New to Thief - some questions

[Dreddo.9865]

Hello all, new to the class. I come from main necro, trying to learn thief and would like to ask dedicated thief players some questions.

I understand thief has a relatively low HP pool, low armor too so he relies in mobility, dodges, stealth, interrupts, blinds to survive. The class is then compensated with high burst damage. So far so good. I try to understand the specializations mostly core ones for start. For example in necro class there is the Soul Reaping spec which is almost mandatory as it enhances the shroud mechanic - is there any 'mandatory' spec trait line for thief?

Then what is considered a 'defensive spec trait line' for thief?
(Like Warrior for example has defense).

Thank you.

[Doggie.3184]

Trickery is the nearly mandatory traitline and provides both offense and defense with it's boons and increased initiative. 

Critical Strikes can swap between damage and survival too with No Quarter/Invigorating Precision.

[Lightsbane.9012]

if you're looking for a defensive build, i recommend sword and dagger for weapons, acro/trickery/critical strikes for trait lines. more dodges=more defense.  there's also a trait that gives you vigor on using a heal skill in the acrobatics trait line as well.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

PVE-wise, there isn't a mandatory core trait line.  In PVP/WvW it is Trickery, as somebody already explained.  To give a breakdown of each:

• Deadly Arts is a a hybrid of condition and strike damage.  It is used on all PVE builds as a universal damage bonus.
• Critical Strike focuses on giving personal boons and enhancing both crit chance and crit damage.  Taken on all PVE strike damage builds.
• Shadow Arts is focused on enhancing stealth, and healing.  It is a more defensive set that sees use in PvP/WvW.
• Acrobatics is focused on enhancing dodging and giving vigor.  It is largely unused, considered the weakest trait line.
• Trickery enhances Steal, gives more initiative, and also gives more condition damage.  Near staple in PvP/WvW, but also used on PVE condition builds.

 

[bluehead.9842]

13 hours ago, Dreddo.9865 said:

The class is then compensated with high burst damage

more like compensated with "mediocre burst damage" 😇

I usually play on WvW using DE/DD, 

Shadow Arts -> this is my mandatory traits for surviving, cc cleans and super speed for hit & run 

Critical Strike/Trickery -> this is main trait for damage, if you need more initiative playstyle use trickery, if need upping critical then use critical strike 

Acrobatics -> I dont have any reason to use this trait, its not as effective as shadow arts for surviving, and its not as effective as CS/Trickery for damage 
Deadly Arts -> I use this trait for condi dagger build in PVE, but Executioner is also good if play as "finisher" in WvW zerg, lets clean up the downed ! 

[Dreddo.9865]

Thank you all for your replies they have been really helpful. This is the build I am playing based on what I understood when I started the class - aimed for an open world survivability build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaABgqxrlNwEZXsNGJW2SbrTA-zRJYihvQ6rAqICyOFkaAA-e

Based on your comments I will revise it and that's my plan, playing, understanding the various traits and adapting. My goal is to learn how each of the traits work, synergies of traits (would appreciate your input), traits and weapons,  etc. Ideally I want to end up with a balanced core build for full map exploration so that I get used with the class. Then I hope I manage to get into sPvP which I know it's a tough mode for thief class.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Dreddo.9865

[SlayerXX.7138]

7 hours ago, Dreddo.9865 said:

Thank you all for your replies they have been really helpful. This is the build I am playing based on what I understood when I started the class - aimed for an open world survivability build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaABgqxrlNwEZXsNGJW2SbrTA-zRJYihvQ6rAqICyOFkaAA-e

Acrobatics traitline is not good. Not good in any mode(there may be some edge case another thief will point out), outclassed by everything. Its a common trap. Speaking of common traps: Deathly arts is often taken in Power builds, a big part of that is exposed weakness, which increases Strike damage by 2% for each condition on the foe. Not that good if you are on your own. Busted if you hit a worldboss with 10+ condition. That is a problem with power thief in PvE, a lot of Stacking modifier means damage does fall of quick if you are not all in.

7 hours ago, Dreddo.9865 said:

synergies of traits

In Critical Strike you can take no Quarter(fury on crit 2sec ICD(internal Cooldown)) and Assassin fury(might each time you get fury 2sec ICD) providing you with a ton of Might.

8 hours ago, Dreddo.9865 said:

Ideally I want to end up with a balanced core build for full map exploration so that I get used with the class.

Core celestial would be something quit balanced if you can get your hand on celestial gear. Shadow art is the best defensive traitline in PvE because you have on demand stealth in the form of Dagger 5. Providing plenty of sustain. If you want to tinker with your own build I highly suggest changing acrobatic for something else.

 

 

 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

The irony to Thief is that it works best when it is imbalanced.  If you want to make a much more durable power thief, there's only two steps that you'll need to follow.

1. Equip Signet of Malice
2. In Critical Strikes, Equip Invigorating Precision.

Invigorating precision converts 4%/6% of outgoing critical damage into healing.  Because the amount of healing you get is directly proportional to the amount of damage you do, it means that the more durable way to build yourself is to go for as much damage as possible.  That 6% might not seem like much, but you'll be doing 20k+ damage per second from auto attacks alone when you're fully buffed up.  That's like healing 1200 health per second for every enemy that you're hitting.  When wandering around the overworld you won't get numbers as high (except on world bosses).

Back when I was leveling thief, prior to expansions, I would use something like this.  Updated with Marauder gear, but back in the day I used Berserker.  Surviving with it was a pretty simple: use black powder, then alternate between auto attack and pistol whips until the enemy is dead.  Anything without a defiance bar will be largely helpless.  When things get too hot, swap to main-hand pistol and spam unload on the enemy.  Sword 2 will let me cleanse conditions, Sword 3 lets me attack and evade at the same time, and Pistol 4 lets me shred breakbars.  Sword has high auto attack damage and inflicts weakness, so it is a viable strategy to just auto with the sword in many circumstances.  Sword also cleaves for 3 instead of 2 like the dagger does.  The utilities chosen here are largely up to preference.  Know that the thief has a lot of good utilities, most of them defensive.

Between the blinds, the evades, the weakness, and the self-healing from malice and invigorating precision this build is surprisingly durable.  The enemies die really fast, too, so it is good at saving time and earning money.