Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Treacy.4067 said:

Again, I'm all for LI builds for people with disabilities and they should be in the game. I myself play with my left hand.  However afk automated play is not low intensity, it's no intensity.  And you're being naive if you think that this only affects raids.  

And this isn't AFK automated play. The player MUST engage with the team and the content to get the DPS people are having issues with here. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Treacy.4067]

17 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

The rifle AA is already weaker than what compatible weapon sets from other classes have.

It's not weaker lol.  It's doing over 28k damage afk.

 

19 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

There is no balancing issue here. 

Of course there's a balancing issue.  People are quitting their preferred class and going with mech because it, and end game groups and even open world are filled with them.  We're even seeing them be 9 of the top 10 dps.  It's not engineer either.  Balance is always an ongoing process but there's a reason why they're putting so much effort into it now and put so much of it in the roadmap.   What we're saying is that's something they need to take a look at.

[Treacy.4067]

7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

And this isn't AFK automated play. The player MUST engage with the team and the content to get the DPS people are having issues with here. 

AFK means away from keyboard.

[Emberheart.8426]

Power rifle mechanist is a very broken build and is of course easy to play. This combination is why the play rate is so absurd. however, this thread and many who want nerfs are focusing on the wrong issues.

 

The truth of the matter is that there are way bigger issues than the low intensity. It is a truly overpowered build that does way too much compared to the alternatives. Take a good look at what this spec offers and focus on that instead of just arguing that it's afk or no intensity.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Emberheart.8426

[Obtena.7952]

13 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

AFK means away from keyboard.

Yes it is. So again, the player MUST engage with the team and the content to get the DPS people are having issues with here.

You continually ignore the fact that if the problem is how much DPS they can get going AFK .. the solution to that is to make the encounter so players can't AFK in it. That would actually make their DPS go down as well. This whole discussion is in bad faith, because you continue to exaggerate and incorrectly associate the capabilities of this build while being AFK as a balance issue. It's just not being honest.

The worst part is that there is a more obvious and reasonable point to make about what is wrong with power rifle ... but for some reason, you can't make it. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Treacy.4067]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yes it is. So again, the player MUST engage with the team and the content to get the DPS people are having issues with here.

If the issue is that people can play AFK, that's an issue with the encounter. 

How do you not understand this?  First the game has multiple game modes, not just raids.  Second, afk and automation means you let the computer do the damage because you're not actively engaged.  The problem is the numbers for letting the computer do it are way too high.  And to compound the problem, compared to other classes, mech's auto attack is pulling in 28k which falls under balance.  You're skirting the issue here.

[Obtena.7952]

11 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

How do you not understand this?  First the game has multiple game modes, not just raids.  Second, afk and automation means you let the computer do the damage because you're not actively engaged.  The problem is the numbers for letting the computer do it are way too high.  And to compound the problem, compared to other classes, mech's auto attack is pulling in 28k which falls under balance.  You're skirting the issue here.

Sure, but any encounter is more than just doing DPS .. if it's not, then being able to AFK it is an encounter problem, not a balance issue.

I don't get how YOU aren't incorporating the fact that a player has to engage with the encounter as well, affecting their DPS and knocking a massive hole in your 'AFK' claims.

IMO, the problem can be looked at in two ways ... and neither of them has anything to do with being AFK. That's just absurd. Doing content AFK has nothing to do with DPS. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Treacy.4067]

7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure, but any encounter is more than just doing DPS .. if it's not, then being able to AFK it is an encounter problem, not a balance issue.

I don't get how YOU aren't incorporating the fact that a player has to engage with the encounter as well, affecting their DPS and knocking a massive hole in your 'AFK' claims.

You keep editing your posts.  So if it's an "encounter" problem why are people up in arms now all of a sudden?  You suggesting that somehow all of the "encounters" suddenly got broke is silly.  Where there's smoke there's fire.  They need to adjust mech's numbers.

[Obtena.7952]

27 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

 So if it's an "encounter" problem why are people up in arms now all of a sudden?  You suggesting that somehow all of the "encounters" suddenly got broke is silly.  Where there's smoke there's fire.  They need to adjust mech's numbers.

because LI builds doing high DPS offends their ideas about how the game should work. That doesn't mean it's a problem.

I'm not suggesting encounters suddenly broke. The encounters were always that way. I agree there are some numbers that need to be adjusted on mechanist, but it's not for the absurd reasoning that it can AFK encounters in some unique way that other builds can't. 

If LI builds having reasonable DPS to integrate to teams is intended ... people are just going to have to pack up their tired ideas of how MMO's 'should' work. Exclusivity doesn't work. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Treacy.4067]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

because LI builds doing high DPS offends their ideas about how the game should work. That doesn't mean it's a problem.

I'm not suggesting encounters suddenly broke. The encounters were always that way. I agree there are some numbers that need to be adjusted on mechanist, but it's not for the absurd reasoning that it can AFK encounters in some unique way that other builds can't. 

If LI builds having reasonable DPS to integrate to teams is intended ... people are just going to have to pack up their tired ideas of how MMO's 'should' work. Exclusivity doesn't work. 

You keep saying blaming the encounters though. I don't know how many times I have to say this, I'm not referring to low intensity builds.  I'm referring to afk auto attacks.  There's nothing wrong with low intensity builds being in the game for accessibility reasons.  Get back to me when all classes can spec to 28k afk dps, not that I want that.

[Obtena.7952]

17 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

You keep saying blaming the encounters though.

Well, you are the one making this about being AFK and the ability to AFK encounters isn't unique to mechanist. That means it's a encounter design problem. I have to keep saying it because you continue to ignore it. Maybe if you stopped claiming mechanist is an AFK build, you wouldn't have this problem. At this point, it's simply dishonest to claim we have an AFK problem specific to mechanist. 

Quote

I don't know how many times I have to say this, I'm not referring to low intensity builds.  I'm referring to afk auto attacks.  There's nothing wrong with low intensity builds being in the game for accessibility reasons.  Get back to me when all classes can spec to 28k afk dps, not that I want that.

You can say it all you like, but it doesn't make it any less dishonest to refer to mechanist as AFK if you are going to complain about how much DPS it does. Again, if feels like it needs an adjustment ... just not for the reasons you say it does. It's not even clear what the DPS actually is when used in encounters to justify how much it should be changed. No one is really going to agree with what that number is anyways.  

Edited August 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Treacy.4067]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

yes I do because the ability to AFK encounters isn't unique to mechanist. That means it's a encounter design problem. I have to keep saying it because you continue to ignore it. 

You can say it all you like, but it doesn't make it any less dishonest to refer to mechanist as AFK if you are going to complain about how much DPS it does. 

We've already discussed this.  What's not unique is the damage it's doing to which you didn't counter.  You tried to then switch to it being an "encounter" problem.  It's not dishonest to refer to afk mechanists when we're literally discussing mechanist afk damage.

[Obtena.7952]

17 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

 It's not dishonest to refer to afk mechanists when we're literally discussing mechanist afk damage.

Well it is dishonest because that's not happening in encounters and if it is, it's not unique to mechanists.

Players have to engage with the encounter. If someone CAN AFK in an encounter, it's an issue with the encounter, not the build and it's certainly not unique to mechanist if that can be done. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Tails.9372]

7 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

It's not weaker lol.  It's doing over 28k damage afk.

What, Rifle Burst? That's not how it works as otherwise Core, Scrapper and Holosmith would be able to pull similar numbers which they clearly are not.

Like I said the rest of the passive damage comes from the class mechanic and it has to as that's what the "pseudo player 2" theme of the spec demands from it. If e.g. ele ever gets a "Zojja themed Golemancer spec" then its going to be the exect same story right there.

1 hour ago, Treacy.4067 said:

People are quitting their preferred class and going with mech because it, and end game groups and even open world are filled with them.

If people are quitting "their preferred class" just because they want to bandwagon then their attachment to that class was never strong to begin with.

1 hour ago, Treacy.4067 said:

We're even seeing them be 9 of the top 10 dps

Yes, that's because no one except for one warrior even tried to do more than just AAing but that's not a balance issue. It's an issue of the average player either: "running around in white gear with completely nonsensical trait choices not even understanding what's going on around them most of the time" or "them not not even wanting to try as the zerg will clear the content for them anyway". None of these are actual balancing issues.

[Treacy.4067]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well it is dishonest because the game isn't just about pressing 1 at an encounter and getting AFK levels of DPS. If someone CAN do that in an encounter, it's an issue with the encounter, not the build and it's certainly not unique to mechanist if they can. 

Again with this encounter business.  It's not dishonest that a mechanist can do 28k dps afk, that is the point.  You keep trying to blame encounters as if they all broke or something lol.

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

Again with this encounter business.  It's not dishonest that a mechanist can do 28k dps afk, that is the point.  You keep trying to blame encounters as if they all broke or something lol.

Yes, again with this encounters business because that's ACTUALLY the content of concern here. 

If you just want to continue a discussion about being AFK with 28K DPS, then I'm going to say that it's really not a concern how much DPS mechanist does on the DPS golem or trivial engagements that where players can ignore the mechanics. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Treacy.4067]

Just now, Tails.9372 said:

If people are quitting "their preferred class" just because they want to bandwagon then their attachment to that class was never strong to begin with.

Wait are you seriously saying that people should just be loyal to their preferred class, no matter how out of balance it is?  That's nonsense and not a good argument against what this thread is about.  A healthy game thrives on having someone respectable balance for crying out loud.  And yes it is a balancing issue.

[Treacy.4067]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yes, because that's ACTUALLY the content of concern here. 

If you just want to continue a discussion about being AFK with 28K DPS, then I'm going to say that it's really not a concern how much DPS mechanist does on the DPS golem or trivial engagements that where players can ignore the mechanics. 

No the skills and balance in general are the concern.  That's what this has all been about.  They don't have to fix the "encounters" as you call it.  Nothing changed with them.

[Obtena.7952]

9 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

No the skills and balance in general are the concern.  That's what this has all been about.  They don't have to fix the "encounters" as you call it.  Nothing changed with them.

No one is claiming they need to fix the encounters. That's a dishonest spin on my point. 

I get people don't think this is balanced but the point here is that it makes no sense to change something based on a measure of its performance that is not relevant to how it's used in the game by the people that play it. 

I get the ruse that's being perpetrated here; claim that the game is heading for everyone just AFK content all over the place with mechanists. That's just fearmongering. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Tails.9372]

9 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

Wait are you seriously saying that...

Wait are you seriously saying that don't understand the meaning of the term "bandwagon"?

[Treacy.4067]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

No one is claiming they need to fix the encounters. That's a dishonest spin on my point. 

I get people don't think this is balanced but the point here is that it makes no sense to balance something based on a measure of its performance that is not relevant to how it's used in the game by low capability players.  

I don't think it's health to have automated gameplay do that sort of damage.  There are multiple reasons for this which I've gone over at length in this thread.  I also think they will address it.

[Treacy.4067]

Just now, Tails.9372 said:

Wait are you seriously saying that don't understand the meaning of the term "bandwagon"?

It's obvious from what I said that I understand what bandwagon is.  How did you arrive at that conclusion?  

[Obtena.7952]

8 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

I don't think it's health to have automated gameplay do that sort of damage.  There are multiple reasons for this which I've gone over at length in this thread.  I also think they will address it.

The question is why it exists, not what we think is healthy or not. It's completely reasonable to believe this is intended because it brings more people into the world of endgame content. It also does that without impacting players who choose specs that are harder to play.

If that perspective is accurate, it's hard to see how this is not healthy for the game. 

[Tails.9372]

9 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

It's obvious from what I said that I understand what bandwagon is.  How did you arrive at that conclusion?  

Because nothing about that term implies the presence of an actual imbalance and thus nothing you said in your previous post relates to what you are responding to at all.

[Treacy.4067]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The question is why it exists, not what we think is healthy or not. It's completely reasonable to believe this is intended because it brings more people into the world of endgame content. It also does that without impacting players who choose specs that are harder to play.

If that perspective is accurate, it's hard to see how this is not healthy for the game. 

No the question isn't why it exists, auto attack already existed.  We're talking about the damage output. People are being shortsighted as to its affect.  So yes the question is whether or not it's good for the game.