A Message About the Mount Adoption License

[zealex.9410]

@Daralii.8940 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@StaggerLee.6397 said:Is a mount skin being $5 really considered discounted?

Considering blizzard sells their skins for 25$ id say yes.

WoW has hundreds of mounts obtainable through gameplay, and the majority of store mounts have unique skeletons. The forgehound is the closest thing to any Blizzard store mount(unique model, reused skeleton), and it's... $25. Don't pretend that ANet is any less predatory than Activision, EA, or any of their subsidiaries.

No the store mounts are legit more flashy versions of existing mounts in game.

[zealex.9410]

@Sartharina.3542 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@StaggerLee.6397 said:Is a mount skin being $5 really considered discounted?

Considering blizzard sells their skins for 25$ id say yes.

You forgot that 90% of WoW's skins can be obtained in-game.

Yeah i know i have expressed my annoyance that theres no skins obtainable in game. But still this doesnt justify having the mounts be at those prices. It does justify tho that the means of purchase shouldnt be scammy.

[zealex.9410]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Freakshow.1809 said:I'm content with this. I still wish they would just do away with the RNG feature of the current adoption licences and allow you to pick and choose, but at least they will not being doing this again.......hopfully

Also I will be screenshoting the OP for the future.

Forgive, but never forget.

@zealex.9410 said:

@Critwrench.8432 said:This doesn't address any of the concerns at all.

People want to buy the skins. They do not want to GAMBLE for the skins. Take the RNG off and raise the price of the skins IF YOU MUST, but I don't think you have to. Gliders were all 400 gems, more if it included a backpiece, I see no reason to deviate from that model.

Furthermore, this controversy has raised ancillary concerns from "nitpicks" to "actual issues" amongst your playerbase, and you have addressed none of them.

WHY

are all default mounts 1 dye channel, when all the skins conveniently have 4?

WHY

are there no mount skins earnable as in-game rewards, in an expansion sorely lacking in medium- or long-term reasons to keep playing the maps?

WHY

do you have the resources to release

thirty skins at once

for the gemstore, but you can't throw one or two into a box that people like myself have paid up to

eighty dollars

for? I'm not saying I don't want to work for them, I'm not even saying I don't want to buy them. I'm saying that the current situation is the absolute worst for everyone involved, except perhaps your yarn-pawing kitten bottom line.

It's greed, blatant and putrid, and your customers expect better than that from you.

I dont believe its fair for the mounts to be on the same price as the glider since theres more work going into them.

Many of them are just texture/fur pattern changes. That wouldn't have required much more work than the similarly retextured gliders(all the different colored hawk wings for example)

We didnt start getting crazy glider like way down hot. Its been a month since the expac launched and the mounts themselves have alot of detail. Some ppl would prefer pattern changes and maybe some small changes to the model rather than a crazy rework.

[zealex.9410]

@JaddynnStarr.5201 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@JaddynnStarr.5201 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@StaggerLee.6397 said:Is a mount skin being $5 really considered discounted?

Considering blizzard sells their skins for 25$ id say yes.

I disagree as this is not WoW... furthermore typical skins IN OUR GAME usually run the gambit of 400-800 gems which is $5-$10. Discounted... no. on the cheaper side of things yes.

I disagree. I believe a price around 800-1000 gems is a fair price for 1 mount with 1.6k gems for a full set of mounts.

well regardless of what you think they should be at.... they have been selling past and present at 400 gems for all mounts but the single jackal one, so no that isn't a discount, that's the normal price of them currently and on the cheaper side as gliders and regular char skins run 500-700 gems. As for future sales, I could tolerate 800 gems for a mount skin if it wasn't just a recolor... 1600 would be good for a standard 5 pack of skins.

Buying a pack for 1600 doesnt mean that a seperate purchase sould be 1/5 or 1/4rth of that. Like with some many things that are sold sererately or in a bundle the bundle is cheaper to make it more aprealing.

[Lyger.5429]

@Mike O Brien.4613 said: We won’t change the existing license in a way that would invalidate the investment players have made, but I want to confirm to you that our next planned mount skin releases will focus on individual sales like the Reforged Warhound

At the very least consider lowering the price of skins such as the warhound, having to buy over $20 USD worth of gems just for a standalone mount seems ridiculous. Perhaps consider a price point of 1600 gems (or even lower) for similar re-models being released in the future. Additionally, keeping the mount adoption license 30-pack around indefinitely might demonstrate an act of good will towards the costumer that feels like they must purchase the pack before time is up, else they lose out on the discount. Another act of good will would be to toss a few of the next basic skins that you release into the game, to be earned through various methods.

[zealex.9410]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@StaggerLee.6397 said:Is a mount skin being $5 really considered discounted?

Considering blizzard sells their skins for 25$ id say yes.

It bears repeating, Blizzard is Blizzard. Don't try to be Blizzard, because you ain't Blizzard.

Its not about being blizzard its about asking mounts to cost 400gems and how i find that unreasonable. God forbid if they sold skins at that price and yes the reforged thingy is too exp.

[Deimos.4263]

I'm not really sure how I feel. As expected, you said you wouldn't change the existing set (it'd be somewhat problematic to undo), and you're going to "focus" on selling them direct for the next while individually or in theme packs. But I what I don't hear is a promise that you won't resort to the RNG tactic again. And that's troubling.

[zeptimus.3641]

Thank you for the response.

For me however not the response I was hoping for. As long as the system stays in the game the way it is I wont be spending any money in the item store.

I will be playing. But I will stop paying.

[Daralii.8940]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Daralii.8940 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@StaggerLee.6397 said:Is a mount skin being $5 really considered discounted?

Considering blizzard sells their skins for 25$ id say yes.

WoW has hundreds of mounts obtainable through gameplay, and the majority of store mounts have unique skeletons. The forgehound is the closest thing to any Blizzard store mount(unique model, reused skeleton), and it's... $25. Don't pretend that ANet is any less predatory than Activision, EA, or any of their subsidiaries.

No the store mounts are legit more flashy versions of existing mounts in game.

Heart of the Aspects, Armored Bloodwing, and Grinning Reaver are unique skeletons. The rest are unique models on an existing skeleton, frequently with some extra animations- the Fey Dragon preening itself, the Iron Skyreaver doing a roll, etc. The forgehound is exactly the same as the store mounts, and were this WoW, all the gachapon mount skins are the kind that would be obtainable ingame. The fact that they put them in the gem store, instead of adding them as endgame rewards that the game desperately lacks that aren't just gold, shows where their priorities lie.

[Bopha Debs.3290]

@Mike O Brien.4613 said:

• You get a brand-new, unique mount skin every time, for a substantial discount versus an individual purchase price.

OK, consider this...1) PoF expansion - new maps, 5 mounts, new story, new elite specializations, new armor and weapon skins, new foods, new stat combos and plenty of other things I cant think of right now.Value - 30 USD

2) Individual jackal mount skin, purely cosmetic.Value - 25 USD

Does that REALLY seem right to you?

[John Valdea.5879]

Dear GW2,i am really saddened and disappointed by this reply from the devs. Many players stated solutions that would not invalidate what other players already paid. However you have ignored them and very blatantly said you refuse to fix the issue of this rng garbage. You could have done solutions as simple as temporary releases of the mount skins at higher prices much like your seasonal skins such as rox bow or angel wings etc. You could have even changed it so players could choose which mount their rng pool came from. If someone only wants a springer mount then they could select springer skin and only get springer skin that roll. Or even the option of making them trade-able on the AH like the BL chest skins are (sure Ah prices on those will be insane but it'd fix this entire issue and people would buy gems just to get the gold to buy it in AH... win win for everyone).

it's very disappointing that a game i once trusted and touted the glories of has gone down this path. Where once i spent thousands on this game i will now spend nothing further until something is done to resolve this issue. Not everyone is a little kid who can just use their mom and dads credit card or someone super rich who can drop 120 just to get a single skin, or even wasteful with what little money they have. I may be wasteful at times but i will never waste that much on a silly skin. I bought the most expensive package of every expansion and never hesitated to buy skins or other items i liked. If you wish to cater to the couple hundred players who will willingly spend this one time amount of 120 for that one skin they want and alienate and slap in the face the hundreds of thousands of players who refuse to pay for such a system but would have paid for your old system then so be it. I will be saddened to see my favorite game die.... time to look for new games after 5+ years of being a GW/GW2 diehard.

Signed,Your betrayed fan

[Sartharina.3542]

@urieldhynne.2743 said:"We won’t change the existing license in a way that would invalidate the investment players have made"

We need to understand that they are tied to a compromise with people who invested money in this system, a bad system, buy a lot of people already spended money on it and they need to protect them. Imagine if you spend money in another item that sell in certain way, and later they change it to a cheaper one because a lot of people (right or wrong) complain about it, you are going to lose trust in the company.

What he said was: They CAN'T change it now, but they know the people don't want/like it and they are going to sell new skins in a more traditional way

Well, if they were to actually put these in-game, it would do a hell of a lot more good than letting those who let themselves get fleeced (Note - I am sort of one of these people - I bought almost all the mount skins because I wanted them) keep their investment while screwing over absolutely everyone who bought the game (Or were even just thinking of buying the game)

I had multiple friends interested in checking this game out, but as soon as they heard about this bullshit, they backed away immediately. And it's spread all over the fucking internet..

At this point, the game crashing and burning will be a liberation.

[zealex.9410]

@Bopha Debs.3290 said:

@"Mike O Brien.4613" said:

• You get a brand-new, unique mount skin every time, for a substantial discount versus an individual purchase price.

OK, consider this...1) PoF expansion - new maps, 5 mounts, new story, new elite specializations, new armor and weapon skins, new foods, new stat combos and plenty of other things I cant think of right now.Value - 30 USD

2) Individual jackal mount skin, purely cosmetic.Value - 25 USD

Does that REALLY seem right to you?

Its not even that. Its the fact that the "brand-new, unique mount skin" has a solid chance to not be the one i want.

[Amethyst Rose.4367]

Just so you know there are a couple skins in that pack I would have purchased if I could do them individually... but with this random thing I am boycotting it completely because with my luck I would not get them until I was close to or at 30... I am really disappointed by your choice to go this route and I hope you either make these available separately, or worst case never do this again. I don't want to help fund you making truly ugly skins that I will never use... I want to be able to put my money towards ones I like so you will know what you are doing right for my tastes.

[MakubeC.3026]

Thank you Mike. Your words are much appreciated.

[zealex.9410]

@Sartharina.3542 said:

@urieldhynne.2743 said:"We won’t change the existing license

in a way that would invalidate the investment players have made

"

We need to understand that they are tied to a compromise with people who invested money in this system, a bad system, buy a lot of people already spended money on it and they need to protect them. Imagine if you spend money in another item that sell in certain way, and later they change it to a cheaper one because a lot of people (right or wrong) complain about it, you are going to lose trust in the company.

What he said was: They CAN'T change it now, but they know the people don't want/like it and they are going to sell new skins in a more traditional way

Well, if they were to actually put these in-game, it would do a hell of a lot more good than letting those who let themselves get fleeced (Note - I am sort of one of these people - I bought almost all the mount skins because I wanted them) keep their investment while screwing over absolutely everyone who bought the game (Or were even just thinking of buying the game)

I had multiple friends interested in checking this game out, but as soon as they heard about this kitten, they backed away immediately. And it's spread all over the kitten internet..

At this point, the game crashing and burning will be a liberation.

Yeah i agree with this but i dought the majority of ppl that bought the skins will see it like that.

[Ohoni.6057]

@urieldhynne.2743 said:We need to understand that they are tied to a compromise with people who invested money in this system, a bad system, buy a lot of people already spended money on it and they need to protect them.

No. They do have to make things right with those players, either via refunds or bonus gifts, but that does NOT mean that they are incapable of fixing the existing 30 mount skins for everyone else.

[usnedward.9023]

So, what you are saying is RNG is RNG and the end user takes the risk as it has always been and is the same in every MMO I have played? It took me close to five years to get a TT ascended drop and since then two more (not complainging at all, pointing out RNG). Yet in TEQ I have acquired 12 or so ascended chests. Some in WvW. As for all the games I have played that has some type of "store" GW2 IMO has offered the most variety to get the glitter and glam.

I do not think those that come here to complain AFTER they purchase something KNOWING ahead of time that they may not get what they want, actually realize that the complaint is a mute point due to the RNG and it is the gamble they take. It's a buyer's remorse and that is sad. As for those that want mount skins or other items that are usually GEM store bound to be found in game... it goes against the business model of having a store to either buy what you want or roll the dice while funding a game that has NO MONTHLY PREMIUM. Is this a rich man's game? Nah... farm some gold and trade for GEMS... never have to spend a dime if you don't want to.

Thanks for the clarification though, as always trying to smooth icing on a cake with a spatula to many is like doing it with a rake. and that is truly sad.

[ThunderRonn.7615]

I appreciate you reaching out to us but I do think you knew what a big thing this would be , you just hoped it would cull itself over. The fact that you said you do not want to lower the prices because people already bought them is not a good reason. You could just as easily refund gems to those for the difference. If you want to make any money off of this you should really try to lower the prices for these otherwise all the artists and game designers hard work is for next to nothing.

[zealex.9410]

@ThunderRonn.7615 said:I appreciate you reaching out to us but I do think you knew what a big thing this would be , you just hoped it would cull itself over. The fact that you said you do not want to lower the prices because people already bought them is not a good reason. You could just as easily refund gems to those for the difference. If you want to make any money off of this you should really try to lower the prices for these otherwise all the artists and game designers hard work is for next to nothing.

Theres also the fact that these are cheaper because you arent garandeed the one you want. If you were to buy them eperately ther price would be higher. So ppl who bought previously get their gems back but now cant buy because they are more exp.

[Asum.4960]

I firmly believe if you had marketed these skins better, you would have made the same, or maybe even more money, at least long term.300-600 Gems a skin, buy the skin you want, with a preview of what's to come before releasing the Halloween Skins to get people hyped and clued into what you guys are up to. This could have been huge for you guys, in a positive way.So many people were craving to give you their money for mount skins in a fair and reasonable manner.

I and many others didn't actually like the Halloween skins all that much. We bought them to show you we were interested in mount skins, to support you, and thought of them as a proof of concept sale.Little did we know there was already an army of skins that had to be either done, or near completed, at the ready, and you released the Halloween Skins as a high price package in advance to drain people of their gems in preparation for the loot boxes.

Now you refuse to change this gambling system and whenever I log into GW2, whenever I see one of those skins I really like, I get this scratch of temptation in the back of my mind. "Come on, you have 5€ you could spend, maybe you get lucky. Maybe you even have 10 or 15. Come on, even if you don't get anything you want at all and are never going to use, but next time, next time your chances will be better to get something you actually want for your money".

I fled other MMO's and triple A games exactly because of that feeling.Instead of enjoying the game and wanting to support the devs, to constantly feel that temptation to give in and gamble my money away to have something nice ingame.When I was a teenager I fell for that 2 times in games over a decade ago with microtransactions, and I will never forget how horrible I felt afterwards, if I got the thing I wanted or not.I've sworn to myself to never indulge in that feeling ever again.

If I give a company my money, it's because I want to. Because I want to support them and because they are offering something of good value for a fair price.Never because I feel like I have to pay up or gamble if I want something, anything nice.

That's why I stuck with this franchise for 12 years. Because you guys didn't give me that feeling of being exploited.Because you gave me a reason to want to support you!

I almost wish you just added these skins to the BLC's, where the odds to get anything of value for your money are so insane, that I'm able to steer clear of them without issues. I'm not THAT easy to exploit. Not anymore.

But this mount skin gamble floating in the back of my mind every time I play now, I'm not sure if I can resist. Maybe now, maybe for another week, another month. Eventually I may feel like giving in. Eventually I may come to the conclusion that I deserve something nice and shiny and I will want to buy them.

At that point I'll have to decide if I want to abandon my principles or quit GW2.

I'm not saying this as a threat, I'm fully aware nobody gives a rat's ass if I quit the game over this or not and find "I quit" posts as silly as the next guy.

I'm just saying how it is, and that I'm disappointed in you ArenaNet.For trying this, and for not fixing it.For taking away my sanctuary of predatory business practices.

I don't care if other games, other companies do even worse stuff than this gamble. That's the reason why I'm not buying and playing those other games in the first place.I don't care if it's just silly skins for someone else, for me it's not feeling valued and respected as customer any more.

So.. yeah. This sucks for me.

[Darcness.2408]

I can honestly say I have lost all consumer faith for this game over this and I don't think I'm going to buy gems of any variety for a long, long time.

[usnedward.9023]

@Darcness.2408 said:I can honestly say I have lost all consumer faith for this game over this and I don't think I'm going to buy gems of any variety for a long, long time.

Sure you will. I always say I won't and then a new shiny I like comes out and off to PayPal I go. RNG stuff I use gold to GEM trade because it is a risk.

[DaveNic.5098]

Very disappointing answer. No direct sale at a reasonable price. No money from me!! I will not support these rng loot boxes under any circumstances. I only wanted a few of the skins and refuse to gamble on getting those few i like. I will never purchase an item from the gem store again after this attempted money grab. I've been playing without a break for over 5 years and I've invested a considerable amount through buying gems. Not another penny will you get!!

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@"Vanity Flare.8539" said:Stick your non apology up your kitten hole. You will not see another red cent from me until you remove this rng GARBAGE from the game. I will NEVER recommend your game to ANYONE again. I've played both gw games for like a decade and this is the pathetic excuse of an apology you give? This is the beginning of the end for your company you have just pissed off entirely too many people to EVER recover from whoever's idiotic idea this was. You have so many great idea's for how to remedy this DISGUSTING PREDATORY TACTIC and you're going to choose to do nothing instead? Your company cannot actually be that stupid to ever think this lame kitten attempt to "fix" things would work. I'm am sitting here aghast at how willfully ignorant you're choosing to be.

Every. Single. Gamer. On the earth knows about how ALL of us DESPISE RNG BS/loot boxes and not one person in the company said "hey wait guys everyone is going to hate us for this you really think it's a good idea" . They probably did and you fired them for not wanting to GOUGE your playerbase. You have effectively signed the death warrant of this game so good kitten job guys. The whole company needs to go look in a kitten mirror until you FEEL the shame you deserve.

Thank you for destroying a decade of my life with this asinine SCAMMY SCUMMY kitten.

A lot of us are angry, as are you, just speak with your wallet and save your energy.