Nerf Binding Shadow

[Zex Anthon.8673]

I know trashing ele is the hot thing to do right now, but holy kitten how is this skill so loaded. Knockdown, immob, poison, vulnerability, and boon rip. All at 1200 range.

[Ovark.2514]

Yep been saying it since before PoF launch. Gotta spread those effects across lesser-used DE utility skills.

[Hederrain.9207]

5 hours ago, Ovark.2514 said:

Yep been saying it since before PoF launch. Gotta spread those effects across lesser-used DE utility skills.

Its always has been aids since the beginning.

Yet, rifle2 spam is way more stupid.

[FrigginManatees.1268]

Just a tell would be great.

[Morwath.9817]

Nerf ALL skills.

[Zex Anthon.8673]

7 minutes ago, Morwath.9817 said:

Nerf ALL skills.

I never said that. But, there is no question that a lot of skills in this game are blatantly over powered when compared with similar skills. Binding Shadow could lose the poison, immob, and the boon rip, and it would still be a good skill. It's like Bane Signet on steroids right now.

[Morwath.9817]

14 minutes ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

I never said that. But, there is no question that a lot of skills in this game are blatantly over powered when compared with similar skills. Binding Shadow could lose the poison, immob, and the boon rip, and it would still be a good skill. It's like Bane Signet on steroids right now.

To begin with, do you think Deadeye is overperforming?

[Dr Meta.3158]

On 12/29/2022 at 8:51 PM, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

I know trashing ele is the hot thing to do right now, but holy kitten how is this skill so loaded. Knockdown, immob, poison, vulnerability, and boon rip. All at 1200 range.

Yes deadeye is pretty stupid and arenanet should have never compiled multiple sources of invisibility, teleports, and ranged CC, and what even used to be 30k death's judgement shots on a sniper that doesn't have to aim. But path of fire was filled with design atrocities like this.

On 12/29/2022 at 9:41 PM, Ovark.2514 said:

Yep been saying it since before PoF launch. Gotta spread those effects across lesser-used DE utility skills.

They don't seem to care.

1 hour ago, FrigginManatees.1268 said:

Just a tell would be great.

It has a tell, its just really hard to see. You get a red indicator going up your body before it hits. Its just another thing to focus on while surveying the land for possible spots for them to come out of stealth from while listening out for death's judgement all at once. Its the sort of stimulus overload characteristic of clone spam mesmers and the current scepter elementalist variants.

58 minutes ago, Morwath.9817 said:

Nerf ALL skills.

Derailing hyberbole

41 minutes ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

I never said that. But, there is no question that a lot of skills in this game are blatantly over powered when compared with similar skills. Binding Shadow could lose the poison, immob, and the boon rip, and it would still be a good skill. It's like Bane Signet on steroids right now.

Deadeye honestly doesn't need immobilize at all. They already have far superior stealth, mobility, and damage compared to druid. They don't need to outperform them in CC as well.

25 minutes ago, Morwath.9817 said:

To begin with, do you think Deadeye is overperforming?

Manipulative derailing. Watch out for this person folks.

[Morwath.9817]

4 minutes ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

stuff

Saying skill needs nerf is equal to demanding nerf to spec using it.

If spec isn't overperforming, then nerfing balanced or even underperforming spec is beyond stupid.

[Dr Meta.3158]

2 minutes ago, Morwath.9817 said:

Saying skill needs nerf is equal to demanding nerf to spec using it.

If spec isn't overperforming, then nerfing balanced or even underperforming spec is beyond stupid.

It is overperforming. The reason why it stopped being abundant in games is because after support tempest was temporarily dropped in favor of support guardian, elementalist was buffed again leading to several meta builds across elementalist specs and a huge surge of elementalists in game. This of course leads to a very high uptime of magnetic aura which alone crowds out projectile builds but also the focus on scepter allows the arcane barrier wielding fresh air variants to delete deadeyes in the instant they leave stealth backed with either arcane barrier or magnetic aura to stifle any form of counter pressure.

 

But this isn't unique to deadeye, everyone is having trouble with elementalists right now. Once elementalist is out of the picture then you will have deadeyes returning to overperforming since very little can actually deal with them if they're playing the right deadeye builds. 

All of this is of course talking about the highest levels of play. A decent deadeye wipes the floor with teams below that but that's less of a balance issue and more of exploiting ignorance.

[Morwath.9817]

Deadeye stopped being popular much before Tempest replaced Guardian.

Usualy "overperforming" specs you see 2x on each team every match at plat & gold level.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Morwath.9817

[Zex Anthon.8673]

58 minutes ago, Morwath.9817 said:

To begin with, do you think Deadeye is overperforming?

Whether it's overperforming or underperforming is irrelevant. No single skill should be this powerful unless it's an elite skill, and even then the cooldown should be doubled.

21 minutes ago, Morwath.9817 said:

Saying skill needs nerf is equal to demanding nerf to spec using it.

If spec isn't overperforming, then nerfing balanced or even underperforming spec is beyond stupid.

Nope. It just pushes those players to rely on less overpowered skills. We shouldn't accept unhealthy skills simply because the spec that uses them is not overperforming in the current meta.

[Morwath.9817]

19 minutes ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

Whether it's overperforming or underperforming is irrelevant. No single skill should be this powerful unless it's an elite skill, and even then the cooldown should be doubled.

Nope. It just pushes those players to rely on less overpowered skills. We shouldn't accept unhealthy skills simply because the spec that uses them is not overperforming in the current meta.

A lot of builds depend on one single skill. Untamed and Druid for example are heavily Maul dependant.

[Zex Anthon.8673]

1 minute ago, Morwath.9817 said:

A lot of builds depend on one single skill. Untamed and Druid for example are heavily Maul dependant.

The difference is Maul isn't overpowered. If Maul also knocked down for 3 seconds, stripped 2 boons, and applied immob, it would be a problem too. Even if those builds were underperforming.

[Morwath.9817]

9 minutes ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

The difference is Maul isn't overpowered. If Maul also knocked down for 3 seconds, stripped 2 boons, and applied immob, it would be a problem too. Even if those builds were underperforming.

Maul has 6,5s CD with GS trait and Hilt Bash resets CD. Meanwhile Binding Shadow has 30s CD, nearly a 1s cast time and requires your target to be marked etc...

[Zex Anthon.8673]

5 minutes ago, Morwath.9817 said:

Maul has 6,5s CD with GS trait and Hilt Bash resets CD. Meanwhile Binding Shadow has 30s CD, nearly a 1s cast time and requires your target to be marked etc...

You are missing the point.... If Binding Shadow was on a class that relies heavily on one skill, which it's not btw, then it would still be a problem. One button press shouldn't do that much.

[Morwath.9817]

27 minutes ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

You are missing the point.... If Binding Shadow was on a class that relies heavily on one skill, which it's not btw, then it would still be a problem. One button press shouldn't do that much.

Its not a problem. Being so much "power" funneled into one ability is huge drawback actualy when it has "long" CD.

Btw I hate heavy burst specs with stealth and ports. I consider them toxic, but Deadeye is far from broken for me.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Morwath.9817

[Zex Anthon.8673]

3 minutes ago, Morwath.9817 said:

Its not a problem. Being so much "power" funneled into one ability is huge drawback actualy when it has "long" CD.

I wouldn't consider 30s a "long" CD. Binding Shadow is obviously an outlier when compared with the other skills in the game. I challenge you to find a skill with as many loaded abilities as it has. But let's compare with similar ranged knockdown skills:

• Bane Signet: Same 30s CD, applies 3s knockdown at 1,200 range. No other effect.
• Drop the Hammer: 15s CD but has a energy cost. applies a 2s knockdown at 1,200 range. No other effect.
• Tremor: 20s CD. applies 3s knockdown at 1,200 range. No other effect.
• Gale: 40s CD. applies 3s knockdown at 900 range. Is unblockable.
• Oppressive Collapse: 25s CD. applies a 2s knockdown at 900 range. Also applies torment and might.

Notice how some skills have stronger or weaker effects, but they compensate for this with either longer CD or shorter range. None of these abilities are as offensive as binding shadow. You could essentially form a new skill from the immob, poison, and boon rip, and it would be as strong or stronger than some utilities out there. Here are some examples:

• Throw Bolas: 4s immob, 1,200 range, 20s count recharge.
• Impairing Daggers: 2s immob, applies poison and slow. 900 range, 25s CD
• Signet of Earth: 3s immob, applies bleeding, 1,200 range, 25s CD
• Sword of Decimation: 4s immob, high damage, 1,200 range, 25s CD
• Rigor Mortis (Bone Fiend): 2s immob, 900 range, 50s CD

When you slot binding shadow you are getting a 2 for 1 deal for utilities.

[Morwath.9817]

1 minute ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

I wouldn't consider 30s a "long" CD. Binding Shadow is obviously an outlier when compared with the other skills in the game. I challenge you to find a skill with as many loaded abilities as it has. But let's compare with similar ranged knockdown skills:

• Bane Signet: Same 30s CD, applies 3s knockdown at 1,200 range. No other effect.
• Drop the Hammer: 15s CD but has a energy cost. applies a 2s knockdown at 1,200 range. No other effect.
• Tremor: 20s CD. applies 3s knockdown at 1,200 range. No other effect.
• Gale: 40s CD. applies 3s knockdown at 900 range. Is unblockable.
• Oppressive Collapse: 25s CD. applies a 2s knockdown at 900 range. Also applies torment and might.

Notice how some skills have stronger or weaker effects, but they compensate for this with either longer CD or shorter range. None of these abilities are as offensive as binding shadow. You could essentially form a new skill from the immob, poison, and boon rip, and it would be as strong or stronger than some utilities out there. Here are some examples:

• Throw Bolas: 4s immob, 1,200 range, 20s count recharge.
• Impairing Daggers: 2s immob, applies poison and slow. 900 range, 25s CD
• Signet of Earth: 3s immob, applies bleeding, 1,200 range, 25s CD
• Sword of Decimation: 4s immob, high damage, 1,200 range, 25s CD
• Rigor Mortis (Bone Fiend): 2s immob, 900 range, 50s CD

When you slot binding shadow you are getting a 2 for 1 deal for utilities.

 

Most of mentioned skills is just... bad. Gale would be bad if it wouldn't be one of 20 weapon skills too.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Morwath.9817

[Zex Anthon.8673]

32 minutes ago, Morwath.9817 said:

 

Most of mentioned skills is just... bad. Gale would be bad if it wouldn't be one of 20 weapon skills too.

So you suggest all skills should be as powerful as binding shadow? Those skills are typical for ranged knockdown because ranged knockdown is insanely good. An unblockable 3s ranged knockdown is not bad either btw.

[Morwath.9817]

5 minutes ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

So you suggest all skills should be as powerful as binding shadow? Those skills are typical for ranged knockdown because ranged knockdown is insanely good. An unblockable 3s ranged knockdown is not bad either btw.

No. I mean each class has its own context, where skills and balanced in relation to each other. 

Gale is good as offhand ranged kd on one of four attunements and Tremor is good on hammer because of 5 CD weapon swap, but both skills could be terribly awful on different weapon skills or completly overpowered with different set of skills. Not sure, if you remember Gale Warriors in GW1 and how exhausted mechanics was born.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Morwath.9817

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, Morwath.9817 said:

A lot of builds depend on one single skill. Untamed and Druid for example are heavily Maul dependant.

 

Druid...dependent on Maul....oh boy.  I'm hoping you mean soulbeast because if I ever see a druid running gs over staff I'm going to lmao (or cry if they are on my team).

I don't think DE is overperforming though.  It can +1 easy enough but it suffers from the same weaknesses mech does in that there's too much range denial now.  Not that DE isn't strong, but even near g3 I rarely ever see them and if I do, I don't think they necessarily turn the tide over any other thief spec.

[Morwath.9817]

14 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Druid...dependent on Maul....oh boy.  I'm hoping you mean soulbeast because if I ever see a druid running gs over staff I'm going to lmao (or cry if they are on my team).

I don't think DE is overperforming though.  It can +1 easy enough but it suffers from the same weaknesses mech does in that there's too much range denial now.  Not that DE isn't strong, but even near g3 I rarely ever see them and if I do, I don't think they necessarily turn the tide over any other thief spec.

Typical Druid is GS/Staff lately.

[Zex Anthon.8673]

16 hours ago, Morwath.9817 said:

No. I mean each class has its own context, where skills and balanced in relation to each other. 

Gale is good as offhand ranged kd on one of four attunements and Tremor is good on hammer because of 5 CD weapon swap, but both skills could be terribly awful on different weapon skills or completly overpowered with different set of skills. Not sure, if you remember Gale Warriors in GW1 and how exhausted mechanics was born.

Alright then. How does the deadeye kit justify needing such an overpowered skill that is essentially two utilities in one?

[Morwath.9817]

16 minutes ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

Alright then. How does the deadeye kit justify needing such an overpowered skill that is essentially two utilities in one?

Being glass cannon without sutain, punished by projectile denial and reflects.