Is cPS going of the meta?

[SrebX.6498]

I hate being the one to post the whiny stuff, but this makes me seriously worriedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17s9ntMg01M

Are we going out of the PvE meta? If Druid can take our position as might providers and heal at the same time, I'm not foreseeing a good bright future.Obviously it's pretty early to say, but it's not looking good.

[Mikeskies.1536]

Condi DPS is going to be the new meta with both banners and still over 30k DPS.

Edit: 30.5k DPS with Realistic buffs.

[Markus.9162]

Like Mikeskies already said, warrior still have his banners which are important enough to take him.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Mikeskies.1536 said:Condi DPS is going to be the new meta with both banners and still over 30k DPS.

Edit: 30.5k DPS with Realistic buffs.

This.

Basically warrior is down to 1 fixed banner spot (down from 2 fixed spots for banners and might) and any number of dps spots as condi dps.

[Dragon.2046]

Yeah, I just tried the new Druid and it's Grace of the Land is insane.. keeping 25 might for 10 people. It doesn't look good for CPS but I am pretty sure like what the others said. CDPS is alive and kicking!

[Mikeskies.1536]

@Dragon.2046 said:Yeah, I just tried the new Druid and it's Grace of the Land is insane.. keeping 25 might for 10 people. It doesn't look good for CPS but I am pretty sure like what the others said. CDPS is alive and kicking!

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:Condi DPS is going to be the new meta with both banners and still over 30k DPS.

Edit: 30.5k DPS with Realistic buffs.

This.

Basically warrior is down to 1 fixed banner spot (down from 2 fixed spots for banners and might) and any number of dps spots as condi dps.

Yup. I tested a lot of DPS builds last night. All seemed to settle around 30k DPS. Nerfs combined with 3k DPS loss from GOTL rework brought all the overperforming specs down a notch.

[tonny.7580]

2 druids can might stack much better then cps but cwar is good dps adlist but it good by better if the chance tactis line 2 burning arrow to line 3 and replice powerful synergy or vigours shout soo we can still keep EA for group and to nice dps

[Mister Asdasd.6194]

Prepare for grace of the land stack or duration nerfs, we cant have nice things in this game they nerf them to the ground

[Mikeskies.1536]

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:Prepare for grace of the land stack or duration nerfs, we cant have nice things in this game they nerf them to the ground

I don't think so. I made a post in Ranger forum and ArenaNet responded saying its intended how it is.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:Prepare for grace of the land stack or duration nerfs, we cant have nice things in this game they nerf them to the ground

I don't think so. I made a post in Ranger forum and ArenaNet responded saying its intended how it is.

Yes, for ranger it's how they intended it, for us they're intending to nerf us into oblivion.

[Mister Asdasd.6194]

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:Prepare for grace of the land stack or duration nerfs, we cant have nice things in this game they nerf them to the ground

I don't think so. I made a post in Ranger forum and ArenaNet responded saying its intended how it is.

isnt every balance update supposed to be as intended? Otherwise they wouldnt release it. Give it time they will gut it for no reason. Seriously there was no reason for grace of the land changes other than making druid less desirable and to shit on warrior even more by making him redundant now that druid has better might giving abilitites,that little niche the warrior had was his phalanx strenght and banners, now will banners alone justify having warrior on the team or will there be an alternative to the banners that will give more damage and survivability?

[Mikeskies.1536]

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:Prepare for grace of the land stack or duration nerfs, we cant have nice things in this game they nerf them to the ground

I don't think so. I made a post in Ranger forum and ArenaNet responded saying its intended how it is.

isnt every balance update supposed to be as intended? Otherwise they wouldnt release it. Give it time they will gut it for no reason. Seriously there was no reason for grace of the land changes other than making druid less desirable and to kitten on warrior even more by making him redundant now that druid has better might giving abilitites,that little niche the warrior had was his phalanx strenght and banners, now will banners alone justify having warrior on the team or will there be an alternative to the banners that will give more damage and survivability?

Banners are still very strong DPS buffs. Even if Banners weren't needed, cDPS brings competitive DPS in its own right, as it wasn't nerfed in this patch, unlike everyone else. Also, cDPS brings supplemental might by blasting banners on Torch 5 and blasting Bow 3 on Bow Primal Burst, if needed.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:Prepare for grace of the land stack or duration nerfs, we cant have nice things in this game they nerf them to the ground

I don't think so. I made a post in Ranger forum and ArenaNet responded saying its intended how it is.

isnt every balance update supposed to be as intended? Otherwise they wouldnt release it. Give it time they will gut it for no reason. Seriously there was no reason for grace of the land changes other than making druid less desirable and to kitten on warrior even more by making him redundant now that druid has better might giving abilitites,that little niche the warrior had was his phalanx strenght and banners, now will banners alone justify having warrior on the team or will there be an alternative to the banners that will give more damage and survivability?

Banners are still very strong DPS buffs. Even if Banners weren't needed, cDPS brings competitive DPS in its own right, as it wasn't nerfed in this patch, unlike everyone else. Also, cDPS brings supplemental might by blasting banners on Torch 5 and blasting Bow 3 on Bow Primal Burst, if needed.

Yes but they're working on making us less viable one step at a time, they've already started by handing over our might stacking to another class that already has a VERY big roll in raids.

[Mikeskies.1536]

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:Prepare for grace of the land stack or duration nerfs, we cant have nice things in this game they nerf them to the ground

I don't think so. I made a post in Ranger forum and ArenaNet responded saying its intended how it is.

isnt every balance update supposed to be as intended? Otherwise they wouldnt release it. Give it time they will gut it for no reason. Seriously there was no reason for grace of the land changes other than making druid less desirable and to kitten on warrior even more by making him redundant now that druid has better might giving abilitites,that little niche the warrior had was his phalanx strenght and banners, now will banners alone justify having warrior on the team or will there be an alternative to the banners that will give more damage and survivability?

Banners are still very strong DPS buffs. Even if Banners weren't needed, cDPS brings competitive DPS in its own right, as it wasn't nerfed in this patch, unlike everyone else. Also, cDPS brings supplemental might by blasting banners on Torch 5 and blasting Bow 3 on Bow Primal Burst, if needed.

Yes but they're working on making us less viable one step at a time, they've already started by handing over our might stacking to another class that already has a VERY big roll in raids.

They're never going to delete Banners. And it opens flexibility for some groups to not even run a druid at all, and have a Soulbeast and cPS warrior.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:Prepare for grace of the land stack or duration nerfs, we cant have nice things in this game they nerf them to the ground

I don't think so. I made a post in Ranger forum and ArenaNet responded saying its intended how it is.

isnt every balance update supposed to be as intended? Otherwise they wouldnt release it. Give it time they will gut it for no reason. Seriously there was no reason for grace of the land changes other than making druid less desirable and to kitten on warrior even more by making him redundant now that druid has better might giving abilitites,that little niche the warrior had was his phalanx strenght and banners, now will banners alone justify having warrior on the team or will there be an alternative to the banners that will give more damage and survivability?

Banners are still very strong DPS buffs. Even if Banners weren't needed, cDPS brings competitive DPS in its own right, as it wasn't nerfed in this patch, unlike everyone else. Also, cDPS brings supplemental might by blasting banners on Torch 5 and blasting Bow 3 on Bow Primal Burst, if needed.

Yes but they're working on making us less viable one step at a time, they've already started by handing over our might stacking to another class that already has a VERY big roll in raids.

While at the same time removing the main reason for taking that class (druid GotL was changed). They basically compressed the support roles into 2 instead of 4 characters. 1 Druid can now keep up 25 stacks of might versus 2 cPS, 1 cPS can bring 2 banners instead of 2 cPS and a heal spot opened up for tempests or revenants. We are now looking at 1 druid, 1 warrior and 1 healer which fill the role of double druid and double warrior before.

cDPS still sees very good numbers and has insane cleave as well as very good cc which makes it a strong contender for 1 of the now 5 dps spots.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:Prepare for grace of the land stack or duration nerfs, we cant have nice things in this game they nerf them to the ground

I don't think so. I made a post in Ranger forum and ArenaNet responded saying its intended how it is.

isnt every balance update supposed to be as intended? Otherwise they wouldnt release it. Give it time they will gut it for no reason. Seriously there was no reason for grace of the land changes other than making druid less desirable and to kitten on warrior even more by making him redundant now that druid has better might giving abilitites,that little niche the warrior had was his phalanx strenght and banners, now will banners alone justify having warrior on the team or will there be an alternative to the banners that will give more damage and survivability?

Banners are still very strong DPS buffs. Even if Banners weren't needed, cDPS brings competitive DPS in its own right, as it wasn't nerfed in this patch, unlike everyone else. Also, cDPS brings supplemental might by blasting banners on Torch 5 and blasting Bow 3 on Bow Primal Burst, if needed.

Yes but they're working on making us less viable one step at a time, they've already started by handing over our might stacking to another class that already has a VERY big roll in raids.

They're never going to delete Banners. And it opens flexibility for some groups to not even run a druid at all, and have a Soulbeast and cPS warrior.

They might not delete them but they might make other classes have something more viable.

[SrebX.6498]

Yep, Warrior is still necessary for the Banners. It's just that the whole Warrior class starts to feel like a sinking ship (PvE-wise) after we've been having a very steady and important place in it. A place where it wasn't OP (A bit more powerful than fair at times, yes, but not OP) but it was still very strong. Now we're kinda losing our place and it worries me.cDPS isn't a very strong DPSer, there are much better DPSers, so it looks like the only thing still keeping us in comps is our banners, which we'll now HAVE to run both of them, which means only 1 available skills.

[Oglaf.1074]

Warriors going from a guaranteed 2 spots in a raid to 1 (with dual Banners) is definitely a setback for all Warrior mains who want to raid, for sure.

[Mikeskies.1536]

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:Prepare for grace of the land stack or duration nerfs, we cant have nice things in this game they nerf them to the ground

I don't think so. I made a post in Ranger forum and ArenaNet responded saying its intended how it is.

isnt every balance update supposed to be as intended? Otherwise they wouldnt release it. Give it time they will gut it for no reason. Seriously there was no reason for grace of the land changes other than making druid less desirable and to kitten on warrior even more by making him redundant now that druid has better might giving abilitites,that little niche the warrior had was his phalanx strenght and banners, now will banners alone justify having warrior on the team or will there be an alternative to the banners that will give more damage and survivability?

Banners are still very strong DPS buffs. Even if Banners weren't needed, cDPS brings competitive DPS in its own right, as it wasn't nerfed in this patch, unlike everyone else. Also, cDPS brings supplemental might by blasting banners on Torch 5 and blasting Bow 3 on Bow Primal Burst, if needed.

Yes but they're working on making us less viable one step at a time, they've already started by handing over our might stacking to another class that already has a VERY big roll in raids.

They're never going to delete Banners. And it opens flexibility for some groups to not even run a druid at all, and have a Soulbeast and cPS warrior.

They might not delete them but they might make other classes have something more viable.

If they ever did that, the same thing would happen to Ranger Spirits and no specialization would have > @SrebX.6498 said:

Yep, Warrior is still necessary for the Banners. It's just that the whole Warrior class starts to feel like a sinking ship (PvE-wise) after we've been having a very steady and important place in it. A place where it wasn't OP (A bit more powerful than fair at times, yes, but not OP) but it was still very strong. Now we're kinda losing our place and it worries me.cDPS isn't a very strong DPSer, there are much better DPSers, so it looks like the only thing still keeping us in comps is our banners, which we'll now HAVE to run both of them, which means only 1 available skills.

cDPS is a strong DPSer. It's clocking in at 32k DPS post-patch. All over performing specs pre-patch were nerfed. The only spec that received actual buffs was Holosmith. Once the benchmarks are out, I suspect only Weaver and Holosmith will be more than 1k DPS ahead.

Also, having to run both banners is only a 1.5k DPS loss, as opposed to Signet of Fury and Outrage.

[ButterPeanut.9746]

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:Prepare for grace of the land stack or duration nerfs, we cant have nice things in this game they nerf them to the ground

I don't think so. I made a post in Ranger forum and ArenaNet responded saying its intended how it is.

isnt every balance update supposed to be as intended? Otherwise they wouldnt release it. Give it time they will gut it for no reason. Seriously there was no reason for grace of the land changes other than making druid less desirable and to kitten on warrior even more by making him redundant now that druid has better might giving abilitites,that little niche the warrior had was his phalanx strenght and banners, now will banners alone justify having warrior on the team or will there be an alternative to the banners that will give more damage and survivability?

Banners are still very strong DPS buffs. Even if Banners weren't needed, cDPS brings competitive DPS in its own right, as it wasn't nerfed in this patch, unlike everyone else. Also, cDPS brings supplemental might by blasting banners on Torch 5 and blasting Bow 3 on Bow Primal Burst, if needed.

Yes but they're working on making us less viable one step at a time, they've already started by handing over our might stacking to another class that already has a VERY big roll in raids.

They're never going to delete Banners. And it opens flexibility for some groups to not even run a druid at all, and have a Soulbeast and cPS warrior.

They might not delete them but they might make other classes have something more viable.

If they ever did that, the same thing would happen to Ranger Spirits and no specialization would have > @SrebX.6498 said:

Yep, Warrior is still necessary for the Banners. It's just that the whole Warrior class starts to feel like a sinking ship (PvE-wise) after we've been having a very steady and important place in it. A place where it wasn't OP (A bit more powerful than fair at times, yes, but not OP) but it was still very strong. Now we're kinda losing our place and it worries me.cDPS isn't a very strong DPSer, there are much better DPSers, so it looks like the only thing still keeping us in comps is our banners, which we'll now HAVE to run both of them, which means only 1 available skills.

cDPS is a strong DPSer. It's clocking in at 32k DPS post-patch. All over performing specs pre-patch were nerfed. The only spec that received actual buffs was Holosmith. Once the benchmarks are out, I suspect only Weaver and Holosmith will be more than 1k DPS ahead.

Also, having to run both banners is only a 1.5k DPS loss, as opposed to Signet of Fury and Outrage.

We haven't seen the full analysis, but IMO one other factor is that the difference between cDPS warrior and cPS warrior is pretty small too. It used to only be around 3-5k pending on a number of factors.

There are other viable might stacking builds now, but IMO if you are going to bring a warrior you might as well still take PS and might stack. This may not be true for all bosses or all groups, but the might is much more consistent than druid for example.

[Mikeskies.1536]

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:Prepare for grace of the land stack or duration nerfs, we cant have nice things in this game they nerf them to the ground

I don't think so. I made a post in Ranger forum and ArenaNet responded saying its intended how it is.

isnt every balance update supposed to be as intended? Otherwise they wouldnt release it. Give it time they will gut it for no reason. Seriously there was no reason for grace of the land changes other than making druid less desirable and to kitten on warrior even more by making him redundant now that druid has better might giving abilitites,that little niche the warrior had was his phalanx strenght and banners, now will banners alone justify having warrior on the team or will there be an alternative to the banners that will give more damage and survivability?

Banners are still very strong DPS buffs. Even if Banners weren't needed, cDPS brings competitive DPS in its own right, as it wasn't nerfed in this patch, unlike everyone else. Also, cDPS brings supplemental might by blasting banners on Torch 5 and blasting Bow 3 on Bow Primal Burst, if needed.

Yes but they're working on making us less viable one step at a time, they've already started by handing over our might stacking to another class that already has a VERY big roll in raids.

They're never going to delete Banners. And it opens flexibility for some groups to not even run a druid at all, and have a Soulbeast and cPS warrior.

They might not delete them but they might make other classes have something more viable.

If they ever did that, the same thing would happen to Ranger Spirits and no specialization would have > @SrebX.6498 said:

Yep, Warrior is still necessary for the Banners. It's just that the whole Warrior class starts to feel like a sinking ship (PvE-wise) after we've been having a very steady and important place in it. A place where it wasn't OP (A bit more powerful than fair at times, yes, but not OP) but it was still very strong. Now we're kinda losing our place and it worries me.cDPS isn't a very strong DPSer, there are much better DPSers, so it looks like the only thing still keeping us in comps is our banners, which we'll now HAVE to run both of them, which means only 1 available skills.

cDPS is a strong DPSer. It's clocking in at 32k DPS post-patch. All over performing specs pre-patch were nerfed. The only spec that received actual buffs was Holosmith. Once the benchmarks are out, I suspect only Weaver and Holosmith will be more than 1k DPS ahead.

Also, having to run both banners is only a 1.5k DPS loss, as opposed to Signet of Fury and Outrage.

We haven't seen the full analysis, but IMO one other factor is that the difference between cDPS warrior and cPS warrior is pretty small too. It used to only be around 3-5k pending on a number of factors.

There are other viable might stacking builds now, but IMO if you are going to bring a warrior you might as well still take PS and might stack. This may not be true for all bosses or all groups, but the might is much more consistent than druid for example.

cPS is around 27k DPS. I don't think you need to run cPS. If needed, you can always blast fire fields with LB3 or switch to PS and equip FGJ to fill in the gaps. I think default build should be cDPS though in terms of gear setup.