Buff Core (And some elites skills) with this simple change.

[Shao.7236]

All upkeep skills can persist after switching legends for a set amount of time at preferrably 6 seconds and could be based around the energy left for that maximum of 6 seconds before swapping if that's not complicated to implement.

Mixing VH and IO sounds broken but working the numbers which is about not as much as it seems and knowing for certain that would limit that combo to the two legends exclusively, it's not like we'll see it everywhere nor does it omega buff the damage, just adds a bit more to work with.

Core has good synergy and good skills all around, it's ability to multitask like most elites is bad though, not limited to Shiro ED, Jalis is however that one legend who can often have persistent effects while outside the legend (IR and RotGD) however anything else Core doesn't do it like Herald, Renegade or Vindicator with skills that have an impact even after swapping legends, often times if you try to do that you're using up the fresh energy from the other legend.

We knows boons are a thing but boons do the same for everyone, mechanically speaking this applies to all professions, unlike some Revenant elites that their skills actually allow layers of extra damage while doing something else.

As for Herald with Draconic Echo, what does it mean for it? Nothing, you have to use the skills for Draconic Echo to take effect, to benefit from such change you'd have to not consume the facets which is a bad thing to do.

From trying hybrid to pure power/condi as core. It was always the one thing that lacked with the profession whilst the elites just get to do that no problem.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Shao.7236

[MysteryDude.1572]

So dwarf hammers , imp odds , mallyx elite, ventari bubble  keep casting for 6 secs after swap ? If I understood right

Edited March 26, 2023 by MysteryDude.1572

[Yasai.3549]

On 3/23/2023 at 5:37 AM, Shao.7236 said:

All upkeep skills can persist after switching legends for a set amount of time at preferrably 6 seconds and could be based around the energy left for that maximum of 6 seconds before swapping if that's not complicated to implement.

Very abusable confirmed burst damage with Sword 3 > Impossible Odds toggle > Swap to Dwarf and toggle Hammers.
I don't hate it but it seems very broken if it is allowed to interact like this. 

All I think is needed for Core is for their Core mechanic to not literally be a 1 button Energy Refill. Ancient Echo needs to be shaped up better as a more fluid part of Revenant and not just feel like an added on skill "just cos" 

I'm thinking more along the lines of "Reinvoke" where you reinvoke the current Legend, gaining Energy back and triggering Legend Swap and Weapon Swap effects. This adds more layers to Core Revenant in how they can be played and opens up alot of new playstyle possibilities for all game modes. 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Yasai.3549
Wrong skill name

[Shao.7236]

12 hours ago, MysteryDude.1572 said:

So dwarf hammers , imp odds , mallyx elite, ventari bubble  keep casting for 6 secs after swap ? If I understood right

Yep.

2 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Very abusable confirmed burst damage with Sword 3 > Impossible Odds toggle > Swap to Dwarf and toggle Hammers.
I don't hate it but it seems very broken if it is allowed to interact like this. 

All I think is needed for Core is for their Core mechanic to not literally be a 1 button Energy Refill. Draconic Echo needs to be shaped up better as a more fluid part of Revenant and not just feel like an added on skill "just cos" 

I'm thinking more along the lines of "Reinvoke" where you reinvoke the current Legend, gaining Energy back and triggering Legend Swap and Weapon Swap effects. This adds more layers to Core Revenant in how they can be played and opens up alot of new playstyle possibilities for all game modes. 

It may appear broken but you gotta put everything in perspective here;

If you immediately go for upkeep skills after swapping while using any skills, you 100% lose the ability to the stunbreak.

You have to be in close range to benefit from the combo and IO only works on a per hit basis so you're not unlocking some kind of broken numbers by just having Vengeful Hammers do it for you while the situation is already mega risky if you want to use skills with an upkeep skill already taking away your ability to sustain.

Using Stability as Revenant is still limited to the area it pulses so people can just bait you by kitting away from the combo.

Every elites can achieve such ridiculous amounts of damage in the same fashion, most notably renegade and it's all possible while being able to stunbreak. I'd say it would be way more concerning to combine Soulcleave Summit with Impossible Odds but then again you're limited in the area of effect to benefit from it as well as losing the ability to stunbreak if you ever use any other energy skills while using upkeep.

Draconic Echo is no longer just cause since you're allowing players to get it's benefits without having to deal with cooldowns. For example, this means more protection for activating Facet of Chaos because you won't have a 35CD when coming back to Glint.

 

[Yasai.3549]

32 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

Yep.

It may appear broken but you gotta put everything in perspective here;

If you immediately go for upkeep skills after swapping while using any skills, you 100% lose the ability to the stunbreak.

You have to be in close range to benefit from the combo and IO only works on a per hit basis so you're not unlocking some kind of broken numbers by just having Vengeful Hammers do it for you while the situation is already mega risky if you want to use skills with an upkeep skill already taking away your ability to sustain.

Using Stability as Revenant is still limited to the area it pulses so people can just bait you by kitting away from the combo.

Every elites can achieve such ridiculous amounts of damage in the same fashion, most notably renegade and it's all possible while being able to stunbreak. I'd say it would be way more concerning to combine Soulcleave Summit with Impossible Odds but then again you're limited in the area of effect to benefit from it as well as losing the ability to stunbreak if you ever use any other energy skills while using upkeep.

Draconic Echo is no longer just cause since you're allowing players to get it's benefits without having to deal with cooldowns. For example, this means more protection for activating Facet of Chaos because you won't have a 35CD when coming back to Glint.

 

 

I meant Ancient Echo for Core not Draconic Echo, my bad.

 

I'm saying instead of the Core Upkeep thing, I'd prefer Ancient Echo got some more features that encourage thoughtful application.

 

But meh idk how it's even going to be effective. For one, if swapping Legends retain the Upkeep but still cost Energy, it means it can't be turned off, so doesn't that just cause more Energy issues? If it were a trait then I guess it could work but if it's a baked in mechanic alot of people aren't gonna like it.

 

Secondly, not all Upkeeps are equal. Some are very strong and expresses the Legend well, some are not. For example, Ventari's dome doesn't actually help Healing does it? 

 

Personally if the idea here is to expand the Legend's influence off-Legend, it already has enough unique mechanic depth to be an Espec feature, not a Core feature.

 

The Core mechanic of Rev I feel has always been and should always be the Energy System and the Legend Swap system. Every Espec has decided to never play with it at all in favour of a shiny new Legend which we are expected to heavily use, which goes against the Legend Swap Energy refresh gameplay as well as having 2 Legends.

 

At this point, I wonder why we don't just have Core being unique in the way it has 2 Legends, while the other Especs just have 1 Legend but an altered Energy style fit for a solo Legend. After seeing Alliance, I think it's pretty much a Solo Legend capable Spec anyway.

[Shao.7236]

18 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

 

I meant Ancient Echo for Core not Draconic Echo, my bad.

 

I'm saying instead of the Core Upkeep thing, I'd prefer Ancient Echo got some more features that encourage thoughtful application.

 

But meh idk how it's even going to be effective. For one, if swapping Legends retain the Upkeep but still cost Energy, it means it can't be turned off, so doesn't that just cause more Energy issues? If it were a trait then I guess it could work but if it's a baked in mechanic alot of people aren't gonna like it.

 

Secondly, not all Upkeeps are equal. Some are very strong and expresses the Legend well, some are not. For example, Ventari's dome doesn't actually help Healing does it? 

 

Personally if the idea here is to expand the Legend's influence off-Legend, it already has enough unique mechanic depth to be an Espec feature, not a Core feature.

 

The Core mechanic of Rev I feel has always been and should always be the Energy System and the Legend Swap system. Every Espec has decided to never play with it at all in favour of a shiny new Legend which we are expected to heavily use, which goes against the Legend Swap Energy refresh gameplay as well as having 2 Legends.

 

At this point, I wonder why we don't just have Core being unique in the way it has 2 Legends, while the other Especs just have 1 Legend but an altered Energy style fit for a solo Legend. After seeing Alliance, I think it's pretty much a Solo Legend capable Spec anyway.

Don't forget. Upkeep from the last legend won't cost anything to the current. It wouldn't be possible combine both otherwise because the pip cost would exceed -10.

This idea is to fill the lack of multi tasking core presents compared the elites. It's all it really needs to be good.

[Yasai.3549]

4 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Don't forget. Upkeep from the last legend won't cost anything to the current. It wouldn't be possible combine both otherwise because the pip cost would exceed -10.

This idea is to fill the lack of multi tasking core presents compared the elites. It's all it really needs to be good.

Wouldn't really bump core usage vs Elites though. Very few if not no core builds are in usage for most content outside of PvP or WvW where even those are rare, even rarer still for Revenant. That's why such a change doesn't appeal to me. Not really making Core interesting at all, nor really helping Revenant as a whole.

[MysteryDude.1572]

My personal issue with rev is the 45 and 50 energy for a stunbreak on shiro and dwarf. Herald f*cking sucks on shiro stunbreak. While core idk, stunbreak and use ancient echo for another(ISH) elite soon if not running energy trait ..

[MysteryDude.1572]

 Do these effects stop on downstate btw or they persist after stealth ress . Cause reveal after ress if u hit something ..

Ehm, not a bad idea as a whole but I feel ventari/ mallyx gonna stay irrelevant anyway . Feels like this helps shiro dwarf more . Unless core condi rev , pfff I dunno...

[MysteryDude.1572]

Why not add the boons from old f2 in ancient echo btw, on top of existing bonuses.

[Shao.7236]

On 3/26/2023 at 7:20 PM, Yasai.3549 said:

Wouldn't really bump core usage vs Elites though. Very few if not no core builds are in usage for most content outside of PvP or WvW where even those are rare, even rarer still for Revenant. That's why such a change doesn't appeal to me. Not really making Core interesting at all, nor really helping Revenant as a whole.

Nobody cares about core builds in PvE or WvW(PvE power creep non sense with the ability to fight other players), that never came off as a surprise. WvW roaming showcases power creep even more on anything as well. Generally speaking average players go for elites anyway because they feel like they are wasting their money not playing them otherwise, then there's also that sense of progression that can be implied.

In PvP there are motives to play Core builds because of the dynamic needs and decisions to take in what are not just numbers = better but gameplay difference and benefits towards having to outpace someone not just in damage but the consistency of utility that most core specs have but are never truly put at work because elites such as Herald requires so much less brain power to play as a 1+ build rather than being a core duelist/sidenoder.

If you fail to see how such core oriented changes can't make a difference. Nothing ever will, Core legends lack persistent effects that allows the player to put more on top of DPS/utility to which it can't even hybrid properly because of it while Renegade or even Herald get the chance to do so because they have the ability to do as such. Just dropping an AoE effect that can still pump damage/utility while you can put more over it goes a long way and Core deserves that in someway and this is one of the alternatives to it that doesn't break it's initial design as most of Revenant by default needs to be in close range to be effective for anything.

Allowing skills to have more lasting effects is the most glaring issue Core suffers from while all the elites don't.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Shao.7236

[Shao.7236]

On 3/26/2023 at 7:21 PM, MysteryDude.1572 said:

My personal issue with rev is the 45 and 50 energy for a stunbreak on shiro and dwarf. Herald f*cking sucks on shiro stunbreak. While core idk, stunbreak and use ancient echo for another(ISH) elite soon if not running energy trait ..

The energy costs are balanced in PvP.

 

On 3/26/2023 at 7:26 PM, MysteryDude.1572 said:

 Do these effects stop on downstate btw or they persist after stealth ress . Cause reveal after ress if u hit something ..

Ehm, not a bad idea as a whole but I feel ventari/ mallyx gonna stay irrelevant anyway . Feels like this helps shiro dwarf more . Unless core condi rev , pfff I dunno...

You can have downstate Ventari Bubble right now so the downstate complains more or less rests upon the fact that if you want them, use em, if you don't then stop it prior. Mallyx would greatly improve in condition damage because using skills that are on the other legend would provide extra stacks of torments.

This is considering how Jalis is still a more Power oriented legend thus putting EtD on top really adds value because Jalis skills will add torment passively within the AoE.

On 3/26/2023 at 7:28 PM, MysteryDude.1572 said:

Why not add the boons from old f2 in ancient echo btw, on top of existing bonuses.

Because those effects are fine, it doesn't need boons.

Revenant is more about unique effects than boons. The only thing that really needs change is Mallyx having an equivalent to endure pain for conditions with Pain Absorption then have that set on the F2.

Maybe to you the effects are underwhelming but in my experience they make a really chunky difference in outplaying or sustaining.