（pve）hammer spellbreaker is meta

[Lighter.5631]

but im wondering why theres no pve berserker version of hammer build

why berserker still uses axes and maces

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Change Blood Reaction to function like Pure Strike from Spellbreaker and it'll exist.

[Lighter.5631]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Change Blood Reaction to function like Pure Strike from Spellbreaker and it'll exist.

so basically berserkers power increase is trash compared to spellbreaker?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

33 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

so basically berserkers power increase is trash compared to spellbreaker?

No, Pure Strike's critical damage increase in lieu of a ferocity boost is just that much more damage, along with Attacker's Insight giving Spellbreaker an easier crit cap. For instance if you had 200% critical damage, Pure Strikes base bonus does not make it 207.5% but 215% and the boonless bonus is 230% instead of 215% (stating this here even though I think you know it, but for others reading about it for the first time).

Or in the case of this setup: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAIO+O/vcA-zRIYRU8HCmHgA28vGK8aBA-e
It has 271% base, but is increased to 291% by the base bonus of Pure Strike, a gain of 20% critical damage, not 7.5%. 

The same setup on Berserker: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAIO+O/tKA-zRIYRU8HCmHgA28vGK8aBA-e
has 275% critical damage, but is not crit capped.

So, Spellbreaker, because of the precision addition to Attacker's Insight is able to crit cap more easily, and because of the way Pure Strike adds to critical strike damage it gets a substantial DPS boost that Bloody Roar's 25% doesn't make up for.

If Berserker is to compete with that, and it should surpass it as a DPS only spec, then Blood Reaction should be updated to work like Pure Strike, where it boosts critical damage and double that increase when in berserk mode, and then Fatal Frenzy would have to add in an extra 300 precision. Bloody Roar's superior damage increase would then pull Berserker ahead of Spellbreaker as DPS.

So, TLDR: Spellbreaker gets more power relevant stats than Berserker, and a much more substantial critical damage boost that does not allow the nominal 25% damage increase from Bloody Roar from Berserker.

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I'll just point out I am happy that they shored up spellbreaker to this extent in PvE as a power DPS, but it comes with built in boon removal, so comes with a dual role.

Berserker has traditionally been pure DPS. There is the option to tank strike dps effectively, but it is still subpar amongst the Especs as a DPS, even it's condi variant, which is warrior's only hope for a condi dps role in PvE is low on the DPS rankings. Simply put, Berserker is not great at anything that it does, and anything that it can be great at relies on other traitlines to fully utilize unlike Spellbreaker or Bladesworn.

[Blackthunder.8679]

16 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Simply put, Berserker is not great at anything that it does

 

It's the most fun to play.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, Blackthunder.8679 said:

 

It's the most fun to play.

While I agree, that is also subjective. 

[Blackthunder.8679]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

While I agree, that is also subjective. 

 

I know just wanted for it to shine a bit.

[Arewn.2368]

Why would we want hammer to be the go-to meta dps weapon on two different especs?

Hammer spellbreaker is tons of fun. I really like it.

But that doesn't mean hammer should also be the dps weapon of choice for Berserker.

Axe/axe and Greatsword fit right in on Berserker. And it gives us more variety between specs if they focus on different weapons. Berserker just needs some more buffs.

 

Also, while the spec as a whole needs a damage buff, imo they should be looking to move damage out of Berserk mode, not add more to it. The damage loss when you drop out of Berserk already presents problems. They either need to rework the mode again, or redistribute some of the damage so that it's available outside of Berserk as well. Honestly the key benefit to Berserk should be the primal bursts. I don't think there should be any damage mods that are exclusive to or enhanced by Berserk.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Arewn.2368

[Lighter.5631]

7 hours ago, Arewn.2368 said:

Why would we want hammer to be the go-to meta dps weapon on two different especs?

 

Hammer spellbreaker is tons of fun. I really like it.

But that doesn't mean hammer should also be the dps weapon of choice for Berserker.

Axe/axe and Greatsword fit right in on Berserker. And it gives us more variety between specs if they focus on different weapons. Berserker just needs some more buffs.

 

Also, imo they should be looking to remove damage from Berserk, not add more to it. The damage loss when you drop out of Berserk already presents problems. They either need to rework the mode again, or redistribute some of the damage so that it's available outside of Berserk as well. Honestly the key benefit to Berserk should be the primal bursts. I don't think there should be any damage mods that are exclusive to or enhanced by Berserk.

the point of the thread is not about want or not

hammer currently does the most damage, yet berserker does not perform with it, it's the question here

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

It does the most because of changes to Fierce Blow vs defiant foes and the inherent stat advantage from Spellbreaker due to certain traits.

[Arewn.2368]

10 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

the point of the thread is not about want or not

hammer currently does the most damage, yet berserker does not perform with it, it's the question here

Ah, well... expanding on what Lan just said;

Hammer's CC skills synergize with SpellBreaker traits, enhancing damage. Namely, Attacker's Insight.

Berserker doesn't have this trait synergy with CC. So hammer's kit as a whole just isn't as valuable for damage on Berserker compared to Spell Breaker, which maintains a fairly hefty damage buff by using CC skills.

Mace was used by spellbreaker in the past for the same reason, but doesn't have the raw damage Hammer now brings with the changes to Fierce Blow. So it wasn't as good for dps.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Arewn.2368

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

35 minutes ago, Arewn.2368 said:

Ah, well... expanding on what Lan just said;

Hammer's CC skills synergize with SpellBreaker traits, enhancing damage. Namely, Attacker's Insight.

Berserker doesn't have this trait synergy with CC. So hammer's kit as a whole just isn't as valuable for damage on Berserker compared to Spell Breaker, which maintains a fairly hefty damage buff by using CC skills.

You are forgetting that Spellbreaker's AI stacks have a ramp time and that a Berserker in PvE can go into Berserk very quickly if they want to and gain +300 power. The difference is that AI gives power, precision, and ferocity AS WELL AS Spellbreaker having a trait that adds a multiplicatively stacking modifier to crit damage itself and the similar trait from Berserker gives an additive modifier to ferocity.

 

[Arewn.2368]

20 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You are forgetting that Spellbreaker's AI stacks have a ramp time and that a Berserker in PvE can go into Berserk very quickly if they want to and gain +300 power. The difference is that AI gives power, precision, and ferocity AS WELL AS Spellbreaker having a trait that adds a multiplicatively stacking modifier to crit damage itself and the similar trait from Berserker gives an additive modifier to ferocity.

 

Yeah, I just meant to highlight where hammer is uniquely synergistic with Spell Breaker.

Berserker receives those benefits regardless of what weapon they take. While on the other hand, one of the main damage buffs that Spell Breaker has access to requires frequent use of CC in order to build and maintain stacks.

In a vacuum, axe/axe and greatsword have higher dps then hammer.

But when you factor in Attacker's Insight, hammer gains an edge on Spell Breaker since CC is needed in order to maintain stacks.

And when you factor in Primal Bursts on Berserker, Decapitate and Arc Divider put axe and greatsword even further ahead of hammer.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Arewn.2368

[Hotride.2187]

I still cant get over how much survival you get with hammer spb, built in. No other power build I've played does so much dps while being so durable. You have to go glass to do a lot of dmg, but hammer defense spb is not glass on glass stats.

Every time I'm on some other power build I regret I'm not on the spb one...

[eXruina.4956]

i've actually ran both core and berserker versions of hammer dps, hammer overall is a bit weaker, but viable enough to clear, its nice to run when you got nothing else to do, honestly, i'm not a fan of it, its sluggish and the big hits aren't really all that big, we got bladesworn afterall, at most its a nice change of pace.

 

the only thing that i might consider taking it for is the built in self-stab, but if you're in a competent group, you won't really need it, i guess that part is the only thing about it that sells for me, great for when you're carrying an unreliable group.