[PVE] Give alac to scourge and quickness to vindicator

[trunksam.3497]

All this proposition are for PVE, i played a lot of those specs a feels like it would be great to be able to play them on normal group/squad content like fractals, strikes and raids.
giving alac to scourge on "Sand Savant" master trait to make heal scourge a real healer and not a 3rd healer.
Add quickness on "imperial impact" on vindicator master trait to make vindicator heal viable.

(ps: sorry for my english not my main language)

Edited April 21, 2023 by trunksam.3497

[Dadnir.5038]

What kind of drawback do you expect to counter this amount of powercreep?

Those specs have less drawback as healer than most of their counterpart, if you add valuable boons on top what they already do, other healers won't be able to be competitive.

[trunksam.3497]

Other healers get stab/ferocity and eagis, so i think it can be good to try, i don't think it's gonna be a hscg supremacy day to day, vindicator heal isn't play at all (in pve).
For scourge, maybe a nerf on revive potential can be inevitable, like "ritual of life" going from 7% res to a 4 or 5%

Edited April 21, 2023 by trunksam.3497

[trunksam.3497]

And if it's a low amount of alac/quick (so concentration maxed needed) you get less power on hscg.
Going from Marshal's to Harrier's gonna nerf a lot of his power to make it a real healer.

[La Xyl.6492]

I'm all in favor of the change.
I think it would bring more variety in the group and could really improve the global player experience

[Lockon.7624]

I would really like to see that change.
Vindicator deserve to be able to bring more variety in group synergy composition.
As a main Thief i like the Vindi play style and i would like to run with it while helping my group whit alac and/or quick

Scourge Need it too

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, trunksam.3497 said:

And if it's a low amount of alac/quick (so concentration maxed needed) you get less power on hscg.
Going from Marshal's to Harrier's gonna nerf a lot of his power to make it a real healer.

It's not marshall and harrier on which you should set your eyes on when talking about scourge but seraph and plaguedoctor. I do think you underestimate the impact of what you suggest.

[lockon.2517]

Please Anet do it !!!!

[RenneBright.2473]

 

16 minutes ago, Lockon.7624 said:

I would really like to see that change.
Vindicator deserve to be able to bring more variety in group synergy composition.
As a main Thief i like the Vindi play style and i would like to run with it while helping my group whit alac and/or quick

Scourge Need it too

We don't really need 2 Druids specs in terms of res playstyle & alac. Rev already has 2 specs that give alac & quick (Renegade & Herald respectively, which can be both played in either DPS or heal version). You might as well suggest to add quickness to Virtuosos... 
 

Edited April 21, 2023 by RenneBright.2473

[trunksam.3497]

36 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

It's not marshall and harrier on which you should set your eyes on when talking about scourge but seraph and plaguedoctor. I do think you underestimate the impact of what you suggest.

Plaguedoctor is nice as a possible alac dps scourge, gonna be the same as thief specter spec

[trunksam.3497]

26 minutes ago, RenneBright.2473 said:

 

We don't really need 2 Druids specs in terms of res playstyle & alac. Rev already has 2 specs that give alac & quick (Renegade & Herald respectively, which can be both played in either DPS or heal version). You might as well suggest to add quickness to Virtuosos... 
 

so, you don't need 2 healers in the game or 2 tank or 2 buffers because it already exist in the game ?!
Game are made to enjoy your time, have fun and play the way you want.
You can't say no to a option because something similar exist.. 

[RenneBright.2473]

4 minutes ago, trunksam.3497 said:

so, you don't need 2 healers in the game or 2 tank or 2 buffers because it already exist in the game ?!
Game are made to enjoy your time, have fun and play the way you want.
You can't say no to a option because something similar exist.. 

It's not about the role but the playstyle & the boons it provides. You have Search & Rescue on Dudu (+ the same on 1 trait) + CA Glyph of the Stars. Barriers aren't a must for a smooth clear, and even if you give Alac to Scourge, how would you cover the other boons as a healer? Since you don't actually care about support variety, let me tell you what it is: if every support is being played like a Druid or Heal Scourge, that's not diversity, just  pale copying.

You want Heal Scourge Alac to copy Druid, I don't see any point in imitating another spec. You can have fun enjoying Scourge without having heal alac on it, since you're so obsessed with that as a fallacious argument  

Edited April 21, 2023 by RenneBright.2473

[Lockon.7624]

28 minutes ago, RenneBright.2473 said:

 

We don't really need 2 Druids specs in terms of res playstyle & alac. Rev already has 2 specs that give alac & quick (Renegade & Herald respectively, which can be both played in either DPS or heal version). You might as well suggest to add quickness to Virtuosos... 
 

 

You don't .... however there is no holy trinity in GW2 and that's the spirit that me and many people like in this game. 


 

[trunksam.3497]

3 minutes ago, RenneBright.2473 said:

It's not about the role but the playstyle & the boons it provides. You have Search & Rescue on Dudu (+ the same on 1 trait) + CA Glyph of the Stars. Barriers aren't a must for a smooth clear, and even if you give Alac to Scourge, how would you cover the other boons as a healer? Since you don't actually care about support variety, let me tell you what it is: if every support is being played like a Druid or Heal Scourge, that's not diversity, just  pale copying.

You want Heal Scourge Alac to copy Druid, I don't see any point in imitating another spec. You can have fun enjoying Scourge without having heal alac on it, since you're so obsessed with that as a fallacious argument  

If a spec is just a recolor of another, it's not a problem, you can have 2 spec with the exact SAME spell, it's not a problem, just let people choose their color !

[RenneBright.2473]

4 minutes ago, Lockon.7624 said:

 

You don't .... however there is no holy trinity in GW2 and that's the spirit that me and many people like in this game. 


 

That's not a trinity, since Ranger is a medium class, not a light class. I don't think you know what trinity is originally. And Hfb/Heal Herald/Renegade are also a heavy class (the same as warrior), not a light class either xP.

Edited April 21, 2023 by RenneBright.2473

[trunksam.3497]

To make it simple :

Build like dps scourge will not change with the modification i hope for.

+ New harrier's scourge with alac can exist.

+ New plaguedoctor Alac dps scourge.

 

For vindicator :

+ New vindicator heal quick

+ New vindicator devineresse quick dps

 

Herald give a lot of boon + lot of dmg more than the vindi quickdps i hope for, so vindi quickdps aren't really a problem, it's just gonna be a good option to heal vindicator.

I would really like to get alac instead of quick on vindicator to be a good zerk option for alac but vindicator already gives quick to himself and i don't think it's a good idea to make a large modification.

 

With just 2 trait modification we can get 4 new build variety and intersting new gameplay for revenant and necro player.

Even if you think it can be bad (and yes it can absolutly be) it doesn't need much time to dev this and go back with a update just to try out those modification.

[Gibson.4036]

I keep seeing references that heal scourge is absurdly powerful support for a group. Would adding one of the two big support boons make it way overpowered?

I’m not a hardcore player, so my ignorance of these things is huge. Maybe what I just wrote is nonsense?

[trunksam.3497]

20 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I keep seeing references that heal scourge is absurdly powerful support for a group. Would adding one of the two big support boons make it way overpowered?

I’m not a hardcore player, so my ignorance of these things is huge. Maybe what I just wrote is nonsense?

it's a really good support and that's why i suggest testing it, and nerf heal scourge possibility to revive to make it a normal healer.

[soul.9651]

I have a better idea, lets delete aegis, stab, quickness and alac from the game 🙂

[trunksam.3497]

50 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

I have a better idea, lets delete aegis, stab, quickness and alac from the game 🙂

that will never happen, they made a trinity with heal (alac or quick), buffers (alac or quick) and dps.

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hi Everyone,

Just a reminder to keep it civil. I've removed some posts.

Regards.

[RenneBright.2473]

3 hours ago, soul.9651 said:

I have a better idea, lets delete aegis, stab, quickness and alac from the game 🙂

You can't do Deimos CM without Aegis, or Sama/KO CM without stab. Otherwise, I wouldn't mind. That'd still involve a change of the CM mechanics that being said, unlikely to happen.

 

4 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I keep seeing references that heal scourge is absurdly powerful support for a group. Would adding one of the two big support boons make it way overpowered?

I’m not a hardcore player, so my ignorance of these things is huge. Maybe what I just wrote is nonsense?

3 hours ago, trunksam.3497 said:

it's a really good support and that's why i suggest testing it, and nerf heal scourge possibility to revive to make it a normal healer.

HScg is literally barely played at all, besides in training runs or Boneskinner (the latter being because people stay under the boss' red circles, getting instant-downed and expecting to be carried). Forget about the Alac, it doesn't have a solid boons coverage elsewhere as a "potential healer", and it'd be a poor quality plagiarism anyway. And barriers aren't a must for your sub-group sustain.
Likewise, if you have a problem with Snowcrow or any other guild you have a disagreement with, you're more than welcome to debate with them.

Edited April 21, 2023 by RenneBright.2473

[trunksam.3497]

22 minutes ago, RenneBright.2473 said:

You can't do Deimos CM without Aegis, or Sama/KO CM without stab. Otherwise, I wouldn't mind. That'd still involve a change of the CM mechanics that being said, unlikely to happen.

 

HScg is literally barely played at all, besides in training runs or Boneskinner (the latter being because people stay under the boss' red circles, getting instant-downed and expecting to be carried). Forget about the Alac, it doesn't have a solid boons coverage elsewhere as a "potential healer", and it'd be a poor quality plagiarism anyway. And barriers aren't a must for your sub-group sustain.
Likewise, if you have a problem with Snowcrow or any other guild you have a disagreement with, you're more than welcome to debate with them.

you can do Deimos CM without Aegis, you just have to block the explosion, some weapons got block capacity, you can evade every attack of sama same for KO CM.

Hscg is good for new player and player starting raid/strikes/fractals, if you want to play just the "meta" then you have a problem.

You can clear every content without being "meta" you can even do content without a full party/squad. You don't need to play the most powerful classe to win.

Edited April 21, 2023 by trunksam.3497

[trunksam.3497]

30 minutes ago, RenneBright.2473 said:

HScg is literally barely played at all, besides in training runs or Boneskinner (the latter being because people stay under the boss' red circles, getting instant-downed and expecting to be carried). Forget about the Alac, it doesn't have a solid boons coverage elsewhere as a "potential healer", and it'd be a poor quality plagiarism anyway. And barriers aren't a must for your sub-group sustain.

And if it's this bad, why do you complain about a UP ?

[Obtena.7952]

I would expect absolutely none of these suggestions to happen because there is little motivation for Anet to expand the pool of specs in a role, especially if it requires the spec to be re-designed.