New Profession Suggestion

[VocalThought.9835]

5 hours ago, Diktator.8927 said:

I just don't understand the obsession with " 3 new classes per health bar or 3 classes per armor type". Just put it anywhere honestly, it doesn't matter that much. It doesn't matter if you have the same "Health level" as another class of the same armor type.

But yeah, your suggestions are perfectly applicable to the game, and I don't see why they couldn't do something like that, at some point. I'm not even saying they need to add all the elite specs at once, or even all professions at once. 
This way you have 3 brand new unique classes, which can have their own separate especs that differ from one another. 

The reason why I didn't go in depth about theorycrafting new possible classes and their especs, is because I was stuck arguing about whether these already exist in game, or the difference between introducing them into the game as especs vs new professions. In my opinion, those classes would be completely different if introduced as new professions, rather than just especs. 

This way, Bard as a whole is focused around music, notes, chords, etc. You could have different especs, focusing on different parts of the musical theme, rather than just having one espec from a completely unrelated profession doing it all (which ends up in doing none of it to the fullest). 

With Paladin, you could have a more healing oriented spec (like Druid), a more durable, support-like spec, and a full on dps spec. Though I'm unsure if that aligns with anet's current vision of everyone doing everything.

 

The only issue that rarely anyone brings up, is time and money required to develop those. For a game as big as GW2, you'd think they'd have a massive team behind it, yet they don't. So right now we can only dream about something like this happening. 

 

 

Okay, so Bards first elite could be the Air Guitarist, the second would be the Triangle, and the third would be Beatboxing or synthesizer, and when the player talks they sound like the Michael Winslow or T-pain. Every other instrument would be under core Bard. Is that what you had in mind?

 

I think the reason would add three more classes is because people normally like symmetry and order.

 

I still wish I knew what you thought was missing and how you envisioned the classes. You thought you would have to write a thesis and mis-spent your time debating than explaining  in a way others can understand. I think Bard as it's own profession is a bad idea. There's a reason why they got rid of Dervish, Ritualist, Paragon, and Monk from GW1 and came up with the Revenant.  Those classes didn't stand strong alone, could be represented in other classes, and were versatile enough for the system they created. I don't think Bard has a better chance fitting under Mesmer, Thief or Ranger, than being it's own class. 

 

I don't think it has much to do with money. I just think it's in their plans. If they add another profession, I think most people would be shocked. I think it's more likely for them to add a new playable race or hired NPC, like they did in GW1.

 

We'll see what the future holds, I hope you can exclaim to the world that you told us so.

[Diktator.8927]

1 hour ago, VocalThought.9835 said:

I still wish I knew what you thought was missing and how you envisioned the classes. You thought you would have to write a thesis and mis-spent your time debating than explaining  in a way others can understand. I think Bard as it's own profession is a bad idea. There's a reason why they got rid of Dervish, Ritualist, Paragon, and Monk from GW1 and came up with the Revenant.  Those classes didn't stand strong alone, could be represented in other classes, and were versatile enough for the system they created. I don't think Bard has a better chance fitting under Mesmer, Thief or Ranger, than being it's own class. 

The base of the whole argument wasn't about what class I think is missing. Everyone has their own preference, and everyone might want different classes to be added. I also haven't spent any time theorycrafting potential new classes, I just have rough ideas of what's missing, that other games have. 

The way I see classes currently, is that a profession determines the visuals, the identity/fantasy of the class. Each profession is unique and different from each other. Different especs just act as different ways to play within that profession fantasy/identity, in most cases. In other games they are called builds, in GW2 they're elite specs (and they do a bit more than what changing a build in other games does).
Adding a Bard as a new profession, for example, would add a completely new and different class identity/fantasy, with completely new and different visuals, mechanics, etc. Adding a Bard as an elite spec to whatever other profession just wouldn't be the same in any way. You're missing out on completely different visuals, weapon choices and their skills, mechanics, etc. You're just getting a different build for the base profession, that acts as a Bard. You're also missing out on potential new especs for that profession, that would have the same theme, but with different twists, just like current especs. So instead of just having one bard class as the elite spec, you could have 3-4 different types of Bards. The same way you have 3-4 different Summoners or Elementalists (core + 3 especs).

We're just back to my main argument, and I think I've been pretty clear at explaining it. Though I seem to have to repeat it in every single post, so that might not be the case.
You think that any new class could be added under current professions as an elite spec. I'm simply arguing that some new classes would be better suited to having a whole new dedicated profession to them.
I wouldn't, for example, want a Reaper to be its own profession. It fits nicely as the melee summoner/necromancer, Scythe fits the theme and the identity of the core profession perfectly.

Here are just a few descriptions of the current professions.

Elementalists - Mages/Spellcasters that use different elemental magic, fire, water, air, earth. Pretty straightforward. - (Potentially)Covers all magic type of classes from other games.
Warriors - Weapon masters, heavy armor, strength. - Covers default melee warriors/knights from other games.
Rangers - Nature, survival, spirits, pets. - Covers Archers, Rangers, Druids, Wardens from other games.
Necromancers - Dark/blood magic, undead, summoning, corruption, plagues, feeding on life force. - Covers the summoner/necromancer, dark/blood magic, etc. type of classes from other games.
Guardians - By the description, Paladins essentially, holy knights. Visually, not really. In practice, lots of fire. Virtuous fighters, protect/support allies, etc. - (Potentially)Covers the holy knight/Paladin classes from other games.
Thieves - Stealthy, using shadows, sneaking. Very agile. - Covers assassins, thieves, and other similar classes from other games.
Engineers - Different sorts of turrets, gadgets, explosives, elixirs, mines, bombs, rifles, pistols, etc. - Covers all the engineer/tinkerer type of classes from other games.
Mesmers - Magical illusionists, using clones, phantasms. - Covers all the illusionist/psionicist types of classes from other games.
Revenants - More unique to this game I guess. Using different heroes/legends from the mists, utilizing their power. Dark-ish knights? - (Potentially)Covers the dark knight/shaman types of classes from other games.

Now mind you, while they do cover certain class fantasies, etc., some of them cover more than one fantasy. Necro for example covers summoners, the undead, dark magic, blood magic, plagues and diseases, corruption...but they all have the same visuals. It does allow for 4th expansion to add a blood mage for example.

So a Paladin could be introduced under the Guardian profession, sure. It seems to fit in perfectly, even though we don't really have a "real Paladin" in the game right now. Visually it's just not the same as Paladins from most other games, but an espec could potentially change that.
A Bard just wouldn't fit in anywhere, other than as a separate profession. The current elite specs do fit in in those professions, but how would a Bard fit any of them? 
When I actually think about it, it's the only class fantasy that isn't represented. Sure, there might be a few others like Monks/Martial Arists/weaponless classes, but they just wouldn't fit in GW2, as it ties your abilities to your weapons. Cleric/Priest type of class arguably doesn't exist either. 
I'm not sure if there are any other classes that are so unique that wouldn't fit into current professions. Most melee warrior type of unique classes could just be placed under warrior. 
 

The solution would be straight forward, but apparently it's a sin to have one armor type with 4 professions, compared to the usual 3.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Diktator.8927

[Izan.6359]

RI
TU

A

LIST.
RITUALIST.

I will never shut up about that one, that class has all the aspects and potential for a come back in GW2, it is interesting, amazing, and missed by all the playerbase from GW1. On top of that, it is so frustrating to see bosses and ennemies being Ritualists and not be able to be one ourselves.

It has a offensive and support / protection (barriers) approach.
It has direct magic damage, binding rituals, urns, weapon spell, hexes.

I strongly envision that class being playable and doable in GW2.

And I know already "but they would have to make three elite specs if there was a new class" well my opinion is no. If it has only one, then so be it.

And I don't understand people saying but revenant is the equivalent. It is not at all. At least I don't think so at all. 

For me, the guardian was the best profession to be a ritualist elite specs with the F1 F2 F3 being spirits but they didn't do it, then give us the proper class. I honestly think, that update would HYPE the hell out of internet. Break the internet Anet, do it.

 

I really miss playing my tattooed ritualist. It was such a special class, not many MMORPG offer that experience apart from GW1. Just like Mesmer, it's truly a part of the identity and specific content of GW. This is how you attract and lock in players that won't find better somewhere else.

[VocalThought.9835]

2 hours ago, Diktator.8927 said:

The base of the whole argument wasn't about what class I think is missing. Everyone has their own preference, and everyone might want different classes to be added. I also haven't spent any time theorycrafting potential new classes, I just have rough ideas of what's missing, that other games have. 

The way I see classes currently, is that a profession determines the visuals, the identity/fantasy of the class. Each profession is unique and different from each other. Different especs just act as different ways to play within that profession fantasy/identity, in most cases. In other games they are called builds, in GW2 they're elite specs (and they do a bit more than what changing a build in other games does).
Adding a Bard as a new profession, for example, would add a completely new and different class identity/fantasy, with completely new and different visuals, mechanics, etc. Adding a Bard as an elite spec to whatever other profession just wouldn't be the same in any way. You're missing out on completely different visuals, weapon choices and their skills, mechanics, etc. You're just getting a different build for the base profession, that acts as a Bard. You're also missing out on potential new especs for that profession, that would have the same theme, but with different twists, just like current especs. So instead of just having one bard class as the elite spec, you could have 3-4 different types of Bards. The same way you have 3-4 different Summoners or Elementalists (core + 3 especs).

We're just back to my main argument, and I think I've been pretty clear at explaining it. Though I seem to have to repeat it in every single post, so that might not be the case.
You think that any new class could be added under current professions as an elite spec. I'm simply arguing that some new classes would be better suited to having a whole new dedicated profession to them.
I wouldn't, for example, want a Reaper to be its own profession. It fits nicely as the melee summoner/necromancer, Scythe fits the theme and the identity of the core profession perfectly.

Here are just a few descriptions of the current professions.

Elementalists - Mages/Spellcasters that use different elemental magic, fire, water, air, earth. Pretty straightforward. - (Potentially)Covers all magic type of classes from other games.
Warriors - Weapon masters, heavy armor, strength. - Covers default melee warriors/knights from other games.
Rangers - Nature, survival, spirits, pets. - Covers Archers, Rangers, Druids, Wardens from other games.
Necromancers - Dark/blood magic, undead, summoning, corruption, plagues, feeding on life force. - Covers the summoner/necromancer, dark/blood magic, etc. type of classes from other games.
Guardians - By the description, Paladins essentially, holy knights. Visually, not really. In practice, lots of fire. Virtuous fighters, protect/support allies, etc. - (Potentially)Covers the holy knight/Paladin classes from other games.
Thieves - Stealthy, using shadows, sneaking. Very agile. - Covers assassins, thieves, and other similar classes from other games.
Engineers - Different sorts of turrets, gadgets, explosives, elixirs, mines, bombs, rifles, pistols, etc. - Covers all the engineer/tinkerer type of classes from other games.
Mesmers - Magical illusionists, using clones, phantasms. - Covers all the illusionist/psionicist types of classes from other games.
Revenants - More unique to this game I guess. Using different heroes/legends from the mists, utilizing their power. Dark-ish knights? - (Potentially)Covers the dark knight/shaman types of classes from other games.

Now mind you, while they do cover certain class fantasies, etc., some of them cover more than one fantasy. Necro for example covers summoners, the undead, dark magic, blood magic, plagues and diseases, corruption...but they all have the same visuals. It does allow for 4th expansion to add a blood mage for example.

So a Paladin could be introduced under the Guardian profession, sure. It seems to fit in perfectly, even though we don't really have a "real Paladin" in the game right now. Visually it's just not the same as Paladins from most other games, but an espec could potentially change that.
A Bard just wouldn't fit in anywhere, other than as a separate profession. The current elite specs do fit in in those professions, but how would a Bard fit any of them? 
When I actually think about it, it's the only class fantasy that isn't represented. Sure, there might be a few others like Monks/Martial Arists/weaponless classes, but they just wouldn't fit in GW2, as it ties your abilities to your weapons. Cleric/Priest type of class arguably doesn't exist either. 
I'm not sure if there are any other classes that are so unique that wouldn't fit into current professions. Most melee warrior type of unique classes could just be placed under warrior. 
 

The solution would be straight forward, but apparently it's a sin to have one armor type with 4 professions, compared to the usual 3.

How I see it, the classes focused on:

Strength and Physical Prowess: Warrior

Conviction and Altruism: Guardian

Possession and Otherworldly Magic: Revenant

Nature Magic and Wilderness Master: Ranger

Science and Ingenuity: Engineer

Shadows and Cunning: Thief

Reality and Mind Alteration: Mesmer

Matter Creation and Manipulation: Elementalist

Occultism and Contamination: Necromancer

 

I guess you don't see how every class you mentioned already has a place in this game. What do you see a Bloodmage doing, that can't do in this game? Same goes for Bard, Paladin, Monk, or Cleric. And if it can't be done, you still don't think the classes you have in mind wouldn't blend well within a current profession if they made it an elite spec? 

 

I guess I'll never understand what your getting at besides color schemes and possibly animations. My Blood Mage is a Necromancer that use Dual Daggers and Scepter and War Horn, Well of Blood, Blood is Power, Signet of Spite, Epidemic, and Plaguelands.

Edited September 16, 2022 by VocalThought.9835
Appearance

[VocalThought.9835]

9 minutes ago, Izan.6359 said:

RI
TU

A

LIST.
RITUALIST.

I will never shut up about that one, that class has all the aspects and potential for a come back in GW2, it is interesting, amazing, and missed by all the playerbase from GW1. On top of that, it is so frustrating to see bosses and ennemies being Ritualists and not be able to be one ourselves.

It has a offensive and support / protection (barriers) approach.
It has direct magic damage, binding rituals, urns, weapon spell, hexes.

I strongly envision that class being playable and doable in GW2.

And I know already "but they would have to make three elite specs if there was a new class" well my opinion is no. If it has only one, then so be it.

And I don't understand people saying but revenant is the equivalent. It is not at all. At least I don't think so at all. 

For me, the guardian was the best profession to be a ritualist elite specs with the F1 F2 F3 being spirits but they didn't do it, then give us the proper class. I honestly think, that update would HYPE the hell out of internet. Break the internet Anet, do it.

 

I really miss playing my tattooed ritualist. It was such a special class, not many MMORPG offer that experience apart from GW1. Just like Mesmer, it's truly a part of the identity and specific content of GW. This is how you attract and lock in players that won't find better somewhere else.

Ritualist was replaced with Scourge. 

[Diktator.8927]

21 minutes ago, VocalThought.9835 said:

How I see it, the classes focused on:

Strength and Physical Prowess: Warrior

Conviction and Altruism: Guardian

Possession and Otherworldly Magic: Revenant

Nature Magic and Wilderness Master: Ranger

Science and Ingenuity: Engineer

Shadows and Cunning: Thief

Reality and Mind Alteration: Mesmer

Matter Creation and Manipulation: Elementalist

Occultism and Contamination: Necromancer

 

I guess you don't see how every class you mentioned already has a place in this game. What do you see a Bloodmage doing, that can't do in this game? Same goes for Bard, Paladin, Monk, or Cleric. And if it can't be done, you still don't think the classes you have in mind wouldn't blend well within a current profession if they made it an elite spec? 

 

I guess I'll never understand what your getting at besides color schemes and possibly animations. My Blood Mage is a Necromancer that use Dual Daggers and Scepter and War Horn, Well of Blood, Blood is Power, Signet of Undeath, Epidemic, and Plaguelands.

I'm sorry, but it's like I'm talking to a brick wall. Have you tried reading what I've said, and tried understanding my point? I've explained it very well, and you are getting caught up on an irrelevant Bloodmage comment. I've said Necro already encompasses the Blood mage fantasy, and I've just given an example of how they could make an elite that focuses more on it. They don't need to, they just could if they wanted to. I'm not asking for it, it's an example.
I said Paladin does fit into the Guardian fantasy style of class, though visually it's not currently 100% there. It could be with a new elite. Cleric is a cloth wearing character (among other things), I wouldn't put it under Guardian, as it's different.

I have also explained the profession themes fairly well, and given the equivalents from other games.

In your descriptions, where does the Bard theme fit?

Is it about Strength and physical prowess? Nope, so not a Warrior. 
Is it about Conviction and Altruism? Nah, not really. So not a Guardian either.
Is it about Possession and Otherworldly Magic? Nope. Not a Revenant.
Is it about Nature Magic and Wilderness Master? Nah, not a Ranger either.
Is it about Science and Ingenuity? Nope, not a scientist, not an Engineer.
Is it about Shadows and Cunning? No, I don't see bards as that dark and mysterious. Not a Thief.
Is it about Reality and Mind Alteration? No, overall it's not. You could reach and say playing a lullaby to put an enemy to sleep could be mind alteration. But it's not a Mesmer either.
Is it about Matter Creation and Manipulation? No, it's simply not an elementalist or a mage.
Is it about Occultism and Contamination? Hell no it isn't, so it's not a Necro either.

That was simple enough. Bard doesn't fit anywhere.

It's not only about color schemes, it's about an overall visual appearance of the class. That encompasses skill icons, visual effects from abilities, animations, particle effects, how the skills interact with everything, etc. It's also about the lore/fantasy/theme/identity of the class.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Diktator.8927

[VocalThought.9835]

19 minutes ago, Diktator.8927 said:

I'm sorry, but it's like I'm talking to a brick wall. Have you tried reading what I've said, and tried understanding my point? I've explained it very well, and you are getting caught up on an irrelevant Bloodmage comment. I've said Necro already encompasses the Blood mage fantasy, and I've just given an example of how they could make an elite that focuses more on it. They don't need to, they just could if they wanted to. I'm not asking for it, it's an example.
I said Paladin does fit into the Guardian fantasy style of class, though visually it's not currently 100% there. It could be with a new elite. Cleric is a cloth wearing character (among other things), I wouldn't put it under Guardian, as it's different.

I have also explained the profession themes fairly well, and given the equivalents from other games.

In your descriptions, where does the Bard theme fit?

Is it about Strength and physical prowess? Nope, so not a Warrior. 
Is it about Conviction and Altruism? Nah, not really. So not a Guardian either.
Is it about Possession and Otherworldly Magic? Nope. Not a Revenant.
Is it about Nature Magic and Wilderness Master? Nah, not a Ranger either.
Is it about Science and Ingenuity? Nope, not a scientist, not an Engineer.
Is it about Shadows and Cunning? No, I don't see bards as that dark and mysterious. Not a Thief.
Is it about Reality and Mind Alteration? No, overall it's not. You could reach and say playing a lullaby to put an enemy to sleep could be mind alteration. But it's not a Mesmer either.
Is it about Matter Creation and Manipulation? No, it's simply not an elementalist or a mage.
Is it about Occultism and Contamination? Hell no it isn't, so it's not a Necro either.

That was simple enough. Bard doesn't fit anywhere.

It's not only about color schemes, it's about an overall visual appearance of the class. That encompasses skill icons, visual effects from abilities, animations, particle effects, how the skills interact with everything, etc. It's also about the lore/fantasy/theme/identity of the class.

You said it, but you refuse to accept it... lol. Bards are Mind Alteration Spell Casting Dualist. Even Mesmer's Specializations line spells out Bard. Inspiration, Duelist,  Domination or Chaos. They only trait line that might not fit is Illusions. They play a lullaby and put you to sleep. If that's not mind altering I don't know what else is. In your mind, other than put people to sleep, what else would you say a Bard could do?

[Diktator.8927]

12 minutes ago, VocalThought.9835 said:

You said it, but you refuse to accept it... lol. Bards are Mind Alteration Spell Casting Dualist. Even Mesmer's Specializations line spells out Bard. Inspiration, Duelist,  Domination or Chaos. They only trait line that might not fit is Illusions. They play a lullaby and put you to sleep. If that's not mind altering I don't know what else is. In your mind, other than put people to sleep, what else would you say a Bard could do?

The class is literally about illusions, phantasms, deception, mind control. How do you even come to a conclusion that spells out Bard, is just beyond me. I've given you a bone with the lullaby, and not only have you took it, but you are now using it as your argument. 
It's only one potential spell, out of the entire Bard kit.. Playing different songs, chords, notes, even using voice, so sound is a big component of the class. AoE spells that buff allies are also a thing. Aion, Allods Online, Lost Ark, all have great Bard classes so if you're unfamiliar with them, go check out some videos from those games.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Diktator.8927

[VocalThought.9835]

12 minutes ago, Diktator.8927 said:

The class is literally about illusions, phantasms, deception, mind control. How do you even come to a conclusion that spells out Bard, is just beyond me. I've given you a bone with the lullaby, and not only have you took it, but you are now using it as your argument. 
It's only one potential spell, out of the entire Bard kit.. Playing different songs, chords, notes, even using voice, so sound is a big component of the class. AoE spells that buff allies are also a thing. Aion, Allods Online, Lost Ark, all have great Bard classes so if you're unfamiliar with them, go check out some videos from those games.

I see why you feel like you're talking to a wall. Instead of just answering a direct question, you spend most of your time talking in a circle or then differing to a past post or a video. Let's continue to have a constructive conversation.  Humor me a just reply with something that a Bard can do that's not in the game. If you want to include, how he does it, why he does it, what looks like when he does it... that's all fine. But what he does is oh so important, because it allows us to see if can get through this thick wall superglued to my small ears. 

 

If you were a Bard in GW2, what are somethings that you would be able to do and how would you do it? And why is it that you couldn't do that playing a Mesmer?

[Diktator.8927]

1 minute ago, VocalThought.9835 said:

I see why you feel like you're talking to a wall. Instead of just answering a direct question, you spend most of your time talking in a circle or then differing to a past post or a video.

Yeah, I'm not doing that. Again, I've been pretty clear, but you intentionally keep dismissing or ignoring my points.

2 minutes ago, VocalThought.9835 said:

Let's continue to have a constructive conversation.  Humor me a just reply with something that a Bard can do that's not in the game. If you want to include, how he does it, why he does it, what looks like when he does it... that's all fine. But what he does is oh so important, because it allows us to see if can get through this thick wall superglued to my small ears. 

 

If you were a Bard in GW2, what are somethings that you would be able to do and how would you do it? And why is it that you couldn't do that playing a Mesmer?

What can any class do that other class cannot? I mean it's such a weird question. What can a Warrior do that a Guardian cannot? 
Each class can do almost everything in this game, boons, ranged and melee dps. The way they look like while doing it differs, the way how they do it might differ, but they do end up doing the same thing as everyone else (doing damage, buffing allies, healing, etc.).

What would Bard do that's not in the game? Again, you have to look at how it does what it does, and how does it look like when it does it. You can't simply ignore that point.

I wouldn't be able to do it playing as a Mesmer, because it's simply not a class focused around instruments, sounds, songs, chords, notes. You play a song to buff allies, you play a chord to damage an enemy. Maybe you could have different instruments being used for different things, certain "softer" sounding instruments focusing on buffing and healing, and harsher ones being used for damaging abilities. I mean the possibilities are there. I have pointed out to other games, as they have well designed Bard classes. So if you are for some reason unfamiliar with them, there's a chance to familiarize yourselves with the concept of a Bard class.

 

[VocalThought.9835]

53 minutes ago, Diktator.8927 said:

Yeah, I'm not doing that. Again, I've been pretty clear, but you intentionally keep dismissing or ignoring my points.

What can any class do that other class cannot? I mean it's such a weird question. What can a Warrior do that a Guardian cannot? 
Each class can do almost everything in this game, boons, ranged and melee dps. The way they look like while doing it differs, the way how they do it might differ, but they do end up doing the same thing as everyone else (doing damage, buffing allies, healing, etc.).

What would Bard do that's not in the game? Again, you have to look at how it does what it does, and how does it look like when it does it. You can't simply ignore that point.

I wouldn't be able to do it playing as a Mesmer, because it's simply not a class focused around instruments, sounds, songs, chords, notes. You play a song to buff allies, you play a chord to damage an enemy. Maybe you could have different instruments being used for different things, certain "softer" sounding instruments focusing on buffing and healing, and harsher ones being used for damaging abilities. I mean the possibilities are there. I have pointed out to other games, as they have well designed Bard classes. So if you are for some reason unfamiliar with them, there's a chance to familiarize yourselves with the concept of a Bard class.

 

"What could a Warrior do that a Guardian can't...?" Where to begin... They can naturally take lots of damage without any intervention due to their high health bar. They're adrenaline builds up, then allows them to use a burst ability causing massive damage and cc effects. Most of their abilities are aggressive and they support their allies offensively.

 

See how I answer a question without all the noise beforehand. It creates a smooth conversation.

 

As far as your Bard goes, I see how your interested in how they cast spells but the effects on the game don't seem that important to you.  I know that each class has a healing, damage, or support role, but it seem that Bards buffing allies and putting conditions on enemies could be anyone, but the game mechanics is what truely separate each class. What you described as a Bard sounds like a Mesmer. It's like the only thing missing is the music notes, but all the mechanics are there. A Warrior, Guardian, or Tempest with shouts isn't quite the same as a Mesmer with it's Mantras, Glamour, and Shatters. Heck, they even created Virtuoso just to signify "this is as much as a Bard we're going to get". I swear you replace every word that said "Shatter a Clone" with "Sing a Tune", I bet you'd be content. I get it... you're just missing the musical notes. They need to add a feature for you, so when you create a clone, it looks like a melody on a G Scale. Then at the end of every fight, your character yells, "Bars". Lol

 

I see that Bards are a favorite to many, but when it came to creating a great power class in an amazing video game, they didn't make the cut. They had some reference before the game came out, but that was a April Fools joke... That should tell you something 

All you need is a Minstrel Set and you should be good.

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by VocalThought.9835

[VocalThought.9835]

All we need is love!! 

 

[Diktator.8927]

2 minutes ago, VocalThought.9835 said:

"What could a Warrior do that a Guardian can't...?" Where to begin... They can naturally take lots of damage without any intervention due to their high health bar. They're adrenaline builds up, then allows them to use a burst ability causing massive damage and cc effects. Most of their abilities are aggressive and they support their allies offensively.

 

See how I answer a question with all the noise beforehand. It creates a smooth conversation.

 

As far as your Bard goes, I see how your interested in how they cast spells but the effects on the game don't seem that important to you.  I know that each class has a healing, damage, or support role, but it seem that Bards buffing allies and putting conditions on enemies could be anyone, but the game mechanics is what truely separate each class. What you described as a Bard sounds like a Mesmer. It's like the only thing missing is the music notes, but all the mechanics are there. A Warrior, Guardian, or Tempest with shouts isn't quite the same as a Mesmer with it's Mantras, Glamour, and Shatters. Heck, they even created Virtuoso just to signify "this is as much as a Bard we're going to get". I swear you replace every word that said "Shatter a Clone" with "Sing a Tune", I bet you'd be content. I get it... you're just missing the musical notes.

Listen, this is going nowhere obviously. 

If you are trolling, then good job. If you aren't, then I'm so, so sorry.

If Bards were introduced, they would have a separate profession mechanic, as well as other unique mechanics, just like any other class... I think this should be very obvious, without having to say it (apparently it isn't). The differences you pointed out between Warrior and Guardian mean nothing. In the end, they all end up doing damage, or buffing allies, right? They just do it differently, with different mechanics.
Btw, those are already existing professions, ofc you would be able to list their differences, as they are straight forward. How do you expect me to list all the differences between a Bard and any currently available profession... when Bard doesn't even exist in the game lol.

I'm not a game/class designer, and I frankly don't have enough time to theorycraft you an entire class from scratch, covering their entire kit, with all the abilities and what they do. Do you want me to create a brand new class, come up with new mechanics, new abilities, and everything? I'm sorry, if you were looking for that answer.

Let's just say it would be very different from a Mesmer. Glamour abilities have nothing to do with Bards, Mantras don't have anything to do with Bards, Shatters have nothing to do with Bards.
No I wouldn't be content if they just changed the name of some abilities. I seriously don't know where this is coming from.

11 minutes ago, VocalThought.9835 said:

They need to add a feature for you, so when you create a clone, it looks like a melody on a G Scale. Then at the end of every fight, your character yells, "Bars". Lol

Yeah, that's EXACTLY what I meant. 

It's obvious that you aren't willing to accept anything other than your own view, and that you aren't even interesting in understanding my point. Thank you for confirming that. 

[VocalThought.9835]

Just now, Diktator.8927 said:

Listen, this is going nowhere obviously. 

If you are trolling, then good job. If you aren't, then I'm so, so sorry.

If Bards were introduced, they would have a separate profession mechanic, as well as other unique mechanics, just like any other class... I think this should be very obvious, without having to say it (apparently it isn't). The differences you pointed out between Warrior and Guardian mean nothing. In the end, they all end up doing damage, or buffing allies, right? They just do it differently, with different mechanics.
Btw, those are already existing professions, ofc you would be able to list their differences, as they are straight forward. How do you expect me to list all the differences between a Bard and any currently available profession... when Bard doesn't even exist in the game lol.

I'm not a game/class designer, and I frankly don't have enough time to theorycraft you an entire class from scratch, covering their entire kit, with all the abilities and what they do. Do you want me to create a brand new class, come up with new mechanics, new abilities, and everything? I'm sorry, if you were looking for that answer.

Let's just say it would be very different from a Mesmer. Glamour abilities have nothing to do with Bards, Mantras don't have anything to do with Bards, Shatters have nothing to do with Bards.
No I wouldn't be content if they just changed the name of some abilities. I seriously don't know where this is coming from.

Yeah, that's EXACTLY what I meant. 

It's obvious that you aren't willing to accept anything other than your own view, and that you aren't even interesting in understanding my point. Thank you for confirming that. 

I'm not trolling you dude. In all honesty, I thought you were doing the same thing. I guess we just got to agree to disagree. I did make better points then you though. We both are just passionate about this game and what it's capable of.

[Diktator.8927]

1 minute ago, VocalThought.9835 said:

I'm not trolling you dude. In all honesty, I thought you were doing the same thing. I guess we just got to agree to disagree. I did make better points then you though. We both are just passionate about this game and what it's capable of.

Yeah, that's fine then. And obviously if we didn't care about the game, we wouldn't be discussing it here in the first place.

It might be because we couldn't understand each other's points, though I think I understood yours fairly well, so I'm not sure if you  necessarily made "better" points.
If I wanted to sum it up in a few sentences, then it would be something like this.
Mesmer's class theme and fantasy doesn't align with what Bard's usually are in other games. Bard would be it's own separate class, with it's own separate kit, with it's own separate class mechanics and unique abilities. It would work better that way, then being thrown into a profession that's thematically different, and that focuses on different things.

If you disagree with this, then we simply perceive what Bards and Mesmers do (and how they do it) differently, and that's where our disagreement stems from.

Cheers, and have a nice day/night.

[VocalThought.9835]

48 minutes ago, Diktator.8927 said:

Yeah, that's fine then. And obviously if we didn't care about the game, we wouldn't be discussing it here in the first place.

It might be because we couldn't understand each other's points, though I think I understood yours fairly well, so I'm not sure if you  necessarily made "better" points.
If I wanted to sum it up in a few sentences, then it would be something like this.
Mesmer's class theme and fantasy doesn't align with what Bard's usually are in other games. Bard would be it's own separate class, with it's own separate kit, with it's own separate class mechanics and unique abilities. It would work better that way, then being thrown into a profession that's thematically different, and that focuses on different things.

If you disagree with this, then we simply perceive what Bards and Mesmers do (and how they do it) differently, and that's where our disagreement stems from.

Cheers, and have a nice day/night.

My point is that based on this game, every profession is the essence of several classes and no class is greatly represented. Hence, why we can squeeze like classes under one umbrella, and creating a Bard class would not be the same. That like creating a food pyramid and separating the egg from the protein  list since it's not like beef or lamb, an claiming it should be it's own thing. I'm just saying it's either a fish or poultry and is still a protein and you're like, "it doesn't look like a fish or poultry." Lol 

 

But, yes, FYI, no profession fully embodies all of a class. Eac profession has multiple remnant of several class types.  I don't see why they would create a profession that does, especially when they have one that quite close, and would be spot on if it had musical notes.

Edited September 16, 2022 by VocalThought.9835

[VocalThought.9835]