idpersona.3810 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: Thread summary: Anet: Here is a way to get a limitless box of chocolate chip cookies, with all kinds of different chocolate chips. Chocolate Chip Cookie Aficionados: 🖐️🍪🖐️ Anet: We are now taking the chocolate chips out of cookies, you will be able to gain the chocolate chips in our new system. Chocolate Chip Cookie Aficionados: 😡 your new system is cool but you promised us that we would have a limitless box of chocolate chip cookies, please make sure we still have our chips included in limitless box of cookies and not a separate thing that we then have to go reattain. 🤡: You still have a box of limitless cookies, you haven't lost anything. CCCA: No, we had a box of limitless chocolate chip cookies, the chocolate chips themselves being part of the most important part of having that box of limitless chocolate chip cookies and are instead being given back a limitless box of cookies without chocolate chips. 🤡: You still have cookies you haven't lost anything. CCCA: They took our chips. Give us back our chips. 🤡: 🤡 CCCA: 😡 repeat. This is amazing. Thank you for the laugh. 13 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: Sorry but they aren’t taking away your chocolate chips you still get 6 bonuses on runes and the Relic Bonuses aren’t the same bonuses that runes currently have so they aren’t repackaging your chocolate chips separately.. again you can’t even come up with a decent analogy or argument. To explain: the runes are the cookies. The 6th ability (the important one) is the chocolate chips. Directly quoted from the Combat page: "For example, the Relic of the Trooper’s effect is identical to the previous sixth-tier Trooper rune effect: “Remove a condition from each affected ally after using a shout skill.” Emphasis mine. I don't know why you keep saying the Relic bonuses aren't the same bonuses. Edited July 12, 2023 by idpersona.3810 4 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: They are complaining about the rebalance claiming it as the basis of losing something, if they aren’t losing something if Relics weren’t mentioned then they aren’t losing something with the information of Relics…. Make a dps build today. Have the 6th effect rework, it doesn't matter, as mentioned over and over again the complaint isn't about "some balance changes". It remains being the same well rounded dps build. Make the same dps build in SotO without buying relics. You can't? So... why is that? Is it because runes retain their functionality? Or is it literally because part of their functionality will be offloaded into another item? 🤔 Edited July 12, 2023 by Sobx.1758 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said: This is amazing. Thank you for the laugh. To explain: the runes are the cookies. The 6th ability (the important one) is the chocolate chips. Directly quoted from the Combat page: "For example, the Relic of the Trooper’s effect is identical to the previous sixth-tier Trooper rune effect: “Remove a condition from each affected ally after using a shout skill.” Emphasis mine. I don't know why you keep saying the Relic bonuses aren't the same bonuses. Again go re read the comment you quoted me in and you can see why you’re wrong and the analogy is horrible 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 7 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: Make a dps build today. Have the 6th effect rework, it doesn't matter, as mentioned over and over again the complaint isn't about "some balance changes". It remains being the same well rounded dps build. Make the same dps build in SotO without buying relics. You can't? So... why is that? Is it because runes retain their functionality? Or is it literally because part of their functionality will be offloaded into another item? 🤔 All kinds of balance changes change dps that’s a known constant of MMOs lmao any balance pass on any part of character builds will change dps numbers even without this change that happened with the last balance pass… smh again your arguments are severely lacking and don’t apply. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idpersona.3810 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 29 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: Sorry but they aren’t taking away your chocolate chips you still get 6 bonuses on runes and the Relic Bonuses aren’t the same bonuses that runes currently have so they aren’t repackaging your chocolate chips separately.. again you can’t even come up with a decent analogy or argument. 18 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said: To explain: the runes are the cookies. The 6th ability (the important one) is the chocolate chips. Directly quoted from the Combat page: "For example, the Relic of the Trooper’s effect is identical to the previous sixth-tier Trooper rune effect: “Remove a condition from each affected ally after using a shout skill.” Emphasis mine. I don't know why you keep saying the Relic bonuses aren't the same bonuses. 12 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: Again go re read the comment you quoted me in and you can see why you’re wrong and the analogy is horrible Thank you for the suggestion. I did go back and reread them. I don't see why I'm wrong and this analogy is horrible. Also, in the quotes above I underlined 2 bits that I'd like your take on since they go directly against part of what you're saying. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 minute ago, idpersona.3810 said: Thank you for the suggestion. I did go back and reread them. I don't see why I'm wrong and this analogy is horrible. Also, in the quotes above I underlined 2 bits that I'd like your take on since they go directly against part of what you're saying. Your lack of understanding means I’m wrong or means you’re right…. Just saying between 5+ of you can’t come up with a coherent argument back by facts 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: All kinds of balance changes change dps that’s a known constant of MMOs lmao any balance pass on any part of character builds will change dps numbers even without this change that happened with the last balance pass… smh again your arguments are severely lacking and don’t apply. At no point I was talking about any "dps NUMBERS", I even literally spelled out this is not about just balance changes. Re-read what I wrote with understanding and finally comment on what you're quoting. Edited July 12, 2023 by Sobx.1758 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo.3725 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: Your lack of understanding means I’m wrong or means you’re right…. Just saying between 5+ of you can’t come up with a coherent argument back by facts So remember that hill you are standing on for ANET that Runes are not losing functionality: "regardless of expansion ownership will cover the functionality of popular sixth-tier rune bonuses." Quoted directly from rune introductions. Relics. are. replacing. 6th. tier. rune. bonuses.https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/combat-in-guild-wars-2-secrets-of-the-obscure/ Edited July 12, 2023 by Echo.3725 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said: At no point I was talking about any "dps VALUE", I even literally spelled out this is not about just balance changes. Re-read what I wrote with understanding and finally comment on what you're quoting. My point still stands change dps value to dps build, any balance change can and always affects the changed builds. Ie last patch people running LI power signet Reaper build can’t run power signet build Reaper as it was because the nature of balance changes.. again my point still stands 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: My point still stands change dps value to dps build, any balance change can and always affects the changed builds. Ie last patch people running LI power signet Reaper build can’t run power signet build Reaper as it was because the nature of balance changes.. again my point still stands "your point stands"? The point is you didn't respond to what I wrote but instead changed "dps build" into a completely different meaning of "dps numbers". Re-read my post with understanding and respond to what you're quoting instead of dodging just to say "the point stands": 37 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: Make a dps build today. Have the 6th effect rework, it doesn't matter, as mentioned over and over again the complaint isn't about "some balance changes". It remains being the same well rounded dps build. Make the same dps build in SotO without buying relics. You can't? So... why is that? Is it because runes retain their functionality? Or is it literally because part of their functionality will be offloaded into another item? 🤔 Of course anything can "stand" if you refuse to address what's being said. But that doesn't change how much you're intentionaly dodging in this thread. Edited July 12, 2023 by Sobx.1758 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Echo.3725 said: So remember that hill you are standing on for ANET that Runes are not losing functionality: "regardless of expansion ownership will cover the functionality of popular sixth-tier rune bonuses." Quoted directly from rune introductions. Relics. are. replacing. 6th. tier. rune. bonuses.https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/combat-in-guild-wars-2-secrets-of-the-obscure/ Will cover not replace not take away from, and again the whole argument of people whining for things is Legendary Runes will lose their Funtion which isn’t happening Runes are more than just the current 6th tier bonus.. Edited July 12, 2023 by BlaqueFyre.5678 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: "your point stands"? The point is you didn't respond to what I wrote but instead changed "dps build" into a completely different meaning of "dps numbers". Re-read my post with understanding and respond to what you're quoting instead of dodging just to say "the point stands": Of course anything can "stand" if you refuse to address what's being said. But that doesn't change how much you're intentionaly dodging in this thread. I didn’t ignore anything, you just don’t understand how balance works any balance change will change builds… Edited July 12, 2023 by BlaqueFyre.5678 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idpersona.3810 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 11 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: Your lack of understanding means I’m wrong or means you’re right…. Just saying between 5+ of you can’t come up with a coherent argument back by facts It's easy to be "right" when you ignore all arguments against. 44 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: Sorry but they aren’t taking away your chocolate chips you still get 6 bonuses on runes and the Relic Bonuses aren’t the same bonuses that runes currently have so they aren’t repackaging your chocolate chips separately.. again you can’t even come up with a decent analogy or argument. 33 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said: Directly quoted from the Combat page: "For example, the Relic of the Trooper’s effect is identical to the previous sixth-tier Trooper rune effect: “Remove a condition from each affected ally after using a shout skill.” Emphasis mine. I don't know why you keep saying the Relic bonuses aren't the same bonuses. Asking about the underlined parts again. Does "same bonuses" =/= "identical"? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Grey.8135 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 from my point of view people are mixing up functionality and value. functionality: remains. you can still choose between all runes available. value: the value of a full set of rune changes massively. the bonus of the sixth rune is why people are using a complete set of runes. so having six runes of a kind is by far more valuable than having just five of a kind and another. so this change is no change in functionality, but a massive devaluation of a full set of legendary runes. no one bothers to craft just five legendary runes if he cannot have the special (non stat) bonus from the sixth. so it‘s not the value of a single rune that matters but that of a full set of six. remember: worth is what people think about something. it‘s nothing fixed. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: I didn’t ignore anything, you just don’t understand how balance works any balance change will change builds… wow, dude. Pretty sure I already told you it's not about "builds changing", why are you still repeating this when nobody here complains about that? 8 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: Ie last patch people running LI power signet Reaper build can’t run power signet build Reaper as it was because the nature of balance changes.. again my point still stands What kind of "point" is this supposed to be in relation to this thread anyways? If someone wants to swap a skill on reaper build, they just swap a build. If someone wants to keep a rune effect -that will still be in the game- after the change, they'll need to acquire relics. And, again, it's not because runes retain their utility, it's beacuse they don't and that utility is offloaded into a ""new item"". Edited July 12, 2023 by Sobx.1758 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: wow, dude. What kind of "point" is this supposed to be in relation to this thread anyways? If someone wants to swap a skill on reaper build, they just swap a build. If someone wants to keep a rune effect -that will still be in the game- after the change, they'll need to acquire relics. And, again, it's not because runes retain their utility, it's beacuse they don't and that utility is offloaded into a ""new item"". The rune effect won’t be in the game after the change… we already know the Relic bonuses are different from the Rune bonuses, so if they bonus is different that means… omg it’s not the same thing Rune of the Thief 6th bonus and Relic of the Thief Bonus are not the same they are completely different bonuses so… Edited July 12, 2023 by BlaqueFyre.5678 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: The rune effect won’t be in the game after the change… we already know the Relic bonuses are different from the Rune bonuses, so if they bonus is different that means… omg it’s not the same thing Rune effects will be in the game and they'll be offloaded into new items: relics. Anet literally told us that. Do you need to see that quote again? We already know SOME will be different and some will be the same because anet literally told us that. You're wrong and you just keep digging yourself deeper into that nonsense. Edited July 12, 2023 by Sobx.1758 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said: Rune effects will be in the game and they'll be offloaded into new items: relics. Anet literally told us that. Do you need to see that quote again? They aren’t the same bonuses they said relics bonuses will cover current 6th rune bonuses not that they are rune 6th bonuses and not that they are replacing them… reading comprehension Edited July 12, 2023 by BlaqueFyre.5678 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo.3725 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 6 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: Will cover not replace not take away from "August 22, the sixth tier of each rune set will instead complete the stat bonuses associated with that rune set, and the additional special effects or conditional bonuses will be removed entirely." "Starting on August 22, everyone’s build will include a relic slot that becomes usable at level 60. Many of the relics that are available to players regardless of expansion ownership will cover the functionality of popular sixth-tier rune bonuses." 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: They aren’t the same bonuses they said relics bonuses will cover current 6th rune bonuses not that they are rune 6th bonuses… reading comprehension Anet literally tells us they're splitting the special effects into new items, here: Quote But fear not—special bonus effects in combat aren’t just going away as a category! We’ve split them off into their own build component They also tell us some will be the same and some will be rebalanced, here: Quote Many of the relics that are available to players regardless of expansion ownership will cover the functionality of popular sixth-tier rune bonuses. For example, the Relic of the Trooper’s effect is identical to the previous sixth-tier Trooper rune effect: “Remove a condition from each affected ally after using a shout skill.” Other core relics have an updated effect compared to the sixth-tier rune they used to be associated with, like the Relic of the Thief: “Upon striking an enemy with a weapon skill that has a cooldown or resource cost, gain 1% strike damage for 6 seconds, up to a maximum of 5 stacks, and refresh duration of all stacks to 6 seconds.” Again, you're clearly wrong here and you just keep digging yourself deeper. Edited July 12, 2023 by Sobx.1758 5 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Just now, Echo.3725 said: "August 22, the sixth tier of each rune set will instead complete the stat bonuses associated with that rune set, and the additional special effects or conditional bonuses will be removed entirely." "Starting on August 22, everyone’s build will include a relic slot that becomes usable at level 60. Many of the relics that are available to players regardless of expansion ownership will cover the functionality of popular sixth-tier rune bonuses." Doesn’t say Relics are replacing the Rune 6th bonus it clearly states the Rune 6th bonus is being kept just changed to a stat bonus, reading comprehension shows this. so Runes will still have 6th bonuses and the Relics will have bonuses that aren’t the same as current Rune 6th bonuses. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: But I’m not wrong here, you still can’t show the function of Legendary Runes are getting taken away, D... Did you read what you've quoted? Quote But fear not—special bonus effects in combat aren’t just going away as a category! We’ve split them off into their own build component Anet literally tells you they're splitting rune effects and offload them into relics as a separate category and you... somehow... still want to claim I "can't show the function of legendary runes is getting taken away"? Anet literally told us that. What do you think "splitting" means? Dude, just... what are you doing? 🤨 Edited July 12, 2023 by Sobx.1758 5 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said: D... Did you read what you've quoted? Anet literally tells you they're splitting rune effects and offload them into relics as a separate category and you... somehow... still want to claim I "can't show the function of legendary runes is getting taken away"? Anet literally told us that. What do you think "splitting" means? Dude, just... what are you doing? 🤨 Again Legendary runes have 1 function and 1 function only to swap between superior runes that function is staying the game, how much simpler can it get? runes are keeping 6/6 bonuses the relic bonuses aren’t the same as rune bonuses if they were Relic of the Thief would have the same Bonus as Rune of the Thief but they don’t… Runes aren’t just their 6th Bonus slot that is one small part of the whole thing, just like Guardian isn’t just one trait out of its whole class or 1 skill out of its whole class… so again the Legendary Runes aren’t losing their singular functionality 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: Again Legendary runes have 1 function and 1 function only to swap between superior runes that function is staying the game, how much simpler can it get? runes are keeping 6/6 bonuses the relic bonuses aren’t the same as rune bonuses if they were Relic of the Thief would have the same Bonus as Rune of the Thief but they don’t… Again, anet literally makes a clear distinction between "simple stat bonuses" and "special bonuses", the special bonuses are taken away and offloaded into new items. That's the loss of functionality and it was explained to you over and over again. Also as already said, people crafted legendary runes to round up their full legendary builds. Now it won't be possible because meaningful part of legendary runes is being cut off and to get the same full build, the players will need to acquire additional items. And, again, it's not because the functionality remained the same. I wonder why you still refuse to address what anet themselves said just to repeat your "count to 6" shtick. I think at this point it's clear -to everyone, including yourself- what you're doing and we're done here. No point in repeating things for 10 pages which you intentionally keep ignoring anyways. 7 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: Runes aren’t just their 6th Bonus slot You already tried making that ""argument"" many pages ago and just like it was pointed out there, I can only repeat that nobody said it is, so this is in no way responding to anything written here. Such a bad strawman attempt. Edited July 12, 2023 by Sobx.1758 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idpersona.3810 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: so Runes will still have 6th bonuses and the Relics will have bonuses that aren’t the same as current Rune 6th bonuses. Quote For example, the Relic of the Trooper’s effect is identical to the previous sixth-tier Trooper rune effect: “Remove a condition from each affected ally after using a shout skill.” Underline mine: Nothing? 16 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: I get it some people will cry and whine for free things because they feel entitled and special Are you broken? You keep repeating this bit occasionally. And now it's even out of context. Edit: this bit is snarky, so go ahead and ignore it. I am still curious about the quotes above though. Edited July 12, 2023 by idpersona.3810 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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