to make deadeye a zerger. Let’s instead ask for instant cast shatters, mobility/swiftness, stealth, way better stunbreaks and condi cleanse. 

every single mesmer build be it core, mirage or chrono is better as a roamer. we dont need another one

[Linnael.1069]

1 hour ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

every single mesmer build be it core, mirage or chrono is better as a roamer. we dont need another one

Chrono is in the meta for zergs and quite mediocre at roaming, your statement is just inaccurate.

[Leonidrex.5649]

3 minutes ago, Linnael.1069 said:

Chrono is in the meta for zergs and quite mediocre at roaming, your statement is just inaccurate.

I was speaking more about pvp, as wvw has no balance whatsoever so its not even worth considering 

[Linnael.1069]

If you are going to forget about one game mode pretty sure most people would prefer anet forget about pvp.

[Leonidrex.5649]

17 minutes ago, Linnael.1069 said:

If you are going to forget about one game mode pretty sure most people would prefer anet forget about pvp.

even if you consider wvw, then you can roam much better on core/mirage already, I dont see the reason to add virtuoso which will do the same thing power mirage, they gave it aoe skills, if F skills are not projectiles virt could be very good dps for WvW.

[Iavra.8510]

Mesmer in general is better suited for roaming, simply because clones don't work in large scale fights. Virtuoso getting rid of them in theory makes it more suited for zerg fights if everything else wasn't so bad about it. It would be cool, if the new shatters all were ground-targeted AoE. They can still show the projectiles flying, but just have them not "be" projectiles.

[Salt Mode.3780]

Roaming wise virtuoso will fall short.

Lets look at the top 2 roaming classes....

Thieves, natural counters to mesmer, even with Mirage 2 dodge DE, and SA DrD thieves completely stomp them. How is Virtuoso going to compete...?

Rangers, actual range class with high projectile speed along with combos to stealth engage and disengage. Pets that actually hurt and can be abused with strong kitten traits synergized with utilities.

Everything else either has a hard engage ability or a hard disengage ability with tons of boon uptime on their skills, nothing Virtuoso offers that. I don't understand how this is a strong roaming class if anything since they added the unblockable just try to get it up and shatter range because it "pierces" as well.

Overall for roaming Core/Mirage is still going to always beat out Virtuoso in the roaming spot. Even chrono can roam better then Virtuoso.

Virtuoso is a sitting duck with no real defensive capabilities and no self peel for a 1200 range class that prefers to say mid range for maximum damage....but this class design apparently made sense to ANET devs.

[Xenesis.6389]

/scratches head

Three aoe utility skills, one frontal piercing elite skill, three piercing dagger skills, two piercing shatters, one aoe shatter.

Taking away physical defensive misdirection with the clones now being blades.

Shatters have cast times and projectile times and requires los front targeting.

The trait line is practically another version of the Dueling trait line.

You're going to have to fill up your utility slots with the same skills you use for regular roaming mesmer builds, there goes half the aoes(the whole point of the spec), you're probably going to have to use defensive trait lines to make up for it's defenses, chaos for manipulation skills and stealth traits, cause you're going to rely on blink and stealth a lot and maybe even the staff.

Or I suppose you can go super glass and try to one shot zerk gear people in stealth, do they even have the burst potential for that?

They can hand out shadowstepping wells to specter, willbenders flipping around like ninjas, but in the same expansion can't even give virtuoso any mobility at all?

 

Annnnd you really think this is more of a roaming spec than zerg spec? Can be the lame duck sitting behind allies and hope no one notices you role I guess.

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

On 11/27/2021 at 10:28 AM, Linnael.1069 said:

Chrono is in the meta for zergs and quite mediocre at roaming, your statement is just inaccurate.

It's meta to have a single purely support chrono for an entire zerg. Single, as in one. One that literally does no damage and is disgustingly boring to play. And only usable in very large scale battles otherwise it is completely and utterly useless.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Ronald McDonald.8165