[Aug 28 Patch][PVE] DH still sucks

[draxynnic.3719]

On 8/29/2022 at 1:41 AM, Luna.6203 said:

Condition virtuoso:

Main hand:

dagger: 1 - 1200 range, 2 - 1200 range, 3 - 1200 range

Off hand:

sword: 5 - 1200 range

pistol: 4 - 1200 range, 5 - 1200 range

focus: 5 - 1200 range

+ all offensive utilities 1200 range.

^ these attacks are part of your main rotation all 100% range.

Power virtuoso:

My mesmer alt is condi so maybe im missing something but as far as i know power virt. using dagger/sword + GS. Seem range to me as well.

As i said my virtuoso is only alt i dont have much experience/muscle memory playing it my build is not even meta since im using pistol. Yet easily on top of damage meter oftent times no.1. 100% freedom when it comes to range as far as u are in range of support. Plus mesmer utilities when needed big big bonus! Compare that to dragonhunter.

You've missed my point entirely. Virtuoso has no melee condition weapon. Therefore, dagger is not competing with a melee condition weapon for its DPS. In fact, condition virtuoso has no real competition for dagger because of how its designed, which is why condi virtuoso is dagger/X and dagger/Y.

For power virtuoso, the recently buffed greatsword has eclipsed sword/focus, but that's because sword has good defensive skills, while greatsword's only defence is range.

On 8/29/2022 at 1:41 AM, Luna.6203 said:

well ranger... thats why I added power soulbeast to the brackets. Power soulbeast indeed was using GS and axe off hand for years. But longbow has been boosted recently and its now 100% viable. Meta ranger is condi untamed oviously no LB there. Power soulbeast with longbow is not that far behind. I would also like to point here LB on ranger is core weapon. Half of the core weapons in this game are forgotten and useless. DH LB is elite weapon.

The point I was making here is that LB ranger still swaps into a melee set, and when you look at that melee set, you notice that it also has defensive qualities (Whirling Defence, well, look at the name. Greatsword has that long-duration block). Ranger longbow can match the power melee sets for damage because said melee sets trade range for increased survivability rather than increased damage. Guardian sword and greatsword, by contrast, are pretty much pure damage.

On 8/29/2022 at 1:41 AM, Luna.6203 said:

Core weapons should not outperform elite weapon that comes with specialization - full stop. If you disagree than we can agree to disagree.

I guess we're going to agree to disagree, then. An elite specialisation weapon that's designed to do one thing should not necessarily be better than a core weapon doing a different job.

But here's the thing - as soon as you get into encounters where having ranged capability is more important than a little extra theoretical DPS, that longbow comes right back. When people asked for guardian longbow, what they wanted was a more viable ranged option (keeping in mind that, at the time, sceptre projectiles were slow enough to walk away from, and staff was a basically a flamethrower with a couple of longer-range skills). That's what they got. It's supposed to be a ranged option for dragonhunter, which can be used with core utilities for a ranged builds, or combined with traps so you can pressure the enemy without leaving your traps. It is not supposed to be a super-weapon that you would never, ever want to trade for another weapon when playing DH because it outDPSes even the pure damage melee weapons.

When it comes to buffing dragonhunter, too, there's no reason to keep the buffs just to longbow. Willbender also needs help, and buffing sword and greatsword will also help willbender, while firebrand doesn't use either so you shouldn't end up accidentally buffing firebrand in the process.

Edited September 2, 2022 by draxynnic.3719

[cat.8975]

On 8/29/2022 at 6:55 AM, Luna.6203 said:

And about your so called fact that DH is viable. Longbow aside.

Every time someone says LB is viable you end up moving the goalposts and complaining about DH instead. Which is it?

Longbow is fine. The actual issue is that power builds (for all classes) were hit harder than their condi counterparts w/ the removal of class-specific buffs. Guardian was arguably hit a little harder than others, as it didn't receive a new crit chance trait like everyone else (~100 stat value) because Radiance builds already overcap by a ridiculous amount.

Radiance needs 1 or 2 small buffs, longbow 5 could use both a damage increase and cooldown reduction, and Willbender needs another strike damage modifier.

[draxynnic.3719]

8 hours ago, cat.8975 said:

Radiance needs 1 or 2 small buffs, longbow 5 could use both a damage increase and cooldown reduction, and Willbender needs another strike damage modifier.

Offhand sword might also need buffs if focus still does more damage than it, since a ranged offhand with a block really should not be outDPSing a melee offhand with no defences.

[cat.8975]

3 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Offhand sword might also need buffs if focus still does more damage than it, since a ranged offhand with a block really should not be outDPSing a melee offhand with no defences.

Off-hand sword is already really close to being better than focus, so I doubt it would take much to push it over. Would love to see some slightly lower cooldowns on it, and then maybe bumping up the damage on Executioner's Calling (sw4) by a bit if cd changes aren't enough.

[MagicBot.1570]

In an ideal world these are the changes I would like to see for Guardian and Dragonhunter (I excluded the Willbender buffs I had in mind due to a lack of data to evaluate it basically)

 

Core:

SwAuto3: 1.5 → 1.875

SwAuto1: .666 → .7

Gs2: 3.15 + 7 * 0.375 → 4.9 + 7 * 0.3

Gs4: +10% dmg

 

Dragonhunter:

 

GM3: 15%→ 20%

Lb2: 2.44 → 2.7

Lb5: 2.2 → 2.5 (final hit)

 

Based on current logs, with those changes, Radiance Sw/Focus DH would go from 32.8k DPS to ~36k DPS. Longbow Radiance DH would probably end up slightly higher, ~36.5k. Virtues Longbow DH would go from 35.8k DPS to ~39k DPS.

 

Breakdown of the results based on logs ( I assumed perma Big Game Hunter (GM3) uptime, which is pretty inaccurate but still, gives some idea for the final number even if it's an overestimation) 

Radiance Sw/Focus DH:

https://dps.report/1ZCd-32889rdh_golem

3963989 total dmg over 120.726 seconds

 

Sw3: 279720

Sw1: 153055

Gs2 : 625468

Gs4 : 405132

 

Scaled up damage: 

Sw3: 349650

Sw1: 160868

Gs2: 758143

Gs4: 445645

 

New total dmg : 2500614 + * = 4214920

34.913k DPS over 120.726 s

GM3 5%: take away the condi dmg and multiply by 1.2/1.15 : 36,414 DPS

 

Virtues Lb DH:

https://dps.report/D6B5-20220902-121208_golem

(Ignoring the fact that this wasn't 100% critchance)

3969644 dmg over 110.868 seconds

 

Gs4: 466331

Lb2: 366968

Gs2: 701410

Lb5: 95219

 

Scaled up dmg:

Gs4: 512964

Lb2 : 406071

Gs2 : 850194

Lb5 : 104902

 

New total dmg: 2339716 + * = 4213847

38.007k DPS over 110.868 s

GM3 "5%" increase: 39,620 DPS

Edited September 4, 2022 by MagicBot.1570

[Song of Eternity.8613]

Anet needs to address the power creep of other classes. It is honestly ruining a lot of map metas because the bosses are just dying so fast. It doesn't make sense for anet to spend years addressing power creep, just to blow it out of the water with EoD.

[cat.8975]

4 hours ago, Song of Eternity.8613 said:

Anet needs to address the power creep of other classes. It is honestly ruining a lot of map metas because the bosses are just dying so fast. It doesn't make sense for anet to spend years addressing power creep, just to blow it out of the water with EoD.

It's just Mechanist, really. It blows most other builds out of the water for players that are afk auto-attacking, and is incredibly safe/forgiving.

 

Things will hopefully change w/ the next big balance patch.

[SentriX.3209]

On 9/3/2022 at 2:30 PM, cat.8975 said:

Off-hand sword is already really close to being better than focus, so I doubt it would take much to push it over. Would love to see some slightly lower cooldowns on it, and then maybe bumping up the damage on Executioner's Calling (sw4) by a bit if cd changes aren't enough.

 

They might rework sword 3 while dual wielding into a spin to win type of attack...like warrior/ranger axe 5.

[cat.8975]

1 hour ago, Liisjak.4509 said:

 

They might rework sword 3 while dual wielding into a spin to win type of attack...like warrior/ranger axe 5.

They're not going to do that.

[FtoPScrub.5476]

@Double Tap

 

pls help, i got bullied today by evil bladesworn and soulbeast mains because my buttons dont make big numbers 😞

[Antina.5973]

3 hours ago, FtoPScrub.5476 said:

@Double Tap

 

pls help, i got bullied today by evil bladesworn and soulbeast mains because my buttons dont make big numbers 😞

can relate, anti-dh trash talk is there 😿 we just wanna spin for win 😿

Edited October 10, 2022 by Antina.5973

[FtoPScrub.5476]

It's funny revisiting these posts that turned out to be accurate. Anet, your buffs were pitifully inadequate to fix power DH, posts like these were present to give you feedback indicating so, not only did you completely ignore them, you tripled down. Now it's February, 2 balance patches later and like Deja Vu, once again pGuard gets minor coeff buffs that do not meaningfully make it up to par. Are you just going to pretend that the math works out when it clearly doesn't? Or do you really think a 600 dps increase will fix power guard? By the way, I saw some estimations earlier than CFB, with it's new mantras, could see a 2K DPS increase. If true, it's going to be hilarious watching Condi Quick FB beat DH. Remember what was said in the livestream: they were seeing CFB being taken over pGuard, so they wanted to address that, yet they did the exact opposite and gave significant buffs to CFB, and token ones to pGuard. I guess thats what happens when you ignore feedback.

Edited February 7, 2023 by FtoPScrub.5476