Are thieves a problem?

[Bazsi.2734]

7 minutes ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

How does virt hold up against a thief? I need to unlock it still so haven't played one...

It entirely depends on how you build it, and how well you play it. Virtuso has the potential to be basicly unkillable. At the cost of having a weaker burst and be unable to contest capture points, but the spec has distorts/aegisspam for days. 

But don't expect to become a survival god just for unlocking the spec. You still have to learn how to play it. Just as good thieves are basicly unkillable, yet newbies die in 2 hits. It will be the same for you with virtuoso.

[Deadmoose.6594]

13 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

I have yet to see a single thief on any spec, being cabable of facetanking damage without ever pressing the dodge button....I have yet have too see a single thief blocking, evading damage for what feels like a kittening eternity.....I have yet have too see a single thief going around spamming 111111 on their semi invincible condi bunker spec ..without you can guess, using that dodge button even once...I have yet to see a single thief bursting down while being invulnerable to all sources of damage....I have yet to see a single thief hiding behind a column while a tanky golem deals more dmg than a glass spec.....I have yet to see a single thief going around with their permaboon BS.

Never thought I'd see this day as I hate thieves as much as the next guy but...before I see another thief nerf, I want to see the complete stomping and destruction of these blocking, distortion, heal, evasions, condi spamming abusing specs....to see another thief nerf before any of the current atrocities is properly addressed...would be the end

yet all of those specs you just complained about can eventually be killed. Thief will just invis and run off, so unkillable > all of those annoying things you mentioned. Invis in the game should not = invincible, I think that's what it comes down to. Aoe, whiffing attacks should all be able to hit an invis player and reveal them. If you're invis and you can't handle running around someone to mitigate someone swinging a sword around than...that's on you.

[senftube.6081]

39 minutes ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

yet all of those specs you just complained about can eventually be killed. Thief will just invis and run off, so unkillable > all of those annoying things you mentioned. Invis in the game should not = invincible, I think that's what it comes down to. Aoe, whiffing attacks should all be able to hit an invis player and reveal them. If you're invis and you can't handle running around someone to mitigate someone swinging a sword around than...that's on you.

Reveal on Hit would be complete OP. The Game is full with AoE Attacks. 

[Bazsi.2734]

1 hour ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

yet all of those specs you just complained about can eventually be killed. Thief will just invis and run off, so unkillable > all of those annoying things you mentioned. Invis in the game should not = invincible, I think that's what it comes down to. Aoe, whiffing attacks should all be able to hit an invis player and reveal them. If you're invis and you can't handle running around someone to mitigate someone swinging a sword around than...that's on you.

Yeah you are definitely still new for having such ideas... try playing thief for a while. You'll see why this is absolutely not feasible. 

The game is full with AoE-s that pulse damage. There are also ricocheting projectiles, AoE attacks that don't even have any kind of indicators etc... it is impossible to get into melee range in teamfights without getting hit by all kinds of stuff. If you turn everything in this game into a reveal, stealth becomes pointless.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Bazsi.2734

[Deadmoose.6594]

35 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Yeah you are definitely still new for having such ideas... try playing thief for a while. You'll see why this is absolutely not feasible. 

The game is full with AoE-s that pulse damage. There are also ricocheting projectiles, AoE attacks that don't even have any kind of indicators etc... it is impossible to get into melee range in teamfights without getting hit by all kinds of stuff. If you turn everything in this game into a reveal, stealth becomes pointless.

I wouldn't say I'm new, I just don't play thief.

What about melee 1 attacks vs invis instead of aoe? I mean...what is the realism logic behind invis=invincible? No where ever does invis=invinc.

The point is there should be some kind of counter to reveal an invis player, not just thieves.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

17 minutes ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

I wouldn't say I'm new, I just don't play thief.

What about melee 1 attacks vs invis instead of aoe? I mean...what is the realism logic behind invis=invincible? No where ever does invis=invinc.

The point is there should be some kind of counter to reveal an invis player, not just thieves.

I feel like if you made a thief and played it for about an hour in pvp, you not only would have an idea of how they want to fight in stealth, but also an understanding of the skill requirement for managing thieves in pvp that would lead to more reasonable suggestions than what you're proposing right now. 

[Bazsi.2734]

41 minutes ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

I wouldn't say I'm new, I just don't play thief.

What about melee 1 attacks vs invis instead of aoe? I mean...what is the realism logic behind invis=invincible? No where ever does invis=invinc.

The point is there should be some kind of counter to reveal an invis player, not just thieves.

You are a "mesmer player" who haven't even unlocked all of mesmer yet, compared to multiclassing veterans you are very new. It's not an bad thing, I wish I was new sometimes. Experiencing this game for the first few months was pretty awesome.

Also invisibility has nothing to do with invincibility. You can easily kill stealthed players just by throwing non-targeted AoE-s and aimed attacks towards them. Try literally anything other than mesmer and you'll have access to those.

And counters to reveal an invisible player:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lock_On
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gaze_of_Darkness
It's already in the game. But it's very limited and for a good reason(there are much more skills that apply reveal to someone who's actually visible though). If everyone had access to an easy to use reveal, stealth would be meaningless.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Bazsi.2734

[Terrorhuz.4695]

14 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

blinds, a 50/50 shot at glancing, and 3 dodges wont protect 11k hp. Try it.

> implying I didn't

Come on, man. Don't insult me. S\D daredevil is pretty much untouchable. When you say "defenseless" I think of berserker with rifle, which has literally nothing other than endure pain.

4 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

It can't be worst than mesmers crying about the lack of distortion first with chronos and then with virtuouso...similar mindset 

Were it on me, chronomancer wouldn't have distortion in any way, shape or form. Same as virtuoso. You're right, but you're preaching to the choir.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

12 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

> implying I didn't

Come on, man. Don't insult me.

I'm calling your bluff.

Did you have success? What weapon set did you run? How annoying did you have to play?

I haven't met a single player that actually tried to play competently on thief that also came to the conclusion that thieves can play stealthless in pvp without being deleted by most professions.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Terrorhuz.4695]

23 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I'm calling your bluff.

Did you have success? What weapon set did you run? How annoying did you have to play?

I haven't met a single player that actually tried to play competently on thief that also came to the conclusion that thieves can play stealthless in pvp. 

Tried dagger\dagger and spamming 3 with a condi build, it was absolutely meme-tier but I couldn't die, then there's s\d which -again- can't die because you can port everywhere (and unlike d\d it DOES work, assuming you know what your'e doing). I'm searching for some inhouse tournament streamed by Boyce, you could see some thief bullying Demolisher real bad just with headshot and sb2.

I have a thief friend who's going to stalk this thread sooner or later and man I'm going to get scolded 4 real LMAO

Edited May 30, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

24 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Tried dagger\dagger and spamming 3 with a condi build, it was absolutely meme-tier but I couldn't die, then there's s\d which -again- can't die because you can port everywhere (and unlike d\d it DOES work, assuming you know what your'e doing).

You trolling me or-

I'm gonna just temper my response because I feel like these options not even making it into significant tiers of metabattle despite being unkillable is more than enough argument for your claim. If they were unkillable, even if they were unviable for conquest, you'd see them run (as you see virtuoso run despite it being garbo for conquest.)

Death blossom takes up a third of your initiative to use once. Most competent players will just not allow you to death blossom and interrupt you when you land.  Infiltrator chain cant "port everywhere". It ports between two places, and tells your opponent where the second place is (with the first being wherever the opponent is.)

Can you really look at the current game state and all that players are capable of throwing at you, what you know mesmer in particular is capable of doing (not singling it out, just I know you have experience here),

then look at thief and say "it has a half second, 130 range evade that you can press 3 times in a row if you really wanna, literally unkillable" or "infiltrator's return, unkillable" (Despite sword barely doing any damage, but that's another topic). If your opinion is such, distortion must be a war crime. 

Even if both of these were viable, is that the playstyle you'd want to deal with? endless porting back and forth and 3 spam? 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

34 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I have a thief friend who's going to stalk this thread sooner or later and man I'm going to get scolded 4 real LMAO

Tbh you should be scolded for proposing d/d 3 evade spam like it's 2014

[Deadmoose.6594]

3 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

You are a "mesmer player" who haven't even unlocked all of mesmer yet, compared to multiclassing veterans you are very new. It's not an bad thing, I wish I was new sometimes. Experiencing this game for the first few months was pretty awesome.

Also invisibility has nothing to do with invincibility. You can easily kill stealthed players just by throwing non-targeted AoE-s and aimed attacks towards them. Try literally anything other than mesmer and you'll have access to those.

And counters to reveal an invisible player:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lock_On
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gaze_of_Darkness
It's already in the game. But it's very limited and for a good reason(there are much more skills that apply reveal to someone who's actually visible though). If everyone had access to an easy to use reveal, stealth would be meaningless.

Regardless, I've played 618 matches total so not having unlocked virt doesn't mean anything.

[Bazsi.2734]

18 minutes ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

Regardless, I've played 618 matches total so not having unlocked virt doesn't mean anything.

Out of all the things I've said, that's the part you react to... "It doesn't matter that I don't know what some mesmer e-spec is or does, because I played a lot of games not knowing that stuff". Solid point, very good. Makes me feel really good about all the rest I've typed out, it definitely helped you improve.