Please Add Unblockable To Astral Whisp

[Soilder.3607]

@Double Tap

The addition of allied targeting as well as the increase to a 300 radius for this skill were excellent changes in order to improve its effectiveness in healing allies, however, there is an issue that is reducing the consistency of Astral Whisp when it comes to large fights in World v World.

 

During large fights there are often multitudes of effects being used that block or reflect projectiles, such as Winds of Disenchantment, Defense Field, or Valiant Bulwark. These skills, when used by enemies, will block/reflect your Astral Whisp even if you are targeting allies with it. As you can imagine, in large fights (20v20 and greater) the number of enemy projectile blocks and reflects is extensive, and during melee pushes Astral Whisp is often unable to land on your commander (or other allies). Mechanically, this skill is acting appropriately, because any projectile which deals damage can be reflected/blocked (if not already unblockable). It is merely that Astral Whisp, being focused on healing, is different from other projectiles that are intended to damage or debilitate foes.

 

An easy fix to this would be to add an Unblockable aspect to Astral Whisp. Because Astral Whisp is not primarily a damage or burst skill, I do not think this would be an overpowered change and would improve the efficacy of this skill when it comes to healing allies, which is its primary usage. 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Soilder.3607

[anduriell.6280]

I have to disagree with this one. 

Your sentiment is right but i want to think the devs balanced  the Astral wisp by having in mind the skill is a projectile and be blocked, destroyed or reflected. Right now is in the right balance of healing + damage packet. 

If an unblockable effect were to be implemented you can bet the whining would quickly cause to nerf  the damage and healing of the skill. And then it would become very useless. 

What you want is the Druid to offer something to friendlies during the avatar downtime. For that other reworks are needed and just not this one. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Is Astral Wisp the only case of where an enemy can actively prevent support from doing its job?  It'd be like if you went to throw a bubble up and enemy comes in middle and puts on invuln or block and bubble doesn't deploy...

Essentially, unless they add stacks to bubbles where they can be destroyed, I don't see how making Wisp unblockable would be out of line with the current game.  

[anduriell.6280]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Essentially, unless they add stacks to bubbles where they can be destroyed, I don't see how making Wisp unblockable would be out of line with the current game.

It would be very much out of line. As far as i know there is not other skill similar to astral wisp in game. If you know one please share and then we compare. 

Unblockable astral wisp will mean less healing and less damage. 

Again what OP wants is to offer support while the avatar is down, Lingering light how was designed in beta was perfect for it. And in line with other support  heals in game.  

[Soilder.3607]

39 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

It would be very much out of line. As far as i know there is not other skill similar to astral wisp in game. If you know one please share and then we compare. 

Unblockable astral wisp will mean less healing and less damage. 

Again what OP wants is to offer support while the avatar is down, Lingering light how was designed in beta was perfect for it. And in line with other support  heals in game.  

Sir,

There is no support skill in the game outside of Astral Whisp that an enemy can prevent from supporting allies after you have already cast it (interrupts are universal in their ability to stop all skills with casting times so we are not going to count that as a specific counter to Astral Whisp). If a Firebrand uses Hallowed Grounds on a location, that location will always pulse stability to allies. An enemy cannot apply a debuff to stop allies from gaining boons (Winds of Disechantment was capable of doing that, but that ability was nerfed to reduce boon duration instead of preventing boon application).

 

Similarly, if an Elementalist uses Geyser in an area, any ally standing in the Geyser will be healed. There is no way for an enemy to prevent an ally from being healed so long as they remain in the Geyser. There is no skill an enemy can cast on Geyser to make it disappear; it will always be there. Yes, an enemy could push or knockback an ally to remove them from the Geyser, but again that is a universal counter shared with all ground targeted skills, and the Geyser itself will still pulse healing and function as a water field even if no one is in it.

 

Astral Whisp is the only support skill in the game that can be mechanically stopped from doing what it is supposed to do. If an enemy bubble blocks it, no one will be healed. If an enemy dome reflects it, it will heal no one. Can you imagine if other support skills worked the same way? Lets say a guardian uses Shield of Judgement. Right now, in game, if a Guardian successfully finishes casting Shield of Judgement, up 5 to allies in range of the attack will always gain boons. The enemy cannot stop it. But let's say the skill was changed. Now, if any enemy blocks the damaging wave attack, no allies gain boons. This would make the skill almost completely unviable in large scale fights because all it takes is one single enemy to block (and there are tons of blocks going around with aegis procs) the wave attack and no ally gains boons.

 

Astral Whisp is functioning very similarly to that analogy. If you are in a big zerg (20v20, 40v40 etc) and you engage in a melee fight, there are tons of enemy reflects, shields, bubbles and other forms of projectile denial. Astral Whisp is getting blocked, reflected, and destroyed quite often in these situations even though you are targeting allies with the Whisp and trying to heal them and not damage enemies. It is making the skill less reliable, which should not be the case for what is essentially a healing skill. 

 

Balance wise, Astral Whisp doesn't do a lot of damage at all. With 2,500 Power, its tooltip lists slightly over 800 damage for the skill in WvW. That's a little more than half of what Maul does, and they both share the same cast time. Astral Whisp, after the buff, is supposed to be used to heal allies, and it would be much better at that if enemies could not stop it. Which, again, is something that enemies are not supposed to be able to do to support skills.

 

Also, making Astral Whisp unblockable to improve its reliability is a great way to improve the Druids support while outside of Celestial Avatar Mode. Astral Whisp has a low enough cooldown to be used twice while Celestial Avatar Mode is recharging. It essentially functions as the long missing "spam" heal that the Staff always needed. It's similar to what Holy Strike is on the Guardian Staff; a short recharge, spammable heal. Which, by the way, is also a skill that the enemy cannot prevent from healing allies once cast.

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Soilder.3607

[Za Shaloc.3908]

I believe Herald's Shield 4 also has or had this issue (can't remember off the top of my head) as well. I pretty clearly remember it getting destroyed by aegis and anti-projectile skills. Feels odd for a skill that is purely support, but I think this skill has it because of the damage attached to it as well. See also: Harbinger elixirs. I can understand them not wanting to make it unblockable when used on an enemy, but I don't think there's any issue with it being unblockable only when used on an ally.

[anduriell.6280]

6 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

I can understand them not wanting to make it unblockable when used on an enemy, but I don't think there's any issue with it being unblockable only when used on an ally.

You got the reason why, now your approach would be great it's  just  the technology is not there yet and that would mean to make somebody to actually be put to work to fix the ranger. . . That would be a first. 

[Kodama.6453]

17 hours ago, Soilder.3607 said:

Sir,

There is no support skill in the game outside of Astral Whisp that an enemy can prevent from supporting allies after you have already cast it (interrupts are universal in their ability to stop all skills with casting times so we are not going to count that as a specific counter to Astral Whisp). If a Firebrand uses Hallowed Grounds on a location, that location will always pulse stability to allies. An enemy cannot apply a debuff to stop allies from gaining boons (Winds of Disechantment was capable of doing that, but that ability was nerfed to reduce boon duration instead of preventing boon application).

 

Similarly, if an Elementalist uses Geyser in an area, any ally standing in the Geyser will be healed. There is no way for an enemy to prevent an ally from being healed so long as they remain in the Geyser. There is no skill an enemy can cast on Geyser to make it disappear; it will always be there. Yes, an enemy could push or knockback an ally to remove them from the Geyser, but again that is a universal counter shared with all ground targeted skills, and the Geyser itself will still pulse healing and function as a water field even if no one is in it.

 

Astral Whisp is the only support skill in the game that can be mechanically stopped from doing what it is supposed to do. If an enemy bubble blocks it, no one will be healed. If an enemy dome reflects it, it will heal no one. Can you imagine if other support skills worked the same way? Lets say a guardian uses Shield of Judgement. Right now, in game, if a Guardian successfully finishes casting Shield of Judgement, up 5 to allies in range of the attack will always gain boons. The enemy cannot stop it. But let's say the skill was changed. Now, if any enemy blocks the damaging wave attack, no allies gain boons. This would make the skill almost completely unviable in large scale fights because all it takes is one single enemy to block (and there are tons of blocks going around with aegis procs) the wave attack and no ally gains boons.

 

Astral Whisp is functioning very similarly to that analogy. If you are in a big zerg (20v20, 40v40 etc) and you engage in a melee fight, there are tons of enemy reflects, shields, bubbles and other forms of projectile denial. Astral Whisp is getting blocked, reflected, and destroyed quite often in these situations even though you are targeting allies with the Whisp and trying to heal them and not damage enemies. It is making the skill less reliable, which should not be the case for what is essentially a healing skill. 

 

Balance wise, Astral Whisp doesn't do a lot of damage at all. With 2,500 Power, its tooltip lists slightly over 800 damage for the skill in WvW. That's a little more than half of what Maul does, and they both share the same cast time. Astral Whisp, after the buff, is supposed to be used to heal allies, and it would be much better at that if enemies could not stop it. Which, again, is something that enemies are not supposed to be able to do to support skills.

 

Also, making Astral Whisp unblockable to improve its reliability is a great way to improve the Druids support while outside of Celestial Avatar Mode. Astral Whisp has a low enough cooldown to be used twice while Celestial Avatar Mode is recharging. It essentially functions as the long missing "spam" heal that the Staff always needed. It's similar to what Holy Strike is on the Guardian Staff; a short recharge, spammable heal. Which, by the way, is also a skill that the enemy cannot prevent from healing allies once cast.

 

Excuse me, but did you make any actual research before claiming that astral whisp would be the only support ability which can get prevented/blocked/reflected by the enemy? Because I can tell you that this is far from the truth.

From engineer alone, here is a list of supportive skills which can get projectile blocked and reflected:

• Toss Elixir H
• Toss Elixir S
• Toss Elixir B
• Toss Elixir U
• Toss Elixir C
• Super Elixir
• Elixir Shell
• Glob Shot
• Bandage Blast

[Soilder.3607]

1 hour ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Excuse me, but did you make any actual research before claiming that astral whisp would be the only support ability which can get prevented/blocked/reflected by the enemy? Because I can tell you that this is far from the truth.

From engineer alone, here is a list of supportive skills which can get projectile blocked and reflected:

• Toss Elixir H
• Toss Elixir S
• Toss Elixir B
• Toss Elixir U
• Toss Elixir C
• Super Elixir
• Elixir Shell
• Glob Shot
• Bandage Blast

Apologies, just the other day a friend of mine who mains engineer pointed out that many of their throwable support skills/self buffs can be blocked/reflected. Those skills too, provided they do not have some blatantly overpowered damaging portion, should also be made unblockable/unreflectable.