If they nerf Rifle

[Pyruvic.1520]

The power coefficient on rifle burst grenade was increased to compensate for the attack speed nerf, which no one seems to have noticed yet.

[LunieL.1738]

3 minutes ago, Pyruvic.1520 said:

The power coefficient on rifle burst grenade was increased to compensate for the attack speed nerf, which no one seems to have noticed yet.

It's not pointed out in patchnote, how could we consider it? I assume we could after work. And actually, does it compensate the speed nerf? Or "compensactes"?

[LunieL.1738]

10 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

A bit salty from the fact they didnt even bother mentioning it but they didnt trash the weapon at the very least

They didn't trash the weapon YET 😄

Wait till new wave of complaints after people will manage creating another builds that do significant damage.

[Pyruvic.1520]

A quick, dirty parse on the golem with auto attack only gives the same numbers pre and post hotfix. I'm not going to make any claims because I'm not a benchmarker, but I already dropped it on the SC discord for them to look at.

 

Also, they're still working on new benchmarks, but the preliminary estimate is around 35k for power mech.

[Tails.9372]

3 hours ago, Pyruvic.1520 said:

The power coefficient on rifle burst grenade was increased to compensate for the attack speed nerf, which no one seems to have noticed yet.

No one has noticed because they didn't, it's still the same as before.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

15 hours ago, Pyruvic.1520 said:

The power coefficient on rifle burst grenade was increased to compensate for the attack speed nerf, which no one seems to have noticed yet.

 

Please show me where you see that in the patch note. Because I havent noticed anything but a DPS loss .

 

15 hours ago, LunieL.1738 said:

They didn't trash the weapon YET 😄

Wait till new wave of complaints after people will manage creating another builds that do significant damage.

 

The me from the past already prepared  a bladesword so I can easily reach top tier damage with the help of 1 button. 

 

But I've accepted that 99% of people who complained about rifle or engineer are those who only watch those YT showcase but never touched the engineer. 

[Bartinoob.3792]

That's infuriating. The rifle on engi has been close to useless in PvE for the most part of the past 10 years, they finally make it good just to nerf it after 2 kittening days, without even assuming it in the patch notes, hoping it won't be seen ?

I mean, I had a whole evening where one of the main weapons on engineer was actually useful instead of kits, just to discover that no, it's kitten again the next day, can't have nice things I guess.

I mean, why change it at all if it's to trash it back after 48 hours. Back to bombs/grenades/carpal syndrom now. 

 

[LunieL.1738]

10 hours ago, Bartinoob.3792 said:

I mean, why change it at all if it's to trash it back after 48 hours. Back to bombs/grenades/carpal syndrom now. 

Yep. i dont say that i am any good in rotation doing, but again hardly reach 30k only with grenades..

Btw can anyone explain how does it work: i get same dmg using full berserker and zerk + valkyri parts, to critcap only myself, mech gets much less precision but the result is just the same. And it's always worse than YouTube guy who's rotation I was using. I get 30k compared to his 35k. It's not that hard, and after even making it so good as i can (maybe not perfectly but almost i suppose..) i can't get there numbers. I assume 30k is also not awful taking into account that unique boons were removed, but not sure what am i doing wrong anyway 😄 

Edited July 3, 2022 by LunieL.1738

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

On 7/1/2022 at 1:10 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

See, this is what makes it really hard for an engineer player to take any complaints about it serious.

Because people can't even be bothered to look up mechanics in the wiki to understand what is actually going on. The explosion tag has literally NOTHING to do with proccing AAR (aim assisted rocket). AAR procs whenever you score a critical strike against an enemy who is more than 150 away from you.

How am I supposed to take this feedback seriously if it just showed me that you don't understand what you are talking about?

its still synergizing with ARR hard tho. not because of the explosion but the rapid fire. the more hits you get off the more likely you can get a crit hit. the more often you get a crit hit the faster the ARR stack rises, the more often you fire an Orbital strike. especially with the reduced range threshold. before it was 450, what is now the threshold of the crit enhancing traits in fire arms. now it's 150. that's easy +40% crit chance you can upkeep with auto. results with a box standard zerker gear to crit cap. meaning all three hits of the rifle are crits. thus any hit after the ICD triggers a rocket and after 4 you get the orbital strike. no other engi weapon can do this this quick. they are melee weapons (range 130) or the pistol(which is main hand condi dps anyway), none of them three hits per button press either so they are compared to the rifle slow on hits. it's a synergy that can physically NOT be used by any other engi weapon. Only flamethrower can and over come rifle, but that's fine as you essentially trade of a utility slot for the kit and kits ARE essential to the engi class

[Kodama.6453]

12 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

its still synergizing with ARR hard tho. not because of the explosion but the rapid fire. the more hits you get off the more likely you can get a crit hit. the more often you get a crit hit the faster the ARR stack rises, the more often you fire an Orbital strike. especially with the reduced range threshold. before it was 450, what is now the threshold of the crit enhancing traits in fire arms. now it's 150. that's easy +40% crit chance you can upkeep with auto. results with a box standard zerker gear to crit cap. meaning all three hits of the rifle are crits. thus any hit after the ICD triggers a rocket and after 4 you get the orbital strike. no other engi weapon can do this this quick. they are melee weapons (range 130) or the pistol(which is main hand condi dps anyway), none of them three hits per button press either so they are compared to the rifle slow on hits. it's a synergy that can physically NOT be used by any other engi weapon. Only flamethrower can and over come rifle, but that's fine as you essentially trade of a utility slot for the kit and kits ARE essential to the engi class

When you are crit capped, it basically makes no difference if you hit 3 times in 1 second or 1 time in 0,75 seconds?

The new auto attack just and only gives you an advantage for AAR in the case that you are NOT crit capped. Because 3 seperate attacks mean that there is a higher chance that you will get a critical hit in to proc the trait. But if you are crit capped, then your critical strikes are already guaranteed and there is no advantage in having any more hits.

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

12 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

When you are crit capped, it basically makes no difference if you hit 3 times in 1 second or 1 time in 0,75 seconds?

The new auto attack just and only gives you an advantage for AAR in the case that you are NOT crit capped. Because 3 seperate attacks mean that there is a higher chance that you will get a critical hit in to proc the trait. But if you are crit capped, then your critical strikes are already guaranteed and there is no advantage in having any more hits.

the thing is  if you go power build you automatically have two traits (no scope and high caliber)from firearms that give you +40% critchance. in addition thanks to minor traits crit hits cause bleeding(sharpshooter), which increases your critchance by 15% MORE (hermatic focus) and the bleeding is increased by 33% (serrated steel).
i also stated that with box standard zerker gear, in this case very cheap nika medium armor with infiltration runes, you are beyond crit cap. and then you only need to step a few inches further away than melee range and you're good to go. range is factor here. due to the range threshold melee weapons with 130 can NOT use the ARR trait effectively with its threshold of 150.

if you somehow NOT meet crit cap on engi as a power build that's you purposely putting a handicap on yourself.

[Kodama.6453]

4 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

the thing is  if you go power build you automatically have two traits (no scope and high caliber)from firearms that give you +40% critchance. in addition thanks to minor traits crit hits cause bleeding(sharpshooter), which increases your critchance by 15% MORE (hermatic focus) and the bleeding is increased by 33% (serrated steel).
i also stated that with box standard zerker gear, in this case very cheap nika medium armor with infiltration runes, you are beyond crit cap. and then you only need to step a few inches further away than melee range and you're good to go. range is factor here. due to the range threshold melee weapons with 130 can NOT use the ARR trait effectively with its threshold of 150.

if you somehow NOT meet crit cap on engi as a power build that's you purposely putting a handicap on yourself.

You are completely missing the point.

Your initial statement was that the new rifle auto attack has much more synergy with the trait aim assisted rocket (AAR) than the old rifle auto attack, since you could (according to you) proc the trait more reliably by having multi hits.

I am telling you that both, the old and the new rifle auto attack, are equal in how often they can proc the trait as long as you are crit capped. Which, as you correctly acknowledged, is quite easy for an engineer to reach and if you don't cap on crit chance as a power engineer, you are actively sabotaging yourself.

So I was pointing out that your statement that the new auto attack synergizes with AAR more is incorrect in actual usage cases.

[ThunderX.6591]

Well, in the end, the "misconception" of the new rifle function in sinergy with AAR (that have a 3 sec internal cooldown) produced the nerf of the new rifle skills (not in the note), ending it to be less powerfull than the original..... a big loss for a weapons that was "not so good" from the start.

I seriously don't know what will happen in the august patch, where they sayd mecha get more nerf.

Mecha isn't decent dps now (but maybee condi guard is in a worse position), but i wait some test done for judge it, even though the dps wasn't in the top from the beginning, we will see.

Edited July 4, 2022 by ThunderX.6591

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

20 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

You are completely missing the point.

Your initial statement was that the new rifle auto attack has much more synergy with the trait aim assisted rocket (AAR) than the old rifle auto attack, since you could (according to you) proc the trait more reliably by having multi hits.

I am telling you that both, the old and the new rifle auto attack, are equal in how often they can proc the trait as long as you are crit capped. Which, as you correctly acknowledged, is quite easy for an engineer to reach and if you don't cap on crit chance as a power engineer, you are actively sabotaging yourself.

So I was pointing out that your statement that the new auto attack synergizes with AAR more is incorrect in actual usage cases.

and you my friend missed that the old rifle didn't had ARR because it had a different threshold. and so did the two major power dps traits i mentioned. there could have never been a synergy as it is now, as it was literally introduced with the patch that changed rifle as well. 

no scope and and high caliber had a SMALLER threshold and ARR had a BIGGER one. meaning it was impossible to use these traits in tandem, which is why up until this update, no one ever even considered ARR as viable option. anet quiet literally stated in their preview that they would change it to what it is now because of it. I have no idea how you missed this.

Edited July 5, 2022 by ShroomOneUp.6913