Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.

[Kuma.1503]

19 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

Yes please keep defending your rifle mech 

 

How kittening delusional you have to be to even dare to say that this is balanced and intented...

Youtube clickbait thumbnail: 40k DPS Mech 😱

Actual DPS 32k + Special Action Key. 

 

Whether Mech is broken or not, the least people could do is not be intentionally misleading. This goes for every build that people have asked to have nerfed. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[soul.9651]

4 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Youtube clickbait thumbnail: 40k DPS Mech 😱

Actual DPS 32k + Special Action Key. 

 

Whether Mech is broken or not, the least people could do is not be intentionally misleading. This goes for every build that people have asked to have nerfed. 

Then show me any other spec which can do the same while pressing 1 button

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

Then show me any other spec which can do the same while pressing 1 button

None, but that's not the problem. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Treacy.4067]

10 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's true the encounters didn't change. That doesn't mean they weren't trivial in the first place though. Just because you can execute a complicated DPS rotation doesn't mean the encounter wasn't designed in a way that made non-trivial. 

I mean, I can do a DPS rotation on an OW veteran mob ... doesn't mean it's difficulty of that mob is changed if I take a LI build and press 1 on the same mob. You're just massively downplaying the encounter interaction to claim the problem is addressed by nerfing the build.  That's a massive misunderstanding in what the most significant issue is here. 

You keep going back and changing/editing your posts.  Why do you do that?  If you're going to add something just reply back.  I'll now replay to your edit in the old post:

 

13 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

 

I mean, I can do a DPS rotation on an OW veteran mob ... doesn't mean it's difficulty of that mob is changed if I take a LI build and press 1 on the same mob. You're just massively downplaying the encounter interaction to claim the problem is addressed by nerfing the build.  That's a massive misunderstanding in what the most significant issue is here. 

The mobs have nothing to do with it.  They or the encounters weren't changed. 

[soul.9651]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

None, but that's not a problem. 

:""""") or in other words u just cant think of any other excuses

[Treacy.4067]

4 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

Then show me any other spec which can do the same while pressing 1 button

They won't because they can't.  They also refuse to address the issue we're talking about by blaming it on a problem with the mobs and "encounters" themselves.

[soul.9651]

Just now, Treacy.4067 said:

They won't because they can't.  They also refuse to address the issue we're talking about by blaming it on a problem with the mobs and "encounters" themselves.

They just lie to themselfs and to everyone else at this point

[Obtena.7952]

9 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

The mobs have nothing to do with it.  They or the encounters weren't changed. 

That's completely wrong. The encounters have ALOT to do with the claims people are making about how these builds are (incorrectly) labeled as no intensity or AFK. The intensity of how a build performs is NOT just a function of doing the DPS rotation. You can't divorce the encounter interaction from the DPS rotation to claim any specific build needs a nerf. That's nonsense at this point. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Treacy.4067]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

That's completely wrong. The encounters have ALOT to do with the claims people are making about how these builds are (incorrectly) labeled as no intensity. The intensity is NOT just a function of doing the DPS rotation. 

For the millionth time, when you don't have to physically be at your computer, it's by definition no intensity. Do you understand what afk means?  And how do you not understand that intensity and rotation are linked?

[Obtena.7952]

40 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

And how do you not understand that intensity and rotation are linked?

I do understand that. How you do you not understand that encounter engagement is ALSO linked to intensity? Oh right, because recognizing that acknowledges AFKing content isn't a build problem. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Treacy.4067]

7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I do understand that. How you do you not understand that encounter engagement is ALSO linked to intensity? Oh right, because recognizing that acknowledges AFKing content isn't a build problem. 

You're argument isn't making sense and I'm still not even sure why you're continuing to debate.  Look you've already admitted that mech dps is a problem because of the recent balance patches changes and not because of the encounters.  I agree and it needs to be fixed. 

[Kuma.1503]

1 hour ago, soul.9651 said:

Then show me any other spec which can do the same while pressing 1 button

You're just repeating your point while ignoring what I said.

No one is pretending Mech isn't the best low effort spec in the game. This is a given. I stated earlier that I am also against automated pets for Mechanist. I don't think it's necessary. Mech was already a great LI build without the automated pet. 

All I argued against was the spreading of misinformation. 

Stating a blatant lie about something, then telling people "Don't defend this" is a common tactic employed around here. It allows people to throw around any easily debunkable claim they wish, and when they are inevitably debunked you can simply point out "See, you're defending a broken build". 

That deserves to be called out regardless of which side of this argument you're on. 

[Fwog.9387]

On 8/8/2022 at 8:24 PM, Treacy.4067 said:

Utter nonsense and again trying to change the narrative.  Two things: a build should never be so unbalanced that someone can afk and get such high dps.  And two, raids aren't the only type of content.  

If you can afk during an encounter it was designed poorly. Rotation isn't everything. If there was never a mechanic they needed to avoid or move around on, then the devs failed to design the encounter right. 

[Sunchaser.9854]

If you can't afk a encounter that normally requires movement that is negated by 1200 range that normally would require movement to swap ads that the melee have to run to, that the mechanist can teleport to, hit from 1200 away while listing auction house bills, as well as providing automatic barriers apparently while also having a pet with a 3x player healthpool that also apparently tanks on occasion.

While also making the mechs immune to the normal raid CC abilities that normally hit most other classes or one shot if they stand in melee range, then it's designed wrong. 😛 The bladesworn that had to lose his dps because the boss moved is doing it wrong. He just needs more melee range pistols to compensate more and practice his afk golem rotation bench better. My class will continue teleporting and firing afk from 1200 range while automatically regenerating hp and having 3x the healthpool and ignoring cc and providing cc with a optional 28k -> 35k dps rotation that is mostly. "Press 4 abilities as they light up off cd" vs. "memorize a 75 energy consumption per 10 second 34 part rotation that needs to maximize stance aura cancels and fluctuations in alacity uptime to account for energy consumption and cc on the fly and play the piano while also needing to be sure to avoid casting abilities within more than X interval, or else your Mallyx torment pulses will clip as you didn't  charge the abilities right, causing your torment to not apply and you also need to switch weapons every 10 seconds to avoid having your weapon swap dots fall off that will allow you to apply your dots, or else your weapons will only do 2k dps without abilities off cd 😛".

Man, it'll forever be a mystery why people just can't see it the same, right? We both press f to loot the boss right? why are those other 8 classes who don't teleport from 1200 range and autoregenerate health and also have options to provide 100% alacity, 25 might, fury, or barriers or heal all in one spec that can alt tab out of the game for 98% of pug's top dps saying it's not required to be interactive? Don't you know for some people, telling them to interact less with the game may be a dps increase when it comes to mechanist? 😛  Who doesn't want to outdps 98% of peers for pressing 4 glowing lights vs 34 on rotation. Who wants to sign up to be the other 98% of people who get to be the fodder below, doing 34 part rotations where even a single 1/34 part missed docks 3-50% of dps.

But if you're a robot or a snowcrow 10 practice run bencher, 0.01% of the time, you could totally perform 34x more parts to do 2% more dps of a optimized afker. That's totally rewarding, 0.01% of the time, so it's balanced!@ XD. Why on earth did they balance every spec to be a Piano when they hate the design? 🤷‍♂️Beats me!

But hey, they hired a balance designer to do Buff mech 20%, Delete banner Warriors so "We want more class diversity, so we'll make every 7-9 spots a mech", That's great right? 😛 Class balance is buffing the class i like to afk best! I joke, but maybe the next patch, "class diversity" could be letting the mechanist equip other players for 45k button dps once, player 1 takes autoattack, player 2 takes ability 2, #3 takes 3, #4 takes 4, and #5 uses the healing skill, and they can also merge for less movement speed and give top tier dps, while also only needing to press 4-> 1 button and outdoing 100 apm boss conditional melee builds that lose 30% uptime for range or stability. Yay, class diversity! 😄

Edited August 12, 2022 by Sunchaser.9854

[Fwog.9387]

12 minutes ago, Sunchaser.9854 said:

If you can't afk a encounter that normally requires movement that is negated by 1200 range

I will just stop there. Ranger has existed since launch and has 1500 range. Any encounter that just lets you do something like this was poorly designed. 

Also i don't count open world content. That was made so easy that 5 - 10 people auto attacking can usually clear it. 

[Sunchaser.9854]

I mean sure, It's like saying. You could afk at 1500 range with a pet that does 3% dps and maybe a class that has 15k (melee) afk builds, so cheesing isn't a problem, and it also might not auto boon, and it might also be giving away it's pet for a 20k soulbeast vs 20k + 42k hp pet.

And sometimes the pet is too squishy and dies, and it doesn't teleport, and it doesn't self regenerate hp or barriers, but it can attack from 1500 range away for half the dps fine! 

We're not saying other classe's can't do portions. Just that as far as things go, for a whole kit, that the content mechanists are complaining about 'bad design for being afkable' are usually commonly encounters that for other classes, may frequently involve

1. Movement, Or at least a rotation, leading to player interaction

2. Healing, or at least lack of self healing, barrier, and self hp regeneration on a afk build. (Some of the low intensity builds showcased on youtube get their afk results by adding on talents that self damage themselves, or have to have 0% dodge energy or only do 90% of their 18k-30k afk benchmarks. Which might also lose 4k dps if the mob hitbox is smaller than building size)
3. To cater around equal "anti afkness", of a 1200 range mech that doesn't need to move to switch targets, worry about ramp, do lesser amounts of damage, self regenerates and teleports. You'd basically need to design a jumping puzzle that could not be ranged from 1200 as a boss that melee could somehow hit while flying on a escalator. 

Anyways, august 23 buffed a lot of other specs or classes so that's good, though it mostly targeted healing mech's drowning other supports out, but that's a good change at least. At least if they aim to make all raid encounters mechanist levels easier to afk (or at least to the point mechanists can clear content to #2/#1 on the dps meters by opening the black lion post, looking at their inventory, walking away from the chair to walk a dog or take a bio, and then occasionally walking around to press glowing buttons to 27-35k sustained dps and 40k-44k starting fight burst dps. That should be better. People are already outraged about underperforming / not meta specs getting like 10% buffs to the "trap" weapons that like.. people who have no idea what they're doing use to build 2-8k dps randomly assembled trap builds though. 

[Obtena.7952]

Dang, isn't THAT a timely preview and not a single "power rifle AFK DPS mechanist" nerf in sight. Well, there is still another week so maybe ...

What is interesting is the nerfs that are affecting the builds that are enabling mechanist team stacking though. I think someone mentioned that somewhere in this thread. 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Kuma.1503]

23 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Dang, isn't THAT a timely preview and not a single "power rifle AFK DPS mechanist" nerf in sight. Well, there is still another week so maybe ...

What is interesting is the nerfs that are affecting the builds that are enabling mechanist team stacking though. I think someone mentioned that somewhere in this thread. 

As far as I can tell, their goal is to give everyone the rifle engi treatment. 

I'm already theorycrafting a condi ele build that camps fire. Overlaods on CD, hits feel the burn and signet of fire and just pumps out an endless stream of burning. No piano needed. 

[soul.9651]

3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Dang, isn't THAT a timely preview and not a single "power rifle AFK DPS mechanist" nerf in sight. Well, there is still another week so maybe ...

What is interesting is the nerfs that are affecting the builds that are enabling mechanist team stacking though. I think someone mentioned that somewhere in this thread. 

Dont worrie there will be another balance patch too and seems like they are doing it one step at the time with mech 🙂 oh and look reaper and vindicator damage buffs :)))) "its unlikely they will buff the dps" "i dont see a reason" "dps isnt solution". So far they are fixing everything people are complaining about and i see plenty of complaints about rifle mech aswell

[Treacy.4067]

8 hours ago, Fwog.9387 said:

If you can afk during an encounter it was designed poorly. Rotation isn't everything. If there was never a mechanic they needed to avoid or move around on, then the devs failed to design the encounter right. 

The encounters didn't just break.

[Treacy.4067]

4 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Dang, isn't THAT a timely preview and not a single "power rifle AFK DPS mechanist" nerf in sight. Well, there is still another week so maybe ...

What is interesting is the nerfs that are affecting the builds that are enabling mechanist team stacking though. I think someone mentioned that somewhere in this thread. 

Yeah many of us mentioned team stacking.  Also adjustments to builds don't always come right away which is pretty obvious to anyone that's played over the years.

[Tails.9372]

Form what they said:

On 8/11/2022 at 4:59 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

In this update, we focused on improving the number of viable core weapon choices across many professions in PvE. This included increasing base damage on many ranged weapon autoattacks to a higher baseline damage per second. These changes should help reduce the performance gap between players using suboptimal and optimal weapons.

It's pretty clear that the issue they want to address here is the performance gap between the skill floor and ceiling. At this point I wouldn't expect to see any major nerfs to power mech on the grounds of "is easy to play" anymore, if anything I can see them buffing up other things as time goes on for them to follow suit.

[Treacy.4067]

5 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

Form what they said:

It's pretty clear that the issue they want to address here is the performance gap between the skill floor and ceiling. At this point I wouldn't expect to see any major nerfs to power mech on the grounds of "is easy to play" anymore, if anything I can see them buffing up other things as time goes on for them to follow suit.

This looks like it was an update to core weapons that was a long time coming.  I still expect tweaks to the afk numbers.

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

Form what they said:

It's pretty clear that the issue they want to address here is the performance gap between the skill floor and ceiling. At this point I wouldn't expect to see any major nerfs to power mech on the grounds of "is easy to play" anymore, if anything I can see them buffing up other things as time goes on for them to follow suit.

Yup. It couldn't be MORE clear .. improving core rifle fits right into their plan of making core weapon choices better ...it's also the reason the rifle is unlikely to be get nerfed, at least anytime soon. Also, mech stacking is already on the radar for nerfs, so the power rifle variant is  apparently not going to be the priority here. 

The other thing we see happening this patch is that they are nerfing the high performance builds to address that performance gap (condi mech, FB stability). Doesn't look good for the opponents of these changes. What matters in the end is the worst offending build according to people in this thread ... was untouched and Anet re-affirmed the likely reason why. 

I'm sure we will still see complaints about all the AFK people having the game play for them. Will be fun.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Treacy.4067]

38 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

What matters in the end is the worst offending build according to people in this thread ... was untouched and Anet re-affirmed the likely reason why. 

I'm sure we will still see complaints about all the AFK people having the game play for them. Will be fun.

 Balance is an ongoing process. People will continue to sound the alarm about the afk automated high dps and rightly so.  Give it time.