Rasimir.6239 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 32 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said: I did answer this already. More varied engagement pattern. Content that took *a lot* of devtime to make gets interacted with more. People engage with that stuff instead of just the hyper-rewarding farms. I still don't get it. All you have is some arbitrary number from a 3rd party website based on data from a subset of players that engage(d) with the game in a way that lead them to even use that 3rd party website. No matter how you look at it, these numbers simply don't give the full picture. The only one that has the numbers that give a full picture is ANet. They know exactly how many accounts there are, what the statistics are on those accounts, and have the tools to put them together to get the full picture. One of my daughters, for example, has quite a lot of play hours, but mostly plays WvW and a bit of sPvP. She doesn't care about PvE, and has yet to even play through the personal story once. You only see "no personal story completion" and come to the conclusion "personal story rewards bad, need to be fixed". ANet on the other hand sees somebody who enjoys the competitive side of the game, which is totally fine. You're starting out with assumptions based on an incomplete data set, spruce that up with anecdotal evidence from yourself and the people you interact with, and come to conclusions that you present as "this has to be done, or this content is doomed". That's not how analysis works. You don't even know how varied the engagement patterns of the playerbase as a whole are, and if the game really is dominated by the reward-driven players that only "engage with hyper-rewarding farms". Judging from the way ANet has shaped the game over the last 9.5 years, I'd expect them to react if they see a need to react. Neither you or me have the data to know if this is necessary. As such at best the personal story rewards aren't an issue. At worst boostering the story rewards to give more unique (or at least hard to get) shinies will hurt the game by driving away people that don't enjoy story content in the first place. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted February 16, 2022 Author Share Posted February 16, 2022 15 minutes ago, Rasimir.6239 said: All you have is. . . You have nothing, though. Your argument rests on "you can't know for sure". 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungozen.2379 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said: HoT and PoF aren't free, though. I did point out that PoF does have at least one set of rewards, the Raise the Banners achievements, that are an example of the game pushing players to repeat the Story content. HoT has Dream Warrior, which asks you to replay the final sequence 3 times in Hearts and Minds as part of the Heart of Thorns Act IV Mastery Meta achievement, earning you an Ascended Amulet. 3 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said: The achievements breakdown on gw2e confirms my point, though: 60% of the players complete a story, 10% complete an achievement that require you to do it more than once. I am interested however, what is the achievement you were referring to here? Can you link the GW2E page you are pulling this info from? Edited February 16, 2022 by Mungo Zen.9364 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted February 16, 2022 Author Share Posted February 16, 2022 Just now, Mungo Zen.9364 said: I did point out that PoF does have at least one set of rewards, the Raise the Banners achievements, that are an example of the game pushing players to repeat the Story content for different rewards. But... I already pointed that out. Right there in the OP. Clearly stated. In fact, it is a tool used to see what percentage of the population actually engage with the story at all. You can correlate the unlocked non-final backpieces with the finished ones. Skin unlocks: Banners of, for example. The 3 different story banners unlocked sum up to 43,03+41,3+22,36=106.69. So, 6.69% of the players on gw2e played enough of Act I of PoF to reach Blazing a Trail twice, and have opted to unlock a backpiece that they didn't unlock previously. The first banner indicates that 58,75% bothered to finish the story. Now, bear in mind, this is gw2e stats. Normally, the site only attracts "a tiny bit more serious" players to it. Is it definitive proof, does it paint a complete picture? No, not at all. But it is indicative, for sure. 1 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 So, I guess that indicates that offering more rewards doesn't really incentivize players to repeat the story content. 🤷♂️ 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted February 16, 2022 Author Share Posted February 16, 2022 More? More compared to what? 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasimir.6239 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 33 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said: You have nothing, though. Your argument rests on "you can't know for sure". You do realize that you're the one arguing without a solid base here, right? If I have "nothing", then you have even less than that. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted February 16, 2022 Author Share Posted February 16, 2022 8 minutes ago, Rasimir.6239 said: You do realize that you're the one arguing without a solid base here, right? If I have "nothing", then you have even less than that. How exactly you figure that? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungozen.2379 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 1 minute ago, The Boz.2038 said: Normally, the site only attracts "a tiny bit more serious" players to it. Is it definitive proof, does it paint a complete picture? No, not at all. But it is indicative, for sure. Been digging around on GW2E and noticed something: Returning Champion - 35,738 of 362,754 (9.852%) This is the Title that comes from completing Seasons of the Dragons. This achievement rewards a Legendary Trinket and yet less than 10% of registered users have completed it? What does this point to? That GW2E does not have valid numbers to work from? That GW2E is mostly casuals who don't play the content? That a Legendary item isn't strong enough to draw people to play the story? That the story is so bad people don't want to repeat it? That is the problem with these numbers, we can draw all manner of conclusions and while we can't be proven wrong, we can't be proven right either. What we can say is that not all players play the story through to the end, but some do. Some players do not care to repeat the story, but others, do. We do not know what the motivation is for why or why not they play it. Personally, I did play through the entire story again for the 4th time, specifically for Seasons of the Dragons as the rewards were well worth it. The first 3 times, I didn't care about the rewards, it was all about enjoying the story, and playing with friends. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted February 16, 2022 Author Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) You are comparing it to an entire fully completed achievement. Like, should I point to any legendary and claim "see, legendaries aren't a motivator at all, because few people have this particular one"? And even with that, that's almost half again as many full- and re-plays of the Seasons as there are of PoF. Huh. Edited February 16, 2022 by The Boz.2038 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungozen.2379 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said: You are comparing it to an entire fully completed achievement. Like, should I point to any legendary and claim "see, legendaries aren't a motivator at all, because few people have this particular one"? And even with that, that's almost half again as many full- and re-plays of the Seasons as there are of PoF. Huh. 56 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said: You can correlate the unlocked non-final backpieces with the finished ones. Skin unlocks: Banners of, for example. The 3 different story banners unlocked sum up to 43,03+41,3+22,36=106.69. So, 6.69% of the players on gw2e played enough of Act I of PoF to reach Blazing a Trail twice, and have opted to unlock a backpiece that they didn't unlock previously. The first banner indicates that 58,75% bothered to finish the story. I ignored the math the first time, but now I am looking at it and, I don't think you can draw that conclusion with that calculation. 77% of players registered to GW2E have completed Blazing a Trail at least once. We do not know how many have completed it a second, third or more times. As well, we know that 2.7% of players have completed Raise the Banners: Amnoon Arbitrator which requires all 3 banners be finished. Your calculation doesn't approach the 3 Banner scenario, simply falling short at 2. Moving away from Percentages (with a little rounding) 272,000 people completed Blazing a Trail once. We know that players chose a second OR third banner 115,000 times. We have no way of dividing down that 115,000 into Second and Third choices though. And, if someone chose the same banner multiple times, that is also not represented with the stats available. A player could always choose the same thing and it would only show up as a single entry. I could keep going but, I will remind you of what I said in a prior post: 57 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said: That is the problem with these numbers, we can draw all manner of conclusions and while we can't be proven wrong, we can't be proven right either. I was wrong, you can be proven incorrect. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted February 16, 2022 Author Share Posted February 16, 2022 "Proven incorrect" doesn't mean "your data is not fully reliable". You just proved what I already said, that it isn't definitive, but clear inferences can be easily made. As counterargument, you offer nothing, though. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchslein.8639 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Imagine the day Player argue against better rewards, like some exo's for ectos or 1 blk at every Story-finale. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum Moderator.3419 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Hello Everyone, I'm locking this thread as it's just bickering. Regards. 2 3 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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