How to making vindicator no longer shallow

[arazoth.7290]

Vindicator needs in the following upsumming a small rework for more identity and better balancing in the future:

 

• 1. Energy meld:  2 charges 15 sec cd each, make it consume then the endurance for 25% endurance bar so it gets converted in 15% energy bar.
  •                                The benefits of the selected dodge traitline gets triggered too for 50% effect because only 25% endurance consumed.
•  

2. Mid row traits:

 

Reaver's Curse

Angsiyan's Trust

Song of Arboreum

this traitline row should work around vindicator switching between archemorus and saint viktor.

 

When you switch between each other, the active side should get bonus effect on the 2 abilities first used.

This way archy can give saint viktor for example some extra cc, boons, damage.

And saint viktor can give archy this way for example some extra support like boons, healing.

 

These bonus effects can be used on allies or enemies, so you can choose where you want to have it hit or spent, this gives some decision and more thinking where and when you want it be used.

[Anonynja.3172]

Completely agree, and I will keep beating the drum on this with you. I have been saying this exact suggestion for months now and hope more people push ANet to use Energy Meld and the middle traits to give Vindicator the internal synergy it deserves.

With the double dodge returned, these endurance refunds from Energy Meld and your middle trait are flat, uninteractive, and do nothing to connect the two Alliance stances to each other. Effects on legend swap from the middle traits and complementary effects from Energy Meld are exactly what we need. Yes to everything you wrote.

[Zaret.1450]

if you did this there would be 2 problems.

First energy meld would compete against the dodge, while more energy is good not every time youll find it usefull in your rotation, nor will you be lacking energy.

And 2 is archie and vick sinergy, there isnt a good stat combo for a dps healer, and aliance swap has cd, so swapping from one to the other is usually a situational thing or a missclick, its more punishing than rewarding.

if youre not convinced about the 2 think this, on arche when do you swap to vick? when you have low life and need an emergency heal or an emergency dash back, while a healer on vick has no use for arche whatsoever, so unless aliance swap has no cd your 2 proposal is gonna be either unused or a hidrance.

For me id use energy meld to strengthen a legend or weapon skill, for example make it strengthen gs5, sw 5, and those skills, or maybe make it pull, stun or taunt on archie, while vick gives stab and breaks cc, and on core legs it could just be a taunt and stab in area, something usefull everywere, and make it mayne sacrifice endurance.

another option would be a kind of copy skill, if you use aliance energy meld copies the elite of the lwgend youre not used with reduced effects, and on core legends without aliance in effect it uses a diferent skill, dunno a cc should be optimal but it could be another thing.

As for traits id like if the trait of enemys affected by jump stayed, balance it so it doest allow perma dodge but it does allow a fast paced rithm agains big zergs, and the other 2 for me should be instead of joining aliance, separating them, they dont have good sinergy at its core, so making them more self reliable and male them sinergize with other more complementary legends would be better.

For example, male arche not be able to swap to vick, but if paired with shiro both gain a diferent upgrade, spear is able to petrify enemys on hit for a second, and shiro jade winds becomes a tornado that deals dmg on a selected spot.

as for vick it cant swap to archie, but if paired with ventary both legends give alac maybe, or if paired with jalis it can give stab with a couple vick skills. as for ventary it could gain some cleanse or a bigger tablet area effect, while jalis could heal alies affected by its elite or the stab road could cleanse condis too.

a bit op on the healing side but it could be tuned by numbers

[arazoth.7290]

32 minutes ago, zaswer.5246 said:

if you did this there would be 2 problems.

First energy meld would compete against the dodge, while more energy is good not every time youll find it usefull in your rotation, nor will you be lacking energy.

And 2 is archie and vick sinergy, there isnt a good stat combo for a dps healer, and aliance swap has cd, so swapping from one to the other is usually a situational thing or a missclick, its more punishing than rewarding.

if youre not convinced about the 2 think this, on arche when do you swap to vick? when you have low life and need an emergency heal or an emergency dash back, while a healer on vick has no use for arche whatsoever, so unless aliance swap has no cd your 2 proposal is gonna be either unused or a hidrance.

For me id use energy meld to strengthen a legend or weapon skill, for example make it strengthen gs5, sw 5, and those skills, or maybe make it pull, stun or taunt on archie, while vick gives stab and breaks cc, and on core legs it could just be a taunt and stab in area, something usefull everywere, and make it mayne sacrifice endurance.

another option would be a kind of copy skill, if you use aliance energy meld copies the elite of the lwgend youre not used with reduced effects, and on core legends without aliance in effect it uses a diferent skill, dunno a cc should be optimal but it could be another thing.

As for traits id like if the trait of enemys affected by jump stayed, balance it so it doest allow perma dodge but it does allow a fast paced rithm agains big zergs, and the other 2 for me should be instead of joining aliance, separating them, they dont have good sinergy at its core, so making them more self reliable and male them sinergize with other more complementary legends would be better.

For example, male arche not be able to swap to vick, but if paired with shiro both gain a diferent upgrade, spear is able to petrify enemys on hit for a second, and shiro jade winds becomes a tornado that deals dmg on a selected spot.

as for vick it cant swap to archie, but if paired with ventary both legends give alac maybe, or if paired with jalis it can give stab with a couple vick skills. as for ventary it could gain some cleanse or a bigger tablet area effect, while jalis could heal alies affected by its elite or the stab road could cleanse condis too.

a bit op on the healing side but it could be tuned by numbers

the alliance stance change could be a 5 second cd, this isn't to abnormal high but also not too low that you can switch on and off, so it still requires thinking which one you want to be in.

 

the other ideas upon energy meld are also interesting yes.

 

1 of your suggestions to let archemorus or viktor meld with another legend. 

that could add 2 options ontop of my idea in mid row traitline. I would though still keep all 3 there but only 2 of them can meld according to following mid row traits. ==>

 

•1st traitline mid) archy can meld with shiro, mallyx.

•2nd traitline mid) archy and viktor meld together like described in first post.

•3rd traitline mid) viktor can meld with centaur and jalis.

 

But still on changing stances for both ideas, let it give bonus effect on first 2 abilities used when you switched.

 

The idea to seperate them I wouldn't do, this spec is about melding together alliances in unity.

 

 

[otto.5684]

4 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

the alliance stance change could be a 5 second cd, this isn't to abnormal high but also not too low that you can switch on and off, so it still requires thinking which one you want to be in.

 

the other ideas upon energy meld are also interesting yes.

 

1 of your suggestions to let archemorus or viktor meld with another legend. 

that could add 2 options ontop of my idea in mid row traitline. I would though still keep all 3 there but only 2 of them can meld according to following mid row traits. ==>

 

•1st traitline mid) archy can meld with shiro, mallyx.

•2nd traitline mid) archy and viktor meld together like described in first post.

•3rd traitline mid) viktor can meld with centaur and jalis.

 

But still on changing stances for both ideas, let it give bonus effect on first 2 abilities used when you switched.

 

The idea to seperate them I wouldn't do, this spec is about melding together alliances in unity.

 

 

In pve, unless you are receiving so much damage or need an emergency condi cleanse, you would camp Archemorus. And Vindicator is not less complex than Herald or dps Renegade. No reason to jam in unnecessary mechanics. This is what resulted in the changes to begin with.

[arazoth.7290]

16 minutes ago, otto.5684 said:

In pve, unless you are receiving so much damage or need an emergency condi cleanse, you would camp Archemorus. And Vindicator is not less complex than Herald or dps Renegade. No reason to jam in unnecessary mechanics. This is what resulted in the changes to begin with.

What forced changes, was that you had no on demand controll over abbilities with vindicator beta version. With this it isn't even as much as elemental, engineer kits, firebrand.

 

It adds flavour while still having controll, so there is no problem. And with this changing stances, makes it more beneficial for you and the team to switch the stances.

[Yasai.3549]

I agree. I have no idea why they sold Legendary Alliance only to force you to either pick Arch or Vik for a majority of your playtime. 

It's Legendary Alliance, not Legendary Hero + sidekick.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Yasai.3549