[WvW Roaming] Tools Changes are Spicy But Not Enough.

[inci.3705]

The condition cleanse buffs are really good changes. But I predict that the buffs will NOT have a major effect on the type of engineer builds you will most commonly see.

 

Why would you take Tools in the current patch? There are 4 major effects you would want:

• Toolbelt CD reductions
• Traited rocket boots
• Reveal on CC/stealth hit
• Toolkit CD reductions or the passive stunbreak

 

The builds that already use Tools will continue to use it because they specifically wanted some combination of those effects.

 

Other builds won't swap to Tools because while they are nice,  Gadgets as a whole still aren't good enough to justify taking an entire traitline, ESPECIALLY with the loss of the passive stunbreak and Mine Field boonstrip nerf. Maybe if Utility Goggles had 2 ammo, it would be more competitive with Alchemy and Elixir U/S.

 

IMO, the buffs to kinetic battery are irrelevant.

 

• You might see some Holosmith static discharge builds using photon wall and rifle turret, but I think they will be regulated to meme territory due to the lack of sustain (and mechanist will probably still out meme them even with the AAR and stat nerfs).
• Core engi and rifle mechanist likes the extra cleanse but are sad about the passive stunbreak removal
• Scrapper might just be straight-up deleted in roaming after gyro changes so whatever

Edited September 17, 2022 by dvomd.4307

[Alec B.8905]

also they didn't put it on the notes but they are removing aim assisted rockets from the mech.

 

After looking at the patch and having thousands of hours on engi I would say that this patch destroys scrapper roaming/small-scale viability. Not to mention the changes that they did still are not going to effect the firebrand scrapper meta. No other class can give mass superspeed to the same level along with group stealth like scrapper so unless they give other classes that scrapper still won't go anywhere unless they just completely remove condi cleanse from the class (please do not).

[Silinsar.6298]

At least for Holo, the Tools changes will make me consider running it instead of Alchemy.

 

Tier 1:

Optimized Activation makes up for Invigorating speed (and I do find the other options to be similarly effective, depending on what you're fighting).

Reactive Lenses condi removal trumps Hidden Flask, imo (they are not comparable 1:1, but both have some good utility)

 

Tier 2:

Mechanized Deployment condi removal trumps transmute, it's just more and better controllable condition removal.

No Emergency Elixir is some sustain loss, but Lock On / Takedown Round make up for that with their offensive utility, imo.

 

Tier 3:

Can't really say how much losing Compounding Chemicals will hurt, it's not a lot of healing, but it adds up. Losing HGH is tough, but getting TB CD reduction from Mechanized Deployment and a flat damage increase from Excessive Energy partially makes up for it (unless you're set on using multiple elixirs). So for the tier 3 majors, while not being as good as HGH when compared 1:1, I think all are decent. Kinetic Battery was too strong with 5sec quickness tbh, 2sec was overnerfed and I think 4sec would be fine but 3sec quickness makes it usable again, given you have multiple low CD TB skills. If you're running 2 gadgets, Gadgeteer becomes worth it and otherwise Adrenal Implant is a nice to have fallback pick.

 

 

Tools will probably be a tempting alternative to Alchemy for me, a bit more offensive-oriented but still featuring good defensive utility. So overall I like how the pending changes make me ponder on taking different traits, utility skills, healing skills and maybe tweaking my stats (because of the increased condi clear and damage, but reduced survivability vs power, I might slot less vitality and more toughness).

Edited September 17, 2022 by Silinsar.6298

[SleepyBat.9034]

13 hours ago, dvomd.4307 said:

Maybe if Utility Goggles had 2 ammo

Stop bringing this idea up, it's not going to happen.

[SleepyBat.9034]

1 hour ago, Silinsar.6298 said:

Can't really say how much losing Compounding Chemicals will hurt, it's not a lot of healing, but it adds up.

It hurts a lot if your build had good boon generation, especially if you take Health Insurance for the +10% incoming healing effectiveness.

[inci.3705]

On 9/17/2022 at 7:16 AM, Silinsar.6298 said:

Tools will probably be a tempting alternative to Alchemy for me, a bit more offensive-oriented but still featuring good defensive utility.

 

Yeah, my biggest issue is the removal of the passive stunbreak. Even without Alchemy, the entire package of Elixir S or Elixir U are way too good to pass up (especially with the upcoming Scrapper quickness nerfs and the probably cast time on Defense Field). It feels as if we are really being pushed towards elixirs (or Shift Signet) for any decent stunbreak and I'm a little tired of using them.

 

Meanwhile, the entire package of Utility Goggles isn't that great. The protection and resistance are really nice, but the toolbelt could use a small upgrade. After the Thief SA changes, I found myself not even having the time to use Detection Pulse before they are already on top of me, so aside from aegis popping, it is effectively dead (especially since Lockon is way more reliable with projectile tracking). Some extra boons like fury or might would be nice. And 2 ammo on Goggles, we get the old behavior with more control.

Edited September 18, 2022 by dvomd.4307

[SleepyBat.9034]

2 hours ago, dvomd.4307 said:

 

Yeah, my biggest issue is the removal of the passive stunbreak. Even without Alchemy, the entire package of Elixir S or Elixir U are way too good to pass up (especially with the upcoming Scrapper quickness nerfs and the probably cast time on Defense Field). It feels as if we are really being pushed towards elixirs (or Shift Signet) for any decent stunbreak and I'm a little tired of using them.

 

Meanwhile, the entire package of Utility Goggles isn't that great. The protection and resistance are really nice, but the toolbelt could use a small upgrade. After the Thief SA changes, I found myself not even having the time to use Detection Pulse before they are already on top of me, so aside from aegis popping, it is effectively dead (especially since Lockon is way more reliable with projectile tracking). Some extra boons like fury or might would be nice. And 2 ammo on Goggles, we get the old behavior with more control.

First, outside of defense field the only stability engineer has is from elixirs. Second, stop asking for ammo charges on Utility Goggles, Anet is moving away from that type of skill anyway and it's not fun having 60+ second cooldowns.

[James.6435]

2 hours ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

First, outside of defense field the only stability engineer has is from elixirs. Second, stop asking for ammo charges on Utility Goggles, Anet is moving away from that type of skill anyway and it's not fun having 60+ second cooldowns.

First, you get stab on thumper turret toolbelt, not sure what point you are trying to make. Second, looking through forum post history this seems to be the first time anyone asked for ammo count on Utility goggles that I can see.

Unrelated:

• Reactive Lenses: This trait no longer triggers Lesser Utility Goggles when disabled or blinded. Instead, it triggers after using a healing skill.
• Lesser Utility Goggles: Increased resistance duration from 2 seconds to 3 seconds. This skill now removes one damaging condition in addition to its other effects.

Can someone explain to me how you are going to proc a "stunbreak" in Tools since it requires you to use your heal skill to make it function, which you cant do while stunned, essentially engi is just losing a passive stunbreak, just like they did to ele and warrior.

Edited September 19, 2022 by James.6435

[Ferus.3165]

7 hours ago, James.6435 said:

First, you get stab on thumper turret toolbelt, not sure what point you are trying to make. Second, looking through forum post history this seems to be the first time anyone asked for ammo count on Utility goggles that I can see.

Unrelated:

• Reactive Lenses: This trait no longer triggers Lesser Utility Goggles when disabled or blinded. Instead, it triggers after using a healing skill.
• Lesser Utility Goggles: Increased resistance duration from 2 seconds to 3 seconds. This skill now removes one damaging condition in addition to its other effects.

Can someone explain to me how you are going to proc a "stunbreak" in Tools since it requires you to use your heal skill to make it function, which you cant do while stunned, essentially engi is just losing a passive stunbreak, just like they did to ele and warrior.

either the anet devs change the heal skill you have into a stunbreak with cast time when you choose the trait reactive lenses or (and i think that is far more likely even if i don't like it at all) the stunbreak will simply be lost to random balance decisions.

[SleepyBat.9034]

9 hours ago, James.6435 said:

First, you get stab on thumper turret toolbelt, not sure what point you are trying to make. Second, looking through forum post history this seems to be the first time anyone asked for ammo count on Utility goggles that I can see.

I never count Tumper Turret because it's 1 second baseline with a 38 second cooldown so it might as well not be there at all. I've seen 3 people ask for ammo skills on Utility Goggles and I don't want to see the cooldown go from 24-30 sec cd to 60-75 sec cd.

[Seksitron.7863]

Same issue!

[Grand Archon Phoenix.2801]

In light of these changes to scrapper, the WvW guild i play with [which shall not be named] has already removed scrapper from our comp, slotting deadeye and chrono instead for stealth bombing blobs, so, for the moment, at least, scrapper is dead for our organized groups.

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 9/19/2022 at 4:15 PM, Grand Archon Phoenix.2801 said:

In light of these changes to scrapper, the WvW guild i play with [which shall not be named] has already removed scrapper from our comp, slotting deadeye and chrono instead for stealth bombing blobs, so, for the moment, at least, scrapper is dead for our organized groups.

Um ok but how is that related to the tools trait line?

Edited November 13, 2022 by SleepyBat.9034

[Nero.7369]

The cleanse is nice now.

I miss the old static discharge damage ... It hits like a wet noodle. Can barely bring tanky condi rangers below 50% while other fall like flies :S

If SD would be decent again I'd be really happy with tools.

[SleepyBat.9034]

7 minutes ago, Nero.7369 said:

The cleanse is nice now.

I miss the old static discharge damage ... It hits like a wet noodle. Can barely bring tanky condi rangers below 50% while other fall like flies :S

If SD would be decent again I'd be really happy with tools.

Yes the cleanse is great now, I just want Lock On to have longer Fury duration and tools would be just about perfect.